What do you think is the most creatively bereft genre in gaming today?

briany

I'd have to go with first person shooters. Playing Bioshock Infinite made me think that while it looks pretty, it is totally vapid in terms of game play. I've had so much more fun playing Tetris and Papers, Please. Can anyone think of an even worse off genre at the moment for innovation?.

COYVB

It's cyclical. See platformers a few decades back. The most popular genre of the time is milked death with little innovation before someone does something great elsewhere and the bandwagon shifts

Fnz

In every genre that gets bashed in this thread, there are probably many innovative titles that fly under the radar.

Superhot and Receiver being examples in the case of FPS games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYAUlPMqnKk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCThInmzjXw

Pushtrak

briany wrote: »

I'd have to go with first person shooters. Playing Bioshock Infinite made me think that while it looks pretty, it is totally vapid in terms of game play.

BioShock Infinite isn't great in terms of shooting mechanics, for instance, but to use it as an example of something that is creatively bereft? Ni No Kuni has a similar malaise in terms of combat but I wouldn't by any measure call it a game that is creatively bereft. It ain't gameplay mechanics that marks The Last of Us as such a creative accomplishment.

I don't really think I can say any genre is creatively bereft to be honest. The closest I'd be able to get to such a proclamation would be looking at a genre I'd not be interested in playing and the specifics of where creativity shines wouldn't move me. Sports games, as a for instance. But that would probably say more about my gaming habits, interests, etc than the games themselves.

nesf

The World of Warcraft clones, which are clones of a clone basically.


Though really the prize goes to the F2P games on mobile platforms, they're basically just different Farmville skins usually.

GarIT

Racing/Driving games, they're all the same and are disappointing. Codemasters for example get great feedback on how to make the F1 series much better which they ignore.

Fnz

nesf wrote: »

The World of Warcraft clones, which are clones of a clone basically.


Though really the prize goes to the F2P games on mobile platforms, they're basically just different Farmville skins usually.

WoW isn't a genre, by 'WoW clone', are you referring to the MMORPG genre? You seem to have set up an impossible argument, anything innovative within the genre is now no longer a "clone".

Also wouldn't consider 'Free To Play' a genre. There are free to play games from many genres.

the_syco

nesf wrote: »

Though really the prize goes to the F2P games on mobile platforms, they're basically just different Farmville skins usually.

Farmville;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV04IqBr6Iw

Planetside 2;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUhnLfNGpNI

I'm not quite getting how Planetside 2 is like Farmville

=-=

As per the topic, I'd go with racing games. There's not much in the way of creativity, or it becomes not-a-racing game. Kinda a cache 22 situation.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

he said f2p games on mobile platforms..

Pushtrak

Even with F2P mobile, there seems to be a big variety of genre. I mean, it seems like indie - a categorization rather than a genre.

Robert ninja

Dcully

GarIT wrote: »

Racing/Driving games, they're all the same and are disappointing. Codemasters for example get great feedback on how to make the F1 series much better which they ignore.

Take a look at the racing sim genre it will change your opinion.
I agree with you with regard arcade racers,they are all pretty much the same.

GarIT

Dcully wrote: »

Take a look at the racing sim genre it will change your opinion.
I agree with you with regard arcade racers,they are all pretty much the same.

Which sims are you talking about, mose I've seen are dated. I don't think mods really count, its not the game itself. Another thing that annoys me is pitstops, most races have them, most games don't include them.

Dcully

GarIT wrote: »

Which sims are you talking about, mose I've seen are dated. I don't think mods really count, its not the game itself. Another thing that annoys me is pitstops, most races have them, most games don't include them.

iracing for a start,its expensive but the best sim out there right now,assetto corsa is the latest [in early access beta right now]and up there with the best physics available.
Game Stock Car is also fantastic.

Plenty more too, www.racedepartment.com has a tonne of leagues for plenty of different sims.
Also if you prefer they have racing clubs for each sim which isnt a league as such but fun racing in a safe envoirnment away from wreckers, highly recommended, pitstops included in some.

landsleaving

It's sports. Or to be even more accurate, football. 2 games competing for the same market that have been more or less the same since the PS1.

Don't even try mentioning FIFA Street, because it's awful. Should have been a mini-game like the indoor mode in FIFA 98. Which was the last time a football game has been creative. Around the same time as Libero Grande actually.

Shiminay

It's easy enough to pick out examples of games that are good within any genre, but I think it's fair to say that fps definitely has plateaued, I think Occulus Rift will help to bring some innovation there.

The genre itself has of course forked into many sub genres and within that we can definitely say that the "military shooter" flavour is frankly embarrassingly insulting to people's intelligence with appalling story telling and reliance on "set pieces with loads of splosions."

briany

landsleaving wrote: »

It's sports. Or to be even more accurate, football. 2 games competing for the same market that have been more or less the same since the PS1.

Don't even try mentioning FIFA Street, because it's awful. Should have been a mini-game like the indoor mode in FIFA 98. Which was the last time a football game has been creative. Around the same time as Libero Grande actually.

FIFA and Pro Evolution have been slowly, but surely, merging into the same game since 2002. It's surprising that there isn't more in the way of third party options for people who enjoy soccer sims but are dissatisfied with the two established contenders. I mean, I'm sure there lots of little flash games and things of that nature out there but I was thinking of something more fully formed, maybe even community driven, a game that would be to soccer sims as Flight Gear is to flight sims.

Friend Computer

Fnz wrote: »

WoW isn't a genre, by 'WoW clone', are you referring to the MMORPG genre?

This is a bit of a tricky one; WoW has had such a massive effect on the MMORPG genre in creating a model that many companies who enter it have tried to emulate. In that way? Yes, WoW-type games could be considered a genre or, to split hairs, a sub-genre.

I think there is the feeling, however, that the tables are being turned and the sub-genre is now becoming the super-genre with other MMOs being the exception rather than the rule.

So, bearing that in mind, you could conceivably say MMORPGs have become creatively bereft, as they just try to ape the mechanics of one game in the hopes of recreating its success and not be too inaccurate in calling it the "WoW genre".

My kingdom for another UO.

nesf

Fnz wrote: »

WoW isn't a genre, by 'WoW clone', are you referring to the MMORPG genre? You seem to have set up an impossible argument, anything innovative within the genre is now no longer a "clone".

Also wouldn't consider 'Free To Play' a genre. There are free to play games from many genres.

Ok, let me rephrase this another way. Pick any genre and someone here can dig up a few indie examples of innovation or some little known small developer release that did it too. The idea that an entire genre is bereft of creativity is always going to fail there's always some game out there that breaks this, unless we restrict ourselves to big AAA releases from major developers or something.

WoW clones were a scourge on the MMORPG genre. They were a subset with the genre (or a sub-genre, really it's hair splitting) and apart from some small tinkering generally following the tried and trusted progression/combat system found in WoW and EQ before it etc.

the_syco wrote: »

I'm not quite getting how Planetside 2 is like Farmville

This would kind of be why I said mobile, War Thunder and World of Tanks aren't remotely like Farmville either but what I'm thinking of is the "give us real money or wait 10 minutes before you can play the game again" crapware that's shoveled out on iOS and Android. Whether you'd consider this a genre? Or at least a sub-genre? I mean putting them into the same box as Planetside and War Thunder seems rather absurd. Besides, coming up with a definition of genre we'd all be happy with would be impossible no? Shouldn't we just settle for grouping together large numbers of games that share many basic aspects of their gameplay?

Agricola

Some games within the FPS category have some nice ideas or innovations. Singularity was a linear shooter I enjoyed because it had a sort of under developed timeshift mechanic. I never play military FPS's but from all the reviews I've read its clear they're nothing more than rollercoaster rides where you rarely have to turn your brain on at all.

johnny_ultimate

Military shooter counterpoint: Spec Ops - The Line.

Every 'genre' (itself a very problematic term, given the variations within) has people doing interesting things. Doesn't really matter if its indie or mainstream: there's always people with new takes an old ideas, as well as completely fresh ones.

briany

Agricola wrote: »

Some games within the FPS category have some nice ideas or innovations. Singularity was a linear shooter I enjoyed because it had a sort of under developed timeshift mechanic. I never play military FPS's but from all the reviews I've read its clear they're nothing more than rollercoaster rides where you rarely have to turn your brain on at all.

I thought most people were playing military FPSes these days for the multiplayer. It's worrying if they aren't, because the single player modes really do play out like an interactive movie.

the_syco

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

he said f2p games on mobile platforms..

I didn't read that far

How about Fifa 52 and it's ilk?

ShadowHearth

Soccer and Fifa in general? I guess sports games? In fairness, there is feck all you can do when there is a pitch few people and 1 ball. I guess you can always make ball rounder? :pac:

penev10

In fairness a footy sim is probably one of the most difficult things to program. The AI required have the 11 individuals act as a unit which is constantly morphing and reacting depending on the situation is tough enough without having it to be realistic also.

I'm a big footy fan but gave up on the games about 4 or 5 years ago. Every tweak they made was breaking something else in the game as it was all smoke and mirrors, not true AI.

the_syco

penev10 wrote: »

In fairness a footy sim is probably one of the most difficult things to program. The AI required have the 11 individuals act as a unit which is constantly morphing and reacting depending on the situation is tough enough without having it to be realistic also.

I'm a big footy fan but gave up on the games about 4 or 5 years ago. Every tweak they made was breaking something else in the game as it was all smoke and mirrors, not true AI.

When you can play footie in a 3rd person view alongst with 22 other players, I'll think differently. Also when you can play against and with AI that is actually good and spontaneous.

nesf

the_syco wrote: »

I didn't read that far

But the mobile bit was between the F2P part and the Farmville part...

briany

penev10 wrote: »

In fairness a footy sim is probably one of the most difficult things to program. The AI required have the 11 individuals act as a unit which is constantly morphing and reacting depending on the situation is tough enough without having it to be realistic also.

I'm a big footy fan but gave up on the games about 4 or 5 years ago. Every tweak they made was breaking something else in the game as it was all smoke and mirrors, not true AI.

This'll sound like a bit of a conspiracy theory, but I've always felt like developers of franchises have little interest in develop the best game possible in any single iteration because it's much more profitable to keep dangling the carrot of next year will be better. A lot of people think Pro Evo 6 was never bettered and still played it for years after, just updating the option file.

Hank Scorpio

competitive fps games definitely for me, a serious lack of skill of today's shooters. More money in consoles in the last few years which results in games more noob and controller friendly