Addicted "Off The Grid" Newbie question! Advice on legal aspect?

PaurGasm

Inspired by my travels, views, handyman skills and Henry David Thorou, I have made the decision that in some point in my life I will live 100% OTG...

Anyway, this summer I'll be getting into my 20's (Ill be 23 and finished college this summer) and would like to "practice". I have some experience in farming and agriculture from my travels.

I plan on building some sort of shelter for myself (possibly a small standing structure) beside the sea/river so I can fish and have fresh water, lantern inside with small homemade stove etc... Basically 1-3month camping but with a standing structure shelter made with materials on site...

What are the legal aspects I have to worry about? Planning permission?Cutting down trees? Staying on the land for 1-3months during summer?


I may come across as a compete newbie here but this is only the first step!


Also, please share any similar stories of your first steps or similar situations!

aaakev

Whos land you planning to do this on? You cant just go building on someones land and cutting down trees without permission

Tabnabs

PaurGasm, you going to get some honest advice and feedback. I've seen this subject on numerous similar forums and it gets very contentious, if you don't like people knocking you and your ideas, then it's not the best subject to ask like-minded people. But if you want advice and experience, then stick with it.

Ireland is a very small place, there is no public land where you can do as you like, this is your first obstacle.

Filibuster

The OP reminded me of the guy in the Phoenix Park who got murdered recently. Had €100k in the bank but wanted to live off the grid so was sleeping in the Phoenix Park and cooking on a stove.

Nino Brown

Filibuster wrote: »

The OP reminded me of the guy in the Phoenix Park who got murdered recently. Had €100k in the bank but wanted to live off the grid so was sleeping in the Phoenix Park and cooking on a stove.

Off the grid? In the Phoenix park?:D

cob rob

i have a 25 sq meter cabin at my back garden that i lived in for a few years never had plumbing but had wifi and all electrics and heating would love to move it to a small plot of land maybe .1 of an acre with full solar heat and electrics anybody have any ideas info stories on similar stuff?

Pat Mustard

PaurGasm wrote: »

What are the legal aspects I have to worry about?

1. Permission to occupy the land and build; a conveyance or lease of land, possibly a licence. Many landowners are unlikely to go for this sort of arrangement on a short term basis. They are likely to want to be protected by a lease, or license at the least, and they are unlikely to be interested in a situation where they will be left with a bill for legal work. In other words, in the unlikely event that they will be interested, you can expect to cover the costs yourself.

2. Access to the land (vehicular or pedestrian, etc.) Also, connection to sewer, septic tank, soakaway, and connection for any other services, if applicable.

3. Planning permission.

4. Building regulations.

This is just for starters. There must be a whole range of points that I've missed.

The Glass Key

I thought there was only one law that everyone has to abide by in Ireland.....

"Don't get caught"

If you keep to that you'll be fine

PaurGasm

aaakev wrote: »

Whos land you planning to do this on? You cant just go building on someones land and cutting down trees without permission

Tabnabs wrote: »

Ireland is a very small place, there is no public land where you can do as you like, this is your first obstacle.

The Mustard wrote: »

1. Permission to occupy the land and build; a conveyance or lease of land, possibly a licence. Many landowners are unlikely to go for this sort of arrangement on a short term basis. They are likely to want to be protected by a lease, or license at the least, and they are unlikely to be interested in a situation where they will be left with a bill for legal work. In other words, in the unlikely event that they will be interested, you can expect to cover the costs yourself.

2. Access to the land (vehicular or pedestrian, etc.) Also, connection to sewer, septic tank, soakaway, and connection for any other services, if applicable.

3. Planning permission.

So, for example, lets take a hypothetical step and say that I buy hectare of land with a river or lake nearby. Forget about the cost of this imaginary land, fishing licence, trespassing outside of my land etc... Is there a loophole in the planning permission that allows me to build a small shed or something that I can live in?

Tabnabs

PaurGasm wrote: »

So, for example, lets take a hypothetical step and say that I buy hectare of land with a river or lake nearby. Forget about the cost of this imaginary land, fishing licence, trespassing outside of my land etc... Is there a loophole in the planning permission that allows me to build a small shed or something that I can live in?

Absolutely, 100%, no. If there was, it would be very popular and be exploited so much that said loophole would be removed.

Danpad

OP, some input for you: I am in the process of doing just this.
I didn't do much research at first - you should, it will pay off. I put out a request for land with a price I was willing to pay.
Eventually I received a response. Met the person, viewed the land a few times, walked it and scope it out. Ideal for me, shook hands and we have begun the legal process.

My vision, to do as you are stating but not live there permanently. Life's circumstances simply does not permit me to make such a transition. But I will be there, often. Now, what I have discovered, from ringing the various county councils of the counties I was looking at land in, is this: Even on residentially zoned land, you will need a permit to put up a structure of any kind if you intend to live in it- house/static caravan/shed/mobile home/pig sty/termite mound...everything. Ditto for agriculturally zoned land, although with this option, shelter for animals is OK. There are options which are legal and they let you camp on your land for 10 days or less. I queried this with the councils and the resounding feedback I received was that nobody is going to come knocking on my tent asking me to shift.
Having said that, I'd imagine that if you were living in a tent in the heart of the countryside somebody would notice!

You can erect sheds. I queried this also and put forward the farcical, imaginary event of me falling asleep in the shed for several days. Again, the majority of responses were that, as long as I don't take the proverbial, nobody will bother me. Also, I got a big thumbs up to driving onto my land in a campervan and staying there as I can easily prove that it's temporary and drive it off again!

Please note: None of the above is cast in stone. These are my opinions and recollections of conversations. IMO, I'd say you need to think about who else other than official bodies is going to see you and what will they think? EG: potential neighbours.

cob rob

danpad any mention of log or wood cabins in your discussions . i have one and would be willing to modify it to get it up to code for it to be an actual house does ANYONE have ANY info or kno of any tiny sites in say dubin or kildare for sale 2 or 300 hundred sq meters would do

Khannie

Interesting story from the US. The upshot - Keep your gob shut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtiI1KA8Vps

Danpad

cob rob wrote: »

danpad any mention of log or wood cabins in your discussions . i have one and would be willing to modify it to get it up to code for it to be an actual house does ANYONE have ANY info or kno of any tiny sites in say dubin or kildare for sale 2 or 300 hundred sq meters would do

Yes, I asked about these. You need permission. However, let me put forward another opinion of mine: If you happen to be an inspector and you're out driving just for a bit of R&R let's say, and you happen to take so many twists and turns off the beaten track and then you decide to go it on foot, hiking across acres and acres of farmlands etc and then you stumble across my forest and for some peculiar reason think: "hmm, I sense a cabin in those there woods," then, well...there's not a lot I can do is there. But, if said inspector acts on their sixth sense and decides to negotiate the dark, dense woods and investigate, they'd be sorely disappointed to find my, albeit little, cabin on a sub frame with wheels.

This is all just hypothetical you understand.

aaakev

Khannie wrote: »

Interesting story from the US. The upshot - Keep your gob shut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtiI1KA8Vps

Her lawer will have a field day with that

Khannie

aaakev wrote: »

Her lawer will have a field day with that

I hope so.

Sh1tbag OToole

Say you did get planning permission to build a small cabin or house in your field, would you actually be allowed to build it yourself?

Will the council take issue with it being off grid?

Do you need to employ a qualified nail-hitter to slap the thing together for you?

Unfortunately since the tiger died people have started to agitate for stricter rules and "qualified installer" schemes without realising this thing only makes life hard for the DIY enthusiast. Also because mainland Europe is riddled to hell with regulation they think it must be a good thing..

Watch Ryder

Yep, it would have been better if tiger had stayed a pussycat because all the EU-type legislation want to keep on putting their boot on your neck.

Yet as long as Ireland is run by the Dubliner city-morons any 'back to the land' movement is going nowhere. It's still got enough baggage from the Home Rule days of pre-1920 without the issues of the EU nonsense...

Danpad

I'd hazard a guess that most of the morons running the country are not Dubliner city types but herald in fact from less 'metropolitanised' areas which, if you want to make that leap, makes it even more ironic considering that perhaps deep within the bowels of their murky minds they'd have more of a connection to the land than the decent Dubliner city types.

Sh1tbag OToole

Danpad wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that most of the morons running the country are not Dubliner city types but herald in fact from less 'metropolitanised' areas which, if you want to make that leap, makes it even more ironic considering that perhaps deep within the bowels of their murky minds they'd have more of a connection to the land than the decent Dubliner city types.

An honest to the Lord dub is infinitely better than a culchie blow-in who is too good for his culchie past.

Anyway, you can spend the day trawling the forums and the rest of the interweb finding 101 ways in which what you plan to do might be illegal but really an out of sight cabin on your own land is unlikely to give bother. Try and keep it so it can be moved by a tractor or an all terrain forklift just in case. Dont invest too much in it

We are all expected to be goodie 2 shoes on this public forum and this probably prevents people giving their honest opinion. Nobody is going to tell you to build without planning permission on here, or to have a super SER wheeled into your shed by anyone other than a RGI.


To me off the grid living doesnt just mean doing without the usual services physically connected to your house but also not spending your earnings on the organisations that support the vast majority of modern society's cushy pen-pusher jobs and qualified installers whose jobs only exist because the law requires their use

bonniebede

I think there is a possible solution to the op's question, but this is just my recollection, its a good while since I researched the planning laws.
I believe you are allowed camp (including mobile home or caravan) for up to 30 days per year without planning permission to be designated a camping site . (this is in the law to allow for things like scouting trips etc or one off events and distinguish them from permanent camping sites or places for mobile homes etc.)

so buy your bit of land. Sub divide into 12 independent plots, you would have to do this with the land registry and I don't know what the costs involved would be like there.

but then you would own 12 different properties, albeit all adjacent. Put your diy bothy on wheels and every 30 days roll it a few feet over the line into your next property. it you are off grid then you won't have any water/electricity/sewage connections to worry about anyway.

Problem solved?

Tabnabs

A great documentary about what it's actually like to establish yourself "off grid" (hint, it's not cheap or easy).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwQxqBBut8s

prepperballs

You forget yourself boy!! Don't you know you've been owned since the day your birth certificate was issued to you? You can't just go around doing what you want like a free human being, only the people that own you can do that! You gotta earn your right to live in a way which you're allowed to live it! Now get back to work slave! And don't forget to pay your taxes!

Esel

^ "Cor baby, that's really free" (man).

prepperballs

Power to the free-man bro, weeeew Ha, but really, I've seriously thought of doing the same thing myself, not so much in Ireland though cause there's nowhere to go! But more just a little survival type trip for 2 or 3 months, I had either Guyana or ideally some island around southeast Asia/Indonesia in mind, even went so far as to study as much as I could on all the indigenous animals, edible plants, endangered animals (so I didn't end up eating the buggers) satellite images, tropical diseases and lots of other stuff for both areas! And if I had the money to do it at the time, I probably would have went and done it! But yea, the more ya learn, the more ya realize how much is actually involved, and the dangers of it, at least in my case with going abroad and all! But who knows, maybe one day if I get the money, and get the safety side covered as much as possible, (not planning to go out there in me nip just packing a knife or anythin) might still happen one day
Good documentary there btw Tabnabs

Danpad

In my youth I 'tramped' around Europe for a couple of years, picking up cash in hand dish washing or waiter jobs wherever and whenever I could. When I did find short term employment I was grand but when I didn't it was just me and my tent usually camped on green belt areas the outskirts of cities. During these times I was effectively off grid and sometimes it could be for around a month to five or six weeks at a time. From my experience, I can tell you that anybody considering such an adventure should approach it with trepidation. Whilst I stored bits of grub (mainly pasta and noodles) I found myself sneaking back into any given city at night and lurking at the back of restaurants waiting for chefs to step outside for a smoke break whereby I'd ask for bits of over cooked or burnt food. The inevitable hunger pains are like nothing you've experienced and the consequential imbalance of mind and thought is not only confusing but quite debilitating too. Finding myself in the midst of the Romanian revolution whilst experiencing these drawbacks was a world of hurt and I had to barter my way out of country, starting first with my back pack and then selling the contents from the train station platform where I slept and took cover from the utter chaos outside. Why am I disclosing these details? Well, with the best of intentions really. As negative as my advice might sound, I would say go for it but plan ahead, then revise your plan and then revise it again. Factor in backup plans that will serve as an insurance policy that will get you out from wherever it is. The spirit of adventure is indeed captivating but don't let the terrain captivate you.