Trust mechanic or ask for specifics?

Jimmy Bottlehead

So I'm sitting in Advance Pitstop getting my alignment done, and the guy doing it has just asked me what model my car is (it's an S2000 so it's literally written on the side).

Started wondering about him so checked what alignment is ideal, and came across this:

Front
Caster Left 6° 45"
Caster Right 6° 45"
Camber Left -1° 00"
Camber Right -1° 00"
Toe Left 0° 0"
Toe Right 0° 0"
Total Toe 0° 0"

Rear
Camber Left -2° 00"
Camber Right -2° 00"
Toe Left 0° 20"
Toe Right 0° 20"
Total Toe 0° 40"

So I showed him and asked him if it was possible.
His reply is that because the difference is only 0.4 of a degree, his setup is 99.9% similar and he prefers when everything is straight anyways...

Do I trust this guy? :pac:

challengemaster

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

So I'm sitting in Advance Pitstop getting my alignment done

I'd sell the car after that :pac:

Gary ITR

I'm not sure camber and toe can be adjusted on the standard arms on your car, I don't think it can anyway. Square is fine on the road and you're a bit of a fanny so you don't go fast enough to notice the difference it makes to the handling

Jimmy Bottlehead

Gary ITR wrote: »

Square is fine on the road and you're a bit of a fanny so you don't go fast enough to notice the difference it makes to the handling

That's putting it mildly.

Gary ITR

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

That's putting it mildly.

I'd happily do a bit of tweaking on your car sometime. Seeing as if you ever decide to sell I will be buying it

mgbgt1978

You can't seriously put the words 'mechanic' and 'advance pitstop' in the same post......;)

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You can't seriously put the words 'mechanic' and 'advance pitstop' in the same post......;)

You can when you put the words "are not" in it

biko

If you're worried use a proper tyre place next time and not a general mechanic.
That said it'll probably be grand.

Jimmy Bottlehead

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You can't seriously put the words 'mechanic' and 'advance pitstop' in the same post......;)

"Sure I don't even like cars, y'know when you spend all day with something you couldn't be arsed with it outside of work".

Did a great job of reassuring me on your skill, Mr Car-Hating Mechanic.

George Dalton

Where did your ideal alignment settings come from?

mgbgt1978

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

"Sure I don't even like cars, y'know when you spend all day with something you couldn't be arsed with it outside of work".

Did a great job of reassuring me on your skill, Mr Car-Hating Mechanic.

What ?????
Actually If the Advance guy said that I wouldn't be too surprised....nothing worse than spending all day doing stuff you really haven't a clue about.
Then have Punters asking questions you can't answer, but will try your best to give as wrong an answer as possible anyway.

Cuddlesworth

biko wrote: »

If you're worried use a proper tyre place next time and not a general mechanic.
That said it'll probably be grand.

I found that very few proper tyre places can do four wheel alignment, leaving me with Advance Pitstop and its ilk.

Jimmy Bottlehead

George Dalton wrote: »

Where did your ideal alignment settings come from?

One of the enthusiast S2000 sites - they're the UK recommended alignment.

Would really prefer never to go back there again. Nothing worse than trusting something you care about to someone who doesn't care about what they do.

On the plus side, had an excellent experience getting a wee service done by the lads in The Tuning Factory. Very happy with it.

George Dalton

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

One of the enthusiast S2000 sites - they're the UK recommended alignment.

How do you know the source for those settings was correct?

Jimmy Bottlehead

George Dalton wrote: »

How do you know the source for those settings was correct?

I don't. Simple as.

wildcatares22

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You can't seriously put the words 'mechanic' and 'advance pitstop' in the same post......;)

i suppose you have a good story/personal experience to go with this statement...

mgbgt1978

More than one.......which branch do you work in yourself ?

wildcatares22

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I don't. Simple as.

so if i told you that the advance pitstop settings are the manufacturers settings and not some "i know a thing or two about cars" enthusiasts settings, would you be more confident in them?

gctest50

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Total Toe 0° 40"

His reply is that because the difference is only 0.4 of a degree

Do I trust this guy?

No

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

and he prefers when everything is straight anyways...

Isn't the point of it all that everything will be where it should be when its in "natural habitat"

- under its own weight, on its own tyres, driving along between corners

wildcatares22

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

More than one.......which branch do you work in yourself ?

where i work is not an issue here.

it's annoying to see some lad bad mouth an individual/business without putting up the reason why, or to make assumptions that a mechanic/apprentice/tyre fitter or whoever doesn't give a damn about the job he/she is doing.

you are correct though,
1 i do work for AP:mad:.
2 i absolutely detest the place and there attitude(management)
but
3 I TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN WHAT I DO, even if i would rather see the place closed in the morning, and most of the employees on the floor would say the same.

i'm not attacking you by the way.

mgbgt1978

wildcatares22 wrote: »

so if i told you that the advance pitstop settings are the manufacturers settings and not some "i know a thing or two about cars" enthusiasts settings, would you be more confident in them?

Are they ???????
Or are they just what came with the software that the Tracking equipment Supplier sold to Advance ?

Renegade Mechanic

wildcatares22 wrote: »

where i work is not an issue here.

it's annoying to see some lad bad mouth an individual/business without putting up the reason why, or to make assumptions that a mechanic/apprentice/tyre fitter or whoever doesn't give a damn about the job he/she is doing.

you are correct though,
1 i do work for AP:mad:.
2 i absolutely detest the place and there attitude(management)
but
3 I TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN WHAT I DO, even if i would rather see the place closed in the morning, and most of the employees on the floor would say the same.

i'm not attacking you by the way.

Was just about shaping up to back you up:D. I dont work there myself but I know a lot of fully qualified mechanics, highly trained who are working for Advance or Fast Fit since the Auto industry went a little bit t*ts up so there is definitely a decent skill pool for them to draw from. But good lord are they an awful bunch to work for.. Theres a reason you can get "89 euro services" people!

mgbgt1978

wildcatares22 wrote: »

where i work is not an issue here.

it's annoying to see some lad bad mouth an individual/business without putting up the reason why, or to make assumptions that a mechanic/apprentice/tyre fitter or whoever doesn't give a damn about the job he/she is doing.

you are correct though,
1 i do work for AP:mad:.
2 i absolutely detest the place and there attitude(management)
but
3 I TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN WHAT I DO, even if i would rather see the place closed in the morning, and most of the employees on the floor would say the same.

i'm not attacking you by the way.

Firstly, I'm not a Lad . A bit more experience than that.
Secondly, any comments I make about the company in question are more than assumptions, they are based on 1st hand experience witnessed by myself.
Like yourself I detest these large companies whose existence is based on the ignorance of the consumer ("if they're that big they must be good, etc").
And, if you really hate the place that much get out of there. Annoy every 'proper' garage nearby until one of them gives you a job.
There are some very good indie garages out there who know their stuff and take pride in doing a decent job. They might charge accordingly, but at least the job is done by people who know what they are up to.

This whole thread was never an attack on you personally, more the way that AP operate .

edit; ever see a Citroen dangling on a 2 post lift with LHM fluid p!ssing out and six (yes, six) AP guys staring at it waiting for it to fix itself....
or an AP 'mechananic' unable to adjust the rear tracking on a '94 civic because 'he didn't have the right spanner' (it's a14mm).
And then they tell the customer to take their car to a proper garage because they just fit tyres, etc.

wildcatares22

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Firstly, I'm not a Lad . A bit more experience than that.
Secondly, any comments I make about the company in question are more than assumptions, they are based on 1st hand experience witnessed by myself.
Like yourself I detest these large companies whose existence is based on the ignorance of the consumer ("if they're that big they must be good, etc").
And, if you really hate the place that much get out of there. Annoy every 'proper' garage nearby until one of them gives you a job.
There are some very good indie garages out there who know their stuff and take pride in doing a decent job. They might charge accordingly, but at least the job is done by people who know what they are up to.

This whole thread was never an attack on you personally, more the way that AP operate .

"lad" was just meant in general, not as an insult (apologies).
as i don't know you i'm not argueing that you don't have a true reason to doubt the quality of the work in AP. but employees on the garage floor are all branded by what is said in posts in this forum, so it is only reasonable for one like myself to question posts put up here. i have often slammed my laptop shut after reading pages of garbage by posters(not you) who have no experience with the company at all.

wildcatares22

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Was just about shaping up to back you up:D. I dont work there myself but I know a lot of fully qualified mechanics, highly trained who are working for Advance or Fast Fit since the Auto industry went a little bit t*ts up so there is definitely a decent skill pool for them to draw from. But good lord are they an awful bunch to work for.. Theres a reason you can get "89 euro services" people!

totally agree, some excellent skils currently employed by them.

89 euro service.... if only ya knew.
i couldn't do a proper service on my own car for 89euro.

wildcatares22

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Firstly, I'm not a Lad . A bit more experience than that.
Secondly, any comments I make about the company in question are more than assumptions, they are based on 1st hand experience witnessed by myself.
Like yourself I detest these large companies whose existence is based on the ignorance of the consumer ("if they're that big they must be good, etc").
And, if you really hate the place that much get out of there. Annoy every 'proper' garage nearby until one of them gives you a job.
There are some very good indie garages out there who know their stuff and take pride in doing a decent job. They might charge accordingly, but at least the job is done by people who know what they are up to.

This whole thread was never an attack on you personally, more the way that AP operate .

edit; ever see a Citroen dangling on a 2 post lift with LHM fluid p!ssing out and six (yes, six) AP guys staring at it waiting for it to fix itself....
or an AP 'mechananic' unable to adjust the rear tracking on a '94 civic because 'he didn't have the right spanner' (it's a14mm).
And then they tell the customer to take their car to a proper garage because they just fit tyres, etc.

just seen your edit. you would get sick at the things i've seen.

mgbgt1978

To be honest I know a couple of guys who are working in the likes of AP. They are only putting in the hours until things pick up for them, but they have really been sucked into the whole mentality of just doing the bare minimum and getting paid for it.
One guy was a software tech with Mercedes.....this is his 1st time even wearing overalls .
Off topic I know, but the best of luck to you wildcatares22. It's fairly obvious you were'nt the guy the OP met with his Honda.

Jimmy Bottlehead

wildcatares22 wrote: »

where i work is not an issue here.

it's annoying to see some lad bad mouth an individual/business without putting up the reason why, or to make assumptions that a mechanic/apprentice/tyre fitter or whoever doesn't give a damn about the job he/she is doing.

The mechanic himself basically said that - he wasn't really into cars, he just fixed them and had no interest in them apart from it. He also had to ask me what model my car was - I know the S2000 isn't that common, but it does have a Honda badge on it, and another badge saying 'S2000' so it's not exactly a secret.

The guy clearly couldn't give a toss about his job, and my worry is that that attitude extends to the work he carries out on my car.

Sitec wrote: »

So you're judging a persons professional ability on what you have no understanding of?

I'm not an expert, which is why I posted up here... but but someone doing alignment explaining it as "being fairly close" to perfect doesn't inspire confidence, does it?
If a surgeon told me he'd be able to do a 'fairly good' operation on me, I wouldn't be terribly happy. Would you?

Gary ITR

This forum needs its name changed to 'Nitpicking and general bitching'

kona

When you get it back jack it up and check the locknuts are done up to the track rods.
Not ap, but another alignment place let mine go with them still backed off about 3 threads and the inner arch hanging down rubbing on full lock.

mgbgt1978

Sitec wrote: »

So you're judging a persons professional ability on what you have no understanding of?

As hinted at here already (by gctest50) 0.4 of a degree is not 40".
There are 60 minutes in a degree so 0.4 of a degree is 24".

'Professional ability' ?????The guy couldn't set the tracking to the spec's shown, and then couldn't even bullsh*t his way out of it without showing his lack of knowledge...

George Dalton

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Are they ???????
Or are they just what came with the software that the Tracking equipment Supplier sold to Advance ?

Where do you think the tracking equipment supplier gets this info? Internet forums? Or maybe they just make it up? Hardly likely.

porsche boy

Seriously folks, there's alot of rubbish being talked here. Just to be pedantic, OP did you ensure the tyres front and rear were inflated to the correct pressure before getting the job done? Are the tyres all of similar thread depth and the same thread pattern? Do you have the origional or after market wheels? All of these questions can have more of an effect on your handling and drivability then having the settings bang on.

Further more we're all taking for granted that there us not even the slightest play on any of the suspension components.

Not knowing your specific car dosent make the guy a bad employee, I wouldn't know every single car and I'd consider myself a motor enthusiast. Wheel alignment can sometimes be difficult to set exactly as there can be many contributing issues such as play in suspension components, unevenly worn tyres, stupid after market wheels and or suspension components previous accident damage, seized bolts etc.

So basically unless your a qualified engineer or somthing of the sort don't presume you know more then the guy in advance and most of all dont believe everything you read on a car forum, most of thoae people are just commenting for the sake of it.

mgbgt1978

George Dalton wrote: »

Where do you think the tracking equipment supplier gets this info? Internet forums? Or maybe they just make it up? Hardly likely.

Simply pointing out that the tracking equipment is supplied by a 3rd party,and not the manufacturer (Honda, in this case).
For all any of us know it could be a cheapo chinese bit of software (software note, not hardware) which was translated by somebody with only a basic grasp of 'normal' letters, never mind European languages.
Even if the spec figures were correct the AP guy didn't even appear to know what a 'degree minute' means, assuming the OP quoted him correctly.

biko

Less handbags is needed in this thread or I will lock it.

porsche boy

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Simply pointing out that the tracking equipment is supplied by a 3rd party,and not the manufacturer (Honda, in this case).
For all any of us know it could be a cheapo chinese bit of software (software note, not hardware) which was translated by somebody with only a basic grasp of 'normal' letters, never mind European languages.
Even if the spec figures were correct the AP guy didn't even appear to know what a 'degree minute' means, assuming the OP quoted him correctly.

From my experience all alignment measurments on tracking machines are supplied by Autodata who source details direct from the manufacturer. These settings can be confirmed at any time by accessing autodata directly and looking up the specs. Any garage worth its salt will have Autodata, it's the industry standard.