Teaching in 2016

cianoc07

Im thinking about doing a course for teaching secondary subjects. What are teachers views about teaching now and what things may be like in the coming years. (Salary, pension, work conditions).

byhookorbycrook

Even worse than now and that's dire.

Pretty.Odd.

I'm just out of college since May and there is nothing! It really depends on the subjects you chose. If you have a core subject you have a much better chance of getting work. It's miserable overall though.

solerina

Unless you want to work abroad - plenty of jobs in the Middle East, and a good few in the UK too....you should think again, its impossible to get a job here and that isn't getting any better year on year

spurious

solerina wrote: »

Unless you want to work abroad - plenty of jobs in the Middle East, and a good few in the UK too....you should think again, its impossible to get a job here and that isn't getting any better year on year

While meanwhile the teaching colleges and PGDE courses ensure there is an ever growing backup of qualified teachers hoping things will get better. It's an absolute scandal that it is allowed continue.

donegal11

spurious wrote: »

While meanwhile the teaching colleges and PGDE courses ensure there is an ever growing backup of qualified teachers hoping things will get better. It's an absolute scandal that it is allowed continue.

What do you expect ? You could say the same about most professions stop training lawyers,accountants,architects, arts graduates etc. If someone wants to get into teaching they shouldn't be stopped from doing so. The real scandal was making potential teachers commit an extra year to get qualified extending the PGDE to a 2yr master(essentially just more teaching practice) during which there will no grants or S&S payments and increasing student fees making teaching out of reach for the normal working class.

ytareh

donegal11 wrote: »

The real scandal was making potential teachers commit an extra year to get qualified extending the PGDE to a 2yr master(essentially just more teaching practice) during which there will no grants or S&S payments and increasing student fees making teaching out of reach for the normal working class.

You can NOT be serious!?When did that happen?What the hell have the unions been doing ?I guess it was during the CPA where they did what they liked with us and broke the 'deal' anyway ?Well I certainly wouldnt be a teacher now if there was no grant ...Is there no end to the litany of shame of this and the previous governments ?!

rainbowtrout

donegal11 wrote: »

What do you expect ? You could say the same about most professions stop training lawyers,accountants,architects, arts graduates etc. If someone wants to get into teaching they shouldn't be stopped from doing so. The real scandal was making potential teachers commit an extra year to get qualified extending the PGDE to a 2yr master(essentially just more teaching practice) during which there will no grants or S&S payments and increasing student fees making teaching out of reach for the normal working class.

That's not the point. The colleges have been expanding the number of students they have been taking into their teaching training courses and on the PDE over the last number of years. Only 2 years ago even though the employment prospects in teaching were dire Hibernia were approved to launch their PDE for second level similar to the one they already offer for primary level. I have no problem with the concept of distance learning and it may offer a route into teaching for those unable to commit to being a full time student but expanding courses implies there are jobs out there when there aren't. Recruitment for the Gardai was suspended for the last few years until recently. Teaching is a public service job. Continual production of teaching graduates means there is a huge surplus of teaching graduates and no way near enough work to go around.
That coupled with colleges accepting graduates onto the PDE with daft subject combinations where they don't ever have a realistic chance of securing full time work.

I'm a UL graduate and when I was in college there, there were 4 teacher training courses: Science, PE, Woodwork, Metalwork, approximately 30 students in each course. From what I understand now, there are close to 100 students enrolled in PE each year and at least 60 in each of the other courses.

Also there were only 2 Science Education degrees in the country (UL, DCU). You can now add UCC and Maynooth to that list. The population of the country hasn't risen rapidly since I qualified, neither has the number of students taking any of these subjects in second level. The number of graduates has gone through the roof, and this is not even taking into account the numbers doing the PDE in these subjects. Hence, there are not enough jobs to go around.

I understand your sentiment about the PDE being out of reach but the same could be said of any 2 year masters course now. Student fees have increased for all students, lack of availability of grants is also a problem. I was one of the lucky ones when I did teacher training, the school gave me subbing hours and I got paid properly for them, but it's not a given, some schools don't give any and some schools gave them but didn't pay student teachers for them. It has never been a guaranteed source of income.

It will make accessing teaching harder and I think graduates will think twice before committing to teaching, finances aside, I would think seriously about committing 2 years to the PDE when the chances of work after it are very slim, it may lead to a rise in points for the teacher training degrees where students decide to get the teaching qualification as part of the degree rather than commit to a minimum of 6 years in college, with 2 of them working out very expensive.

donegal11

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's not the point. The colleges have been expanding the number of students they have been taking into their teaching training courses and on the PDE over the last number of years.......... The number of graduates has gone through the roof, and this is not even taking into account the numbers doing the PDE in these subjects. Hence, there are not enough jobs to go around.

I wouldn't disagree but it has to be said that the colleges were only satisfying student demand, the amount of students who went to england(with poor degrees) and came back here to get jobs justified the extra places at the colleges.But I agree reducing places and hence increasing standards wouldn't be out of the question but the idea that you limit numbers numbers so you can give a job to someone who wouldn't have one if there was a fair competition is not exactly just.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I understand your sentiment about the PDE being out of reach but the same could be said of any 2 year masters course now. Student fees have increased for all students, lack of availability of grants is also a problem. I was one of the lucky ones when I did teacher training, the school gave me subbing hours and I got paid properly for them, but it's not a given, some schools don't give any and some schools gave them but didn't pay student teachers for them. It has never been a guaranteed source of income.

It will make accessing teaching harder and I think graduates will think twice before committing to teaching, finances aside, I would think seriously about committing 2 years to the PDE when the chances of work after it are very slim, it may lead to a rise in points for the teacher training degrees where students decide to get the teaching qualification as part of the degree rather than commit to a minimum of 6 years in college, with 2 of them working out very expensive.

All very well saying they'll think twice before committing but have potential teachers not enough to think about with deteriorating terms of employment, lower pay, no allowances, higher S&S, lower pensions, limited hours and probation upon entering the profession(substantial worse terms then existing teachers). The extra year of teaching practice won't deter students wanting to become teachers but it'll just become financially unfeasible for some and rather than selecting from the best pool of potential teachers your selecting from a pool who have the best financial resources(i.e parents money) to last out two years extra at college. It'll have the opposite affect at postgrad regarding points, less people apply for teaching = lower points= poorer quality teachers. I don't know if this new course will make accessing teaching harder as the failure rate at the PGDE is extremely low and I don't see a massive difference bar extra teaching practice and if you can pass 12 weeks I'm sure you'll be able to pass 26 but time will tell.

phish

rainbowtrout wrote: »

. it may lead to a rise in points for the teacher training degrees where students decide to get the teaching qualification as part of the degree rather than commit to a minimum of 6 years in college, with 2 of them working out very expensive.

I'm currently doing science ed in UL also and we were told by a lecturer that the concurrent education courses will also have to increase in duration to five years to add in more education modules. Ridiculous in my opinion really think we would benefit from more teaching placement and subject modules.

I know this is still less than 6 years but apparently students would have to pay for some. alll of the last year because the would get a masters at the end.

ytareh

phish wrote: »

apparently students would have to pay for some. alll of the last year because the would get a masters at the end.

...which they wont get a red cent in extra allowance from the government for ...

donegal11

Whats the point of probation now when the duration of the qualification is extended to include more teaching practice other than to give someone else a job assessing probation, qualifications, teaching practice and masters. (Cha-Ching to the teaching council:pac:)

TheBody

Let's not forget the 10 teaching council workshops you have to do after you finish the PDE too.

Nicole.

I really want a career as a secondary school teacher as in for the past 6 years minimum, it actually keeps me awake some nights thinking about the future. I have serious financial concerns though (I'm completing my undergraduate degree at the moment in English and Geography) so much so that I have nowhere to sleep when I have days at college. My results in Geography placed me in the top 20 of my year in Geography at my university, despite this with so little financial support I really have to consider my position with this new two year teacher training course.

What I think is really needed is classroom experience prior to entering teacher training, I have thought about the implications of this like the fact that it could be abused like qualified teachers not being hired (serious stretch I know) but it lets people really know if teaching is the career for them. I'm doing a placement as a teaching assistant for a couple of weeks for free one or two days a week this year to help me make my decision because it is a lot of time and monitory investment involved now. One of the career guidance professionals at my university said that some people end up hating teaching during their Hdip and find out too late it isn't the career for them and then they are in a real financial mess. It will be really interesting to see if I am still interested in this career when I see the situation on the ground.