So austerity doesn't work, really?

Vitaliorange

While we are far from excellent economic shape we are certainly in much better condition than three years ago when the IMF arrived. We are now in a position where we can borrow at sustainable interest rates in the bond market, investors are returning, unemployment is falling, we are in a period of economic growth and our deficit percentage has plummeted. So austerity isn't really the economic armageddon many predicted.

Hunchback

Vitaliorange wrote: »

While we are far from excellent economic shape we are certainly in much better condition than three years ago when the IMF arrived. We are now in a position where we can borrow at sustainable interest rates in the bond market, investors are returning, unemployment is falling, we are in a period of economic growth and our deficit percentage has plummeted. So austerity isn't really the economic armageddon many predicted.

Well, mass emigration isn't ideal to be fair

moc moc a moc

Did we really have 'austerity' implemented, to be fair?

donvito99

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Did we really have 'austerity' implemented, to be fair?

Yes.

I've now bumped you to the top of the forced emigration list, replacing Brendan O'Connor.

.jacksparrow.

The loan will be paid back by 2042, I'm sure people will be grateful then!

dxhound2005

CKonetheonlyone wrote: »

Well, mass emigration isn't ideal to be fair

Depends what you mean by mass. With "mass" immigration into Ireland in recent times leading to 17% of our population now having been born outside the country the concept of emigration and immigration has become more fluid. Certainly not the same as the circumstances which pertained in the 1950's and 1980's when there was much higher emigration of Irish citizens.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2013/

Total emigration from Ireland in the year to April 2013 is estimated to have reached 89,000, an increase of 2.2 per cent on the 87,100 recorded in the previous year. The number of immigrants also increased over the same 12 month period from 52,700 to 55,900 (or 6.0 per cent).

walt_white

not sure its really a question of whether it works or not

austerity is not a choice either way

Evelyn Cusack

What do some people think austerity actually is?
A word the government uses to be mean?

It's very simple, spending less than you earn, something we all attempt to do on an individual basis. The very people who whine about austerity are the same who whine about the excesses of the Celtic tiger without realising that their on both sides of the fence.

But it's a vocal minority so doesn't really matter

Evelyn Cusack

What do some people think austerity actually is?
A word the government uses to be mean?

It's very simple, spending less than you earn, something we all attempt to do on an individual basis. The very people who whine about austerity are the same who whine about the excesses of the Celtic tiger without realising that their on both sides of the fence.

But it's a vocal minority so doesn't really matter

Karl Stein

Yay! Let's celebrate socialising the costs of failure! Yay!

KyussBishop

Great - when can we expect a return to full employment? (I'm sure that will be what many of the unemployed, consider as 'recovery')

As much as I try, it's hard to ram-home to people, just how much better we could be doing, than we are now - regardless of whatever it is that people judge as a 'success' (it seems hitting bottom, and starting a slow climb up - even if we have the best part of a decade before we restore the economy fully - is what determines 'success').

As much as I try to get that across (and I'm doing it a lot more, mainly because of the recent alternative funding written about, that Ireland can utilize all on its own - which I view as important to spread knowledge about), I don't think I've really got the narrative right yet; though it's promising that the above alternative funding, seems to neatly cut through all normal austerity arguments, by showing a real/viable alternative, that can go a long way to fully restoring employment.

Mint Aero

Vitaliorange wrote: »

While we are far from excellent economic shape we are certainly in much better condition than three years ago when the IMF arrived. We are now in a position where we can borrow at sustainable interest rates in the bond market, investors are returning, unemployment is falling, we are in a period of economic growth and our deficit percentage has plummeted. So austerity isn't really the economic armageddon many predicted.

You sir or mam, whatever you are, represent everything that's wrong with Ireland.

That I feel is all I can post without getting banned but lets just say I wouldn't accept a pint of Guinness from your kind if you offered.

hfallada

Austerity is a word that is thrown around for anything relating to cuts or tax increase. We didnt experience severe cut backs or tax increases such as Greece where if you are unemployed for more than 6 months, you lose free healthcare and now the Redcross has to offer aid like it does in Africa to the Greeks.

But we couldnt keep borrowing let future generations pay for some of this generations mistakes.

sparksfly

Austerity is only inflicted on a certain sector of the population.

Mates of mine facing redundancy after 20+ years will pay 300 tax on every 1000 euro received.
Their private pensions are worth a fraction of what was paid in.
State pension at 68.
For thousands of small self employed who have seen their businesses crumble due to austerity there is no pension or payoff, not even welfare support at all without jumping through hoops.

Others who topped up their huge salaries with money collected for handicapped children can get a 200,000+ euro tax-free payoff.
Many wealthy citizens will receive huge early state pensions that are guaranteed by taxpayer who themselves will have a small state pension at 68.
Many ex politicians and senior public sector will and do receive multiple pensions, again in most cases long before standard retirement age.

So austerity is not really the economic armageddon many predicted if you are in the cossetted protected sector.
For many others it is a living nightmare.

RobbingBandit

The past two governments, present one included have shat all over the futures of hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens just to appease a few dozen bond holders and continue to pay their own exorbitant wages and pensions and to pay off their banking and construction buddies. There is money available now only because the government have curtailed pretty much every promise they have made, where is the super prison, metro north, the new childrens hospital, there has been a hell of a lot of austerity tbh, but as the old saying goes there is none so blind as those that will not see.

blackdog2

sparksfly wrote: »

Austerity is only inflicted on a certain sector of the population.

Mates of mine facing redundancy after 20+ years will pay 300 tax on every 1000 euro received.
Their private pensions are worth a fraction of what was paid in.
State pension at 68.
For thousands of small self employed who have seen their businesses crumble due to austerity there is no pension or payoff, not even welfare support at all without jumping through hoops.

Others who topped up their huge salaries with money collected for handicapped children can get a 200,000+ euro tax-free payoff.
Many wealthy citizens will receive huge early state pensions that are guaranteed by taxpayer who themselves will have a small state pension at 68.
Many ex politicians and senior public sector will and do receive multiple pensions, again in most cases long before standard retirement age.

So austerity is not really the economic armageddon many predicted if you are in the cossetted protected sector.
For many others it is a living nightmare.

Those in the protected sector are far fewer than you would believe

Plenty of NAMA'd developers have offshore accounts, put money earned (legally, with income tax paid) in places where the state can't get at it.

Not so many civil servants are breaking the bank with what they are on, and are taking fairly big hits, which will only get bigger

Annasopra

walt_white wrote: »

not sure its really a question of whether it works or not

austerity is not a choice either way

There are always choices.

Hootanany

sparksfly wrote: »

Austerity is only inflicted on a certain sector of the population.

Mates of mine facing redundancy after 20+ years will pay 300 tax on every 1000 euro received.
Their private pensions are worth a fraction of what was paid in.
State pension at 68.
For thousands of small self employed who have seen their businesses crumble due to austerity there is no pension or payoff, not even welfare support at all without jumping through hoops.

Others who topped up their huge salaries with money collected for handicapped children can get a 200,000+ euro tax-free payoff.
Many wealthy citizens will receive huge early state pensions that are guaranteed by taxpayer who themselves will have a small state pension at 68.
Many ex politicians and senior public sector will and do receive multiple pensions, again in most cases long before standard retirement age.

So austerity is not really the economic armageddon many predicted if you are in the cossetted protected sector.
For many others it is a living nightmare.

^^^^^^
This +1

norrie rugger

Carlos Roca wrote: »

Yay! Let's celebrate socialising the costs of failure! Yay!

This really. When the wealthy were earning more easy millions everything needed to stay as capitalist as possible. The moment it turned it was a social problem and the people had to share (take) the burden.
Simple things like creating a new higher band of tax for extremely wealthy people was not even done.

In terms of our people leaving, the problem is that in the 80s it was unskilled leaving but now it is people with qualifications

secman

To the O P , should you need to come out of your cocoon any day soon, have a chat with real people , like the people who lived in priory hall for example .

BMJD

Vitaliorange wrote: »

While we are far from excellent economic shape we are certainly in much better condition than three years ago when the IMF arrived. We are now in a position where we can borrow at sustainable interest rates in the bond market, investors are returning, unemployment is falling, we are in a period of economic growth and our deficit percentage has plummeted. So austerity isn't really the economic armageddon many predicted.

Christine Lagarde, is that you?

Your face is MANKY

Evelyn Cusack

secman wrote: »

To the O P , should you need to come out of your cocoon any day soon, have a chat with real people , like the people who lived in priory hall for example .

Such a stupid response, lol

Evelyn Cusack

secman wrote: »

To the O P , should you need to come out of your cocoon any day soon, have a chat with real people , like the people who lived in priory hall for example .

Such a stupid response, lol

Evelyn Cusack

secman wrote: »

To the O P , should you need to come out of your cocoon any day soon, have a chat with real people , like the people who lived in priory hall for example .

Such a stupid response, lol

Evelyn Cusack

secman wrote: »

To the O P , should you need to come out of your cocoon any day soon, have a chat with real people , like the people who lived in priory hall for example .

Such a stupid response, lol