Hoose outbreak aftermath

yupyupyup

Hey guys we had a bad outbreak of hoose during summer amognst bucket fed calves, it came on them all of a sudden and one of them died, we had dosed them twice prior to the outbreak with an oral drench first (orazole) on early Jul then paramectin early Aug. In early Sep then they got the outbreak. Its highly frustrating having done them twice and it was a dry summer! out vet told us them cheaper products are useless and to use panacure for oral and ivomec for inj based. anyhow we did them with panacure and they came alrite. a few weeks after i noticed strong (2nd summer) cattle coughing and a few cows. upon housing in oct we injected everything with ivomec and some cattle were still coughing after, out vet has now told us its a virus and that most of the cattle in the country are coughing. I'm confused by it, i hate to see cattle coughing but it looks like theres nothing i can do. any views?

Farmer Pudsey

yupyupyup wrote: »

Hey guys we had a bad outbreak of hoose during summer amognst bucket fed calves, it came on them all of a sudden and one of them died, we had dosed them twice prior to the outbreak with an oral drench first (orazole) on early Jul then paramectin early Aug. In early Sep then they got the outbreak. Its highly frustrating having done them twice and it was a dry summer! out vet told us them cheaper products are useless and to use panacure for oral and ivomec for inj based. anyhow we did them with panacure and they came alrite. a few weeks after i noticed strong (2nd summer) cattle coughing and a few cows. upon housing in oct we injected everything with ivomec and some cattle were still coughing after, out vet has now told us its a virus and that most of the cattle in the country are coughing. I'm confused by it, i hate to see cattle coughing but it looks like theres nothing i can do. any views?

First of all I do not know how a vet can tell you generic products are not as good as branded, They are exactly the same. Maybe you have resistance to one of the products. You should not be switching and changing during the one season. Stick with the one product. However it is very important to estimate the weight right and with ivermectins to inject under the skin where there is flesh as opposed to bone underneath. I tend to dose to about 50kgs above weight. If an animal is 260 he be dosed at 300kgs rate and if 295 he be dosed at 350kg rate.

This winter as Temperatures are high cattle may have virus's in poorly ventilated sheds, I am lucky mine is a high well ventilated shed. If you can leave doors open etc. Late this year hoose was an issue saw even year and a halfs getting it badly.

bob charles

I have a shed of animals here and they are all after starting coughing in the last 3 days out of the blue. All dosed on entry so about a month ago, will have to go with something short withdrawal as most are coming fit for slaughter in the next month or so.

darragh_haven

bob charles wrote: »

I have a shed of animals here and they are all after starting coughing in the last 3 days out of the blue. All dosed on entry so about a month ago, will have to go with something short withdrawal as most are coming fit for slaughter in the next month or so.

What products have a short withdrawal period? We had 2 of a group of 7 bullocks start coughing 3 or 4 days ago. But they were just fit to go. Sent them off yesterday, cough and all.

bob charles

darragh_haven wrote: »

What products have a short withdrawal period? We had 2 of a group of 7 bullocks start coughing 3 or 4 days ago. But they were just fit to go. Sent them off yesterday, cough and all.

levacide products, albenazole white drenchs to begin with, 14 days withdrawal for beef

Rho b

darragh_haven wrote: »

What products have a short withdrawal period? We had 2 of a group of 7 bullocks start coughing 3 or 4 days ago. But they were just fit to go. Sent them off yesterday, cough and all.

Panacur has a withdrawal for meat of 14 or 15 days from memory.

restive

I injected cattle 18 days ago with ivermectin for hoose. Two of them are still coughing. should I follow up with another injection. If so with?

White Clover

restive wrote: »

I injected cattle 18 days ago with ivermectin for hoose. Two of them are still coughing. should I follow up with another injection. If so with?

Sounds a little more sinister than hoose at this stage. Ivermectins have a residual effect and would cover for about 2 weeks after application. Maybe give your vet a ring about it.

orm0nd

restive wrote: »

I injected cattle 18 days ago with ivermectin for hoose. Two of them are still coughing. should I follow up with another injection. If so with?

if they had lung damage could take 3 to 4 weeks to clear up

I'd watch closely for another few days

_Brian

I know this is a Zombie thread but I’ll ask anyway.

Hoose is just lungworms, am I right ?

restive

Yes, but I don't think the age of the thread matters. The info is still good.

restive

Just got some Nuflor injections from the Vet.

whelan2

restive wrote: »

Just got some Nuflor injections from the Vet.

Did vet come out? There could be unrepairable damage done to the lungs. Vet would need to listen to tell you. The nuflor should mask it for a while though

restive

No. I just drove into him and he gave me the injections in a syringe. He's good like that. €15 a pop.

whelan2

restive wrote: »

No. I just drove into him and he gave me the injections in a syringe. He's good like that. €15 a pop.

Had vet out at something else here last week and got him to examine a couple of calves. He said o e of them-which I had been treating myself - had very bad lungs and he didn't know if she would come right. He gave them draxxin

restive

The vet told me as the were summer 2017 calves. They never got a chance to build up there immunity in their first year and that is why the got sick in 2018.

Welding Rod

Must be the dry year, but I’ve never seen sucker calves here so cough free as this year. First few coughs I noticed were just in the last week, so I’m hitting them today with ivermectin for the first time this year.
I’d be thinking about the third treatment by now in a normal year for the west.

_Brian

whelan2 wrote: »

Had vet out at something else here last week and got him to examine a couple of calves. He said o e of them-which I had been treating myself - had very bad lungs and he didn't know if she would come right. He gave them draxxin

Have a May suck calf here and going with Bimectin today, few of them were coughing and got a Univet fluke and worn 14 days ago, this one is still coughing.

greysides

Give an antibiotic to it also, Brian. Secondary infection.

Lady Haywire

greysides wrote: »

Give an antibiotic to it also, Brian. Secondary infection.

GS, how is ivermectin for build up resistance? I deliberately changed to Dectomax this year because i wasn't happy with the kill I seemed to be getting with noromectin etc. Probably would have used ivermectin based pour ons for last 10 years.

greysides

A recent snap shot of resistance published by Teagasc in March, I think, showed resistance to ivomec in 16 out of 16 calf-to-beef dairy farms checked.

Given the absoluteness of that I doubt a more statistically reliable survey is going to alter that percentage much..

Welding Rod

I reckon those pour ons are a disaster. Can’t be sure they are 100% absorbed, with potential for under dosing. That would lead to resistance build up over time.

I know they are handy, but wouldn’t use them in a month of Sunday’s. But that’s just me. A lot of people are happy with them.

greysides

Any of the persistent products with their prolonged tail-off of blood levels will promote the development of resistance as parasites are exposed to longer periods of sub-lethal amounts.
The presence of resistance, defined as a kill of < 95%, doesn't immediately show up as treatment failure. It needs to get to about 80% for the failure to be percieved.
The time between 95 and 80 allows us to ekk out the usefulness of the drug with various strategies. Once beyond 70% even using the drug in combinations, multiple actives, is considered useless.

We need to check the effectiveness of the doses we use so we know where we stand.

This is a battle we WILL lose. We can only play for time.

Measures taken on one farm benefit only that farm. This is something you do solely for yourself.

greysides

As resistance runs in drug families changing between family members has very little advantage. They all work similarly. Cydectin is different enough from the Ivomecs to be nearly a different group.

Incidentally, stopping using a drug for several years doesn't allow it to become useful again. Once it's gone, it's gone for good.

We have three commonly used dose groups. In sheep, farms with resistance to all three are not unknown. One of the two last-resort doses had resistance to it show up in Cambridge this year. The farm already had resistance to the three normal groups and preventative measures were reported to not be taken. That's sheep.

In cattle, the second result from the study I referred to showed resistance to the white doses in 12 out of 16 farms. Levamisole was not mentioned.

I reckon if it wasn't for the weather problems this subject would have had a lot more exposure this year.

Mooooo

In our case calves go to same small outfarm year on year and isn't really suitable for much else due to size. Would giving the land a break help reduce the possible burden if nothing else? Switched to cydectin LA 3 years ago find it good, but woukdnt give it going out of the shed would still wait the 4 or 5 weeks before dosing. Gave it out of the shed one year and once it started to wear off they got an awful doing

greysides

Mooooo wrote: »

In our case calves go to same small outfarm year on year and isn't really suitable for much else due to size. Would giving the land a break help reduce the possible burden if nothing else? Switched to cydectin LA 3 years ago find it good, but woukdnt give it going out of the shed would still wait the 4 or 5 weeks before dosing. Gave it out of the shed one year and once it started to wear off they got an awful doing

There's two issues, the degree of infection present and the percentage of that that is resistant.
Resting the field, grazing by sheep or tillage will cut back the infection present by different amounts and it will take longer to get back to where it was. You can take advantage of this by needing to dose less. Dose according to FECs.
Any of those methods won't alter the % of resistant worms present but needing to dose less will slow the increase.

If you used Cydectin LA on turnout and no other animals were on the farm at the same time as the calves, and you had problems as soon as it wore off (stomach worms, moreso than Hoose) , that would worry me.
The long activity which prevents a build up of infection over the grazing season while the sun kills last years residue, should mean that when it wears off the pasture is clean enough that they wouldn't need further dosing till housing.
This works better with Stomach worms than Hoose but the same concept applies.
I think it's time you discussed FECs with your vet to find out how effective your dosing is.

wrangler

greysides wrote: »

There's two issues, the degree of infection present and the percentage of that that is resistant.
Resting the field, grazing by sheep or tillage will cut back the infection present by different amounts and it will take longer to get back to where it was. You can take advantage of this by needing to dose less. Dose according to FECs.
Any of those methods won't alter the % of resistant worms present but needing to dose less will slow the increase.

If you used Cydectin LA on turnout and no other animals were on the farm at the same time as the calves, and you had problems as soon as it wore off (stomach worms, moreso than Hoose) , that would worry me.
The long activity which prevents a build up of infection over the grazing season while the sun kills last years residue, should mean that when it wears off the pasture is clean enough that they wouldn't need further dosing till housing.
This works better with Stomach worms than Hoose but the same concept applies.
I think it's time you discussed FECs with your vet to find out how effective your dosing is.

Calves that have been given Cydectin LA will have no natural immunity now as opposed to calves that have been challenged a few times though the summer and given a dose every five or six weeks.
Are we not creating a worse problem by using LA

Mooooo

Normally I wait a few weeks and then give the cydectin. Have had no issues doing it that way. The year they struggled after it wore off they also had scour issues during spring so that may have set them back further. Depending on the year I would have some of the maidens down there cleaning it off before the calves, and may ai them down there, land is very steep is I try to avoid putting silage machinery on it if i can.

Westernrock

wrangler wrote: »

Calves that have been given Cydectin LA will have no natural immunity now as opposed to calves that have been challenged a few times though the summer and given a dose every five or six weeks.
Are we not creating a worse problem by using LA

I have to say I agree with this point, think we have seen a lot more problems in cows and older stock (which were traditionally supposed to develop immunity to hoose) in the last 2-3 years. It will continue to become more of a problem as far as I can see. Does anyone vaccinate for lung worm? Think it’s becoming more popular in the north.

wrangler

Westernrock wrote: »

I have to say I agree with this point, think we have seen a lot more problems in cows and older stock (which were traditionally supposed to develop immunity to hoose) in the last 2-3 years. It will continue to become more of a problem as far as I can see. Does anyone vaccinate for lung worm? Think it’s becoming more popular in the north.

I used slow release worming boluses years ago in bucket fed calves which effectively covered them for the whole season, however as yearlings I found it very hard to keep them right.....is the immunity developed as calves better than trying to develop their immunity as yearlings

greysides

Clinically there does seem to be more Hoose in older stock, particularly cows.

wrangler wrote: »

I used slow release worming boluses years ago in bucket fed calves which effectively covered them for the whole season, however as yearlings I found it very hard to keep them right.....is the immunity developed as calves better than trying to develop their immunity as yearlings

It may have to do with increased intake of both grass and worms (compared to calves) in the face of a low level of immunity.

K.G.

Our regime is ivertimin pour on first dose to calves then two rounds of levafas with last dose of invertimin to finish the year.its try to find the balnace between exposure and building resistance versus maintaining calf health.also if there are.calves with high worms level in the lungs the levafas action in the worms puts less pressure on the lungs than invertimins where the shedding post dosing can lead to problems.

Lady Haywire

Interesting. So what age would your first dose be? We only do ours when we note some coughing, did the three older ones about 3/4 weeks ago & they're Jan/Feb calves.

charolais0153

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Interesting. So what age would your first dose be? We only do ours when we note some coughing, did the three older ones about 3/4 weeks ago & they're Jan/Feb calves.

First dose around july/aug then another maube 6/8 weeks later

K.G.

What ever on grass june and roughlytwo months later-llevafas and then 5 or 6 weeks with last dose of pouron nov/dec