Oil clogging catalytic - will it fail NCT?

carveone

Hi all,

Just brought my brother-in-law's car for a service. It's a 2004 Ford Mondeo 1.8 Estate that that's been sitting around for 6 months which isn't a good thing to begin with. Also "Oil, what's oil?". The car is to travel abroad to Europe in January.

The mechanic said that the car is burning oil which is clogging the catalytic which means the NCT will fail it on emissions. I suppose that's not unusual. Funny enough, he also said there's no point in fixing it, it'll just clog up again. "Sure you don't need an NCT abroad anyway." But without an NCT, you can't drive around the place (and your insurance is invalid).

I got a quote from someone local for 260 euro to replace it which is fine I suppose but I'm not sure now though. Does anyone know how long the catalytic will go for? Can I do anything about the burning oil or is that just wear and tear and that's it? I'm not totally convinced that it won't pass anyway if I give it more of a drive! It is possible it's smoking a bit just from lack of use? I've seem bottles of engine cleaner, dipethane or something - would that help?

Because the car is heading abroad, the brother-in-law would really like to pass the NCT first time! Thanks all.

Anjobe

1.8 L Mondeos are pretty notorious for burning oil I'm afraid. The cause is usually either valve stem seals or piston rings, either way its a big (and therefore expensive) repair job.

You really need to take it to a mechanic who has an emissions test rig to see whether or not it will pass the NCT. I would have thought if it is burning enough oil for you to see smoke in the exhaust it won't pass the NCT, and a new catalyst won't help much either. A car that burns oil will have high HC and CO in the emissions, a new catalyst would help with the CO level to some extent but not the HC (unburnt hydrocarbons).

biko

Indeed, speak to local mech who have good emissions knowledge and test rig.

carveone

Anjobe wrote: »

1.8 L Mondeos are pretty notorious for burning oil I'm afraid. The cause is usually either valve stem seals or piston rings, either way its a big (and therefore expensive) repair job.

You really need to take it to a mechanic who has an emissions test rig to see whether or not it will pass the NCT. I would have thought if it is burning enough oil for you to see smoke in the exhaust it won't pass the NCT, and a new catalyst won't help much either. A car that burns oil will have high HC and CO in the emissions, a new catalyst would help with the CO level to some extent but not the HC (unburnt hydrocarbons).

Thanks very much Anjobe. He did have some sort of rig there and said it would fail the NCT based on his readings but gave the impression that a new cat would fix it (not sure did he actually say that though). I think the mechanic was thinking it didn't make any difference because the car would be heading abroad but he's wrong. It's an EU country - without an NCT the insurance would be invalid and the car would not be road legal.

So it's a case of piling more money in, more than a 2004 Mondeo is likely worth, replacing the cat and hoping for the best (but it may still fail) or leaving the car after new tires (530 quid) and brake hoses (160 quid) went on today. Argh.

O.A.P

Put it through the NCT as it is now ,that will cost you 55 quid and you will know everything that's needed to pass if it fails.
Then make your mind up it might need a new cat maybe not or maybe a lot more.
Its the first thing I would do before spending any money on it.

ardle1

This is crazy and I'm not recommending anyone doing it.... Anyway my friend had similar problem with Peugeot 406 Hdi, losing power,limp mode, blaming this and that,and this is what he was 'told' to do. Get a bottle off Dipetane wait until you have basically no diesel in the car and I mean a litre or two. Put the whole bottle of Dipetane in the tank, get down onto the motorway and drive the absolute sh!te out off the car, after a couple off min's of pure hard driving in too low a gear. A huge plume off black smoke burst out the exhaust..... And that solved his particular problem!! To the op, I would not expect you to do such a thing, but the story is 100% true.. Anyone ever heard of this?

dr.fuzzenstein

ardle1 wrote: »

This is crazy and I'm not recommending anyone doing it.... Anyway my friend had similar problem with Peugeot 406 Hdi, losing power,limp mode, blaming this and that,and this is what he was 'told' to do. Get a bottle off Dipetane wait until you have basically no diesel in the car and I mean a litre or two. Put the whole bottle of Dipetane in the tank, get down onto the motorway and drive the absolute sh!te out off the car, after a couple off min's of pure hard driving in too low a gear. A huge plume off black smoke burst out the exhaust..... And that solved his particular problem!! To the op, I would not expect you to do such a thing, but the story is 100% true.. Anyone ever heard of this?

I'm not sure the OP's car is diesel, he never said.
Though this being Ireland, a 1.8 Ford usually is.
OP?
Also, copy of readouts would be handy.
And I think OAP has the best suggestion, before you start pouring money into an ageing moneypit, have it tested and see what's what.

carveone

Put it through the NCT as it is now ,that will cost you 55 quid and you will know everything that's needed to pass if it fails.

The time is very tight - not for the NCT but for the retest. At least when I did mine this time last year, it was mad busy. I was handed this at the last minute (that'll teach 'em). But you are right - 55 euro tells me all I need to know. The car will go in for the test and if it fails on HC the cat won't help it pass as much as I thought it did. The NCT guys are pretty good at telling you what actually needs to be done.

This is crazy and I'm not recommending anyone doing it....

Ouch! That sounds pretty last desperation tactics. Sorry, I didn't type it in although I was thinking it - the car is petrol. I thought it was diesel initially myself, but it's petrol.

Also, copy of readouts would be handy.

Yeah, I thought of that afterwards. Doesn't have them now. He did say the HC was high. The car has been sitting for ages and with any luck it might come down a bit with driving <vague hand wave>.

before you start pouring money into an ageing moneypit

Too late! Ah, it's not that bad I guess. What I figure is that if it fails the NCT they have until 14th January anyway. They're driving to Romania where, I'm guessing, it would cost a lot less to redo the valve seals or piston rings. Something like that at least.

challengemaster

carveone wrote: »

The time is very tight - not for the NCT but for the retest. At least when I did mine this time last year, it was mad busy. I was handed this at the last minute (that'll teach 'em). But you are right - 55 euro tells me all I need to know. The car will go in for the test and if it fails on HC the cat won't help it pass as much as I thought it did. The NCT guys are pretty good at telling you what actually needs to be done.

You'll spend as much going to a mechanic with the proper kit to test emissions, why not get the full workup done for the same price?

carveone

Also, copy of readouts would be handy.

Just an update for interest. Failed NCT as expected but high on the HC which reflects what Anjobe was saying. A new cat would help CO but not HC. Probably still fail as it failed all the emissions sections:

Low Idle (690 rpm)

CO 0.32 vol%
HC 466 ppm

High Idle (3060 rpm)

Lambda: 0.90
CO: 2.34 vol %
HC: 1144 ppm

George Dalton

Typical readings for one of those 1.8 petrol Mondeos. That engine wasn't exactly Ford's finest hour.

As already stated by other posters it would need an engine rebuild and a cat to put it right. We have had 3 of these in recently that have failed the NCT for the same reason and ended up being scrapped because they are not worth fixing.

grainnewhale

carveone wrote: »

Thanks very much Anjobe. He did have some sort of rig there and said it would fail the NCT based on his readings but gave the impression that a new cat would fix it (not sure did he actually say that though). I think the mechanic was thinking it didn't make any difference because the car would be heading abroad but he's wrong. It's an EU country - without an NCT the insurance would be invalid and the car would not be road legal.

So it's a case of piling more money in, more than a 2004 Mondeo is likely worth, replacing the cat and hoping for the best (but it may still fail) or leaving the car after new tires (530 quid) and brake hoses (160 quid) went on today. Argh.

that sounds like a lot for tyres and hoses to be honest. considering you will need an engine soon. I really would cut my losses. buy a diesel mondeo needing test cheap and stick your new tyres on it and flog the petrol one.

grainnewhale

George Dalton wrote: »

Typical readings for one of those 1.8 petrol Mondeos. That engine wasn't exactly Ford's finest hour.

As already stated by other posters it would need an engine rebuild and a cat to put it right. We have had 3 of these in recently that have failed the NCT for the same reason and ended up being scrapped because they are not worth fixing.

is this engine compatable with mazda and Volvo 1.8

George Dalton

Yes it's the same engine.

grainnewhale

They cant all be **** I know somebody with a 2004 with over 200k miles and its never given any bother. I have 2 of these engines from crashed cars both mondeos and was thinking what was the highest value car I could put them in to make a few pound

George Dalton

Like most sh1t engines there is always the odd exception that proves the rule ;D

To be fair, the 3 that went for scrap recently were all pretty high mileage at around 140k, 170k and 200k miles.

grainnewhale

George Dalton wrote: »

Like most sh1t engines there is always the odd exception that proves the rule ;D

To be fair, the 3 that went for scrap recently were all pretty high mileage at around 140k, 170k and 200k miles.

did the post 03 one improve though or is it that they are just hitting their limit now.

George Dalton

The post 2003 versions were better than the older ones but still not great.

Most of the problems do come down to lack of servicing though.

carveone

that sounds like a lot for tyres and hoses to be honest.

Five snow rated tyres as it's to be going to Romania. I thought the hoses were a bit high but it was mostly labour taking off rusty nuts and draining down the system.

considering you will need an engine soon. I really would cut my losses. buy a diesel mondeo needing test cheap and stick your new tyres on it and flog the petrol one.

Would if I could! Not my car but, given that the mileage is (as far as I know) under 100k, I'm not particularly impressed with Ford. My own car is a 1997 Toyota Starlet and the last HC reading was 48ppm as high idle. On the other hand the last NCT guy said the Starlets keep passing no matter how old they are.

Most of the problems do come down to lack of servicing though.

<Cough>whatservicing<cough>

It's a solid car aside from that so it's a pity. But a new cat is going to make no difference to those HC numbers which are just terrible. It needs the engine rebuild too. Bummer.

grainnewhale

carveone wrote: »

Five snow rated tyres as it's to be going to Romania. I thought the hoses were a bit high but it was mostly labour taking off rusty nuts and draining down the system.



Would if I could! Not my car but, given that the mileage is (as far as I know) under 100k, I'm not particularly impressed with Ford. My own car is a 1997 Toyota Starlet and the last HC reading was 48ppm as high idle. On the other hand the last NCT guy said the Starlets keep passing no matter how old they are.



<Cough>whatservicing<cough>

It's a solid car aside from that so it's a pity. But a new cat is going to make no difference to those HC numbers which are just terrible. It needs the engine rebuild too. Bummer.

Was working on 2001 mondeo lately 2.0tddi 350k miles and going like a train.

George Dalton

grainnewhale wrote: »

Was working on 2001 mondeo lately 2.0tddi 350k miles and going like a train tractor

FYP :pac:

grainnewhale

George Dalton wrote: »

FYP :pac:

I said mondeo not passat

JohnBoy26

grainnewhale wrote: »

I said mondeo not passat

the passat, for all the slagging they get, actually have a more refined diesel compared to those mondeos. Not that the passat has a quiet engine but it's easily quieter than the dreadfully noisy mondeo unit.

carveone

grainnewhale wrote: »

Was working on 2001 mondeo lately 2.0tddi 350k miles and going like a train.

I should have said "not impressed with this Ford"!

I guess every manufacturer has their off day. A friend of mine swears by Mondeos. He has a 2.0 diesel and it keeps on trucking...

Interslice

grainnewhale wrote: »

Was working on 2001 mondeo lately 2.0tddi 350k miles and going like a train.

My mate has one of them with 230k on it. Does an odd white smokey rough idle start up but it clears after 30 seconds and off it goes good as new. Would you not bang one of them engines in OP or stick your tyres on a diesel as mentioned?

carveone

Interslice wrote: »

My mate has one of them with 230k on it. Does an odd white smokey rough idle start up but it clears after 30 seconds and off it goes good as new. Would you not bang one of them engines in OP or stick your tyres on a diesel as mentioned?

That's the thinking now - I'd agree with grainnewhale - they should cut their losses. It's more complicated with the car being on the continent. Left hand drive and all that.

That said, there's an 2l 2006 Mondeo diesel with NCT on adverts.ie for 2250 so it would be mad to spend more than that on an engine rebuild! Thanks for all the help.