Compact Ultegra 50/34 & 11-28 or Triple Ultegra with 52/39/34?! Advice please?

Arequipa

Hey! Apologies for a boring question.
I currently have a Cube with Compact Ultegra 11-28 cassette.
I would like a couple of lower gears for really steep climbs on Sportives, Alps etc..

So I am looking at a new bike with an Triple Ultegra 6703 52/39/30.
Could i fit a 11-28 cassette with this?
How low would the granny gear be on the triple...when compared to my current compact set-up?

Thanks so much!

A

Arequipa

Sorry the Triple is a 52/39/30...

Zen0

You could just change the rear derailleur for a Shimano 105 5701 medium cage. It will take 32 cassette.

quozl

You'd be going from 34/28 to 30/28 which is a 11% lower ratio.

If you're getting a new bike then why not consider one of the SRAM wifli ones with a compact chainset? They can have a 32 on the rear cassette which with would give you a 34/32 - actually a tiny bit lower than the triple would give you. Also you wouldn't have the extra weight of a triple and the extra pedal width.

If you want to stick with Shimano then you can do the same with some of the new Shimano medium derailleurs. I have a 12-32 on recent Tiagra - the derailleur is only specced to a max of a 30 but they put some wiggle room in there and it's working perfectly for me and other random people on the internet.

I don't see the point for triples anymore if you can get a ratio like that on a compact.

Arequipa

Thanks a mil!
Have been reading up on gear ratios & trying to understand it!

So if i got the triple 52/39/30 with 11/28 on back .... Would the lowest gear be the same as a 32 on back of my current compact?

Buzwaldo

Arequipa wrote: »

Thanks a mil!
Have been reading up on gear ratios & trying to understand it!

So if i got the triple 52/39/30 with 11/28 on back .... Would the lowest gear be the same as a 32 on back of my current compact?

Yeah - it a question of maths - get your calculator and you will find that 30/28 is very close to 34/32

cdaly_

quozl wrote: »

I don't see the point for triples anymore if you can get a ratio like that on a compact.

My problem with that range on a compact is that it's very gappy. I also don't like the big jump from 50 to 34. I'm much happier with a 52/42/30 with a 13-32 cassette (actually, it's really a 13-25 with a 32 tucked in the back...).

Arequipa

I think the Ultegra triple will fit a rear cassette of 11-28..
If this is close enough to a 32 on a compact, i could save this bike for really steep climbs & allow me to spin a nice low gear!

Wishbone Ash

Arequipa wrote: »

...I would like a couple of lower gears for really steep climbs on Sportives, Alps etc.....

Just wondering if you are anticipating problems climbing or have you already experienced them?

I went to the Alps last September and changed to a 11/28 with a compact 50/34 and I got on fine considering I'm a crap climber. I can't really imagine needing a lower ratio. A triple wouldn't appeal to me at all especially considering all the repetition of ratios.

(I was embarrassed to see some of my group in the Alps had a 53/39 with a 23/12 combination and sailed by me while talking on their 'phones! )

Sir Arthur Daley

Arequipa wrote: »

I think the Ultegra triple will fit a rear cassette of 11-28..
If this is close enough to a 32 on a compact, i could save this bike for really steep climbs & allow me to spin a nice low gear!

+1 there.

diomed

I have a 12-30 cassette on the back of my Ultegra 52/39/30 triple. It is a little tricky getting from the 27 to the 30, and the 30/30 is very very low.

Arequipa

Thank you! Yep, I have cycled in the Alps & Pyrenees & have used a compact 11/28 or 11/30...
On certain sportives, when it gets really steep, i find the 28 gets me up but i'd like 1/2 lower gears!
I was in the Pyrenees in the summer: climbed the Tourmalet, Hautacam, Col des Tentes etc: had a 11/30... But again, would be no harm to have a lower gear, whether i use it or not!

smacl

Arequipa wrote: »

Thanks a mil!
Have been reading up on gear ratios & trying to understand it!

So if i got the triple 52/39/30 with 11/28 on back .... Would the lowest gear be the same as a 32 on back of my current compact?

Sheldons gear calculator is what you're after. 34/32 is 2.1 gain, whereas 30/28 is 2.2, e.g. 30/28 is 5% harder. Your current 34/28 is 2.5, so added the 32 at the back is a 14% improvement over what you've got. I run a 53/42/30 with an 13/28 cassette at the moment and use all the gears. Outside of lowest ratio, i find the overlaps offered by having a 42 middle ring means you don't have change gears at the front so often.

07Lapierre

Arequipa wrote: »

Hey! Apologies for a boring question.
I currently have a Cube with Compact Ultegra 11-28 cassette.
I would like a couple of lower gears for really steep climbs on Sportives, Alps etc..

So I am looking at a new bike with an Triple Ultegra 6703 52/39/30.
Could i fit a 11-28 cassette with this?
How low would the granny gear be on the triple...when compared to my current compact set-up?

Thanks so much!

A

A triple with a 28 rear sprocket sounds very low. I have a triple with a 23-11 rear cassette and i've used it in the Alps.

Seaswimmer

I recently changed from a 52/42/32 with 11-25 cassette to a 50/34 with a 12-30 cassette. triple was 9 speed and compact is 10 speed.

I did a tour in Spain with lots of mountains on the triple and got on fine however I rarely used the large front ring (52).

Having had the compact chainset now for a couple of months I would never go back to a triple. I think with 10 or even 11 speed the range of gears with a compact is more than anyone would need for average cycling use. I have had no problem with shifting into the 30 sprocket on the back. I am using a 105 10 speed medium cage derailleur..

Charlie69

Sorry for the hijack but does anyone know how 36-28 (using a mid compact)
compares with 34-25 using a compact.

07Lapierre

Charlie69 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack but does anyone know how 36-28 (using a mid compact)
compares with 34-25 using a compact.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87980214&postcount=13

quozl

You can do it with just a calculator - which your computer will have - and a pen to write down the numbers. Handy if you ever want to do a quick comparison.
Just divide the number of teeth on the chain-ring by the number of teeth on the sprocket to give the chain-ring to sprocket ratio.

36 & 28 = 36/28 = 1.285
34 & 25 = 34/25 = 1.36
34 & 34 = 34/34 = 1

The lower the number the easier the gear.

If you want to know what percentage difference there is between two gears then just divide one's result by the other's.
So 1.36 / 1.285 = 1.058, which means 34/25 is 5.8% higher gear than 36/28.

smacl

quozl wrote: »

You can do it with just a calculator - which your computer will have - and a pen to write down the numbers. Handy if you ever want to do a quick comparison.
Just divide the number of teeth on the chain-ring by the number of teeth on the sprocket to give the chain-ring to sprocket ratio.

36 & 28 = 36/28 = 1.285
34 & 25 = 34/25 = 1.36
34 & 34 = 34/34 = 1

The lower the number the easier the gear.

If you want to know what percentage difference there is between two gears then just divide one's result by the other's.
So 1.36 / 1.285 = 1.058, which means 34/25 is 5.8% higher gear than 36/28.

Yes and no. That gives you the ratio in terms of number of rotations of the crank to number of rotations of the wheel. You also need to factor in crank length and wheel size as per Sheldon's calculator. e.g. for the same crank length 34/34 on a MTB with 26" wheels is a lower gear than 34/34 on a MTB with 29" wheels.

quozl

smacl wrote: »

Yes and no. That gives you the ratio in terms of number of rotations of the crank to number of rotations of the wheel. You also need to factor in crank length and wheel size as per Sheldon's calculator. e.g. for the same crank length 34/34 on a MTB with 26" wheels is a lower gear than 34/34 on a MTB with 29" wheels.

Yes but the question I was replying to - Charlie69's - was only comparing chain-ring and cassette changes not swapping bikes. So there's no need for the rest of that while answering it.

It's the same when comparing gears on my road bike and my hybrid - the crank length and tyre sizes are the same so the calculation I gave is a very quick and easy way to compare them.

Arequipa

Thank you!

I am looking at getting this bike: a Canyon Utimate AL 2014..

http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3237#tab-reiter2

I am a good climber but heavy: i weigh 84 kilos!!
So i can go up any mountain but when the gradient goes >14% i defo like a lower gear!

So if i got the Compact 50/34 x 11/28 Canyon (all Ultegra) could i easily enough get a 11/30 or 11/32 cassette for the bike?
Is it expensive?

A

quozl

Arequipa wrote: »

Thank you!

I am looking at getting this bike: a Canyon Utimate AL 2014..

http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3237#tab-reiter2

So if i got the Compact 50/34 x 11/28 Canyon (all Ultegra) could i easily enough get a 11/30 or 11/32 cassette for the bike?

I don't know the world of 11 speed particularly well, I'm too broke So I'll tell you 1 route that is possible but hopefully someone has a better and cheaper option.

You can get a ultegra 11 speed 11-32 cassete for 70 euros from here
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-ultegra-6800-11-speed-road-cassette/rp-prod108686

However that requires the long cage ultegra derailleur according to Shimano. I'd guess that the canyon is coming with the short cage which is only specced up to the 28. I'm confident that a 30 would work in it due to the wiggle room that they build in but I'd be doubtful of the 32 working. It might or might not and if it doesn't then you'd need a long mech derailleur.

A long mech derailleur would cost another 72 euro. http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/shimano-ultegra-6800-11-speed-rear-mech/rp-prod108734

Then you will also need a new chain as the one that comes with the bike should be sized for the 28 and be too short.

You'd be able to sell the cassette and short cage derailleur but that's hassle and they'd have instantly depreciated in value.

So, not brilliant. It's much easier in the 10 speed world

cdaly_

quozl wrote: »

You can do it with just a calculator - which your computer will have - and a pen to write down the numbers. Handy if you ever want to do a quick comparison.
Just divide the number of teeth on the chain-ring by the number of teeth on the sprocket to give the chain-ring to sprocket ratio.

36 & 28 = 36/28 = 1.285
34 & 25 = 34/25 = 1.36
34 & 34 = 34/34 = 1

Actually, you can do it in your head while trying to get up that f**king hill. Trying to keep all those numbers straight in your head is a great distraction from the bast**ding climb!...

07Lapierre

If you want to see what all those numbers look like, you'll need one of these

1. Clamp your bike in the stand.
2. using the shifters, put the chain on the appropriate chainring and rear sprocket.
3. rotate the rear wheel until the tyre valve and the right crank are at 12 o clock position.
4. slowly turn the right crank ONE revolution and take note of the number of rear wheel rotations.
5. repeat steps 4 -5 for all the other chainring/sprocket combinations..:D

Brian?

Arequipa wrote: »

Thank you!

I am looking at getting this bike: a Canyon Utimate AL 2014..

http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3237#tab-reiter2

I am a good climber but heavy: i weigh 84 kilos!!
So i can go up any mountain but when the gradient goes >14% i defo like a lower gear!

So if i got the Compact 50/34 x 11/28 Canyon (all Ultegra) could i easily enough get a 11/30 or 11/32 cassette for the bike?
Is it expensive?

A

84kg is not heavy! I'm heavy @98kg.

I use a compact with an 11-25 and manage fine. I have an 11-28 as well that I consider putting on every now and then, but there's not many hills around Ireland that would need it.

Arequipa

Think ideally i could lose 1/2 kilos, but I played a lot of contact sports and did a lots of gym and muscle does add weight!!

Think the triple ultegra with 11-28 will be suitable for all hills then..
I know the triple's require more maintenance and are slightly heavier, but whether i use all the gears or not: is a comfort to have 'em!

I remember that short ramp on the Tour of the Burren up Castle Hill: needed a lower gear there; think it was + 16% gradient!!

You guys know if a 11/28 cassette will go with an Ultegra Triple 6703?
https://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3237#tab-reiter2