The ease of stealing a modern car

Cuddlesworth

I know we had a few threads on this a while back but it looks like its getting very mainstream now.

About two years ago a German researcher published a paper pointing out that car manufacturers were using wifi access points to talk to peripheral devices like tyre pressure sensors. These sensors were directly attached to the bus network that held things like the door locks.

I saw a couple of devices pop up on ebay claiming they worked with a certain manufacturer, then we started to see modern cars being driven away without keys.

Well, it looks like this tech is getting out and the actual news sites have started to take notice. When that happens, more thefts will happen as this is so easy to do.

So I ask the question. Would you be concerned about buying a high end car that can be taken with zero noise or fuzz by a 30 quid ebay purchase?

Guy:Incognito

Despite loads of claims over the last 10 years or so that everything is so easy to steal , im still not seeing huge amounts of reports of cars being stolen in these ways. If its so easy why is anyone having their house broken in to and how has anyone got any sort of car worth decent money for any longer than it takes to be noticed?

biko

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

So I ask the question. Would you be concerned about buying a high end car that can be taken with zero noise or fuzz by a 30 quid ebay purchase?

Yes, of course.

PauloMN

None of the cars on the video were stolen though, so obviously whatever technology those guys are using does not allow them to disarm the immobiliser or start the car.

I'd imagine that device is some sort of transmitter that transmits a code it has learned on the same frequency as the original key does. If the original key just transmits a code, then a device nearby which can receive that same code and then transmit it when the owner is out of site will be able to open the car.

Who leaves $3k worth of electronics in their car ffs?

Would rather have one of those devices used than the windows to be smashed. Nothing worth taking from my car anyway!

Cuddlesworth

PauloMN wrote: »

None of the cars on the video were stolen though, so obviously whatever technology those guys are using does not allow them to disarm the immobiliser or start the car.

I'd imagine that device is some sort of transmitter that transmits a code it has learned on the same frequency as the original key does. If the original key just transmits a code, then a device nearby which can receive that same code and then transmit it when the owner is out of site will be able to open the car.

Who leaves $3k worth of electronics in their car ffs?

Would rather have one of those devices used than the windows to be smashed. Nothing worth taking from my car anyway!

Or these are just the videos of the people who don't bother programming a new key off the ODB port.

Fencing a stolen car is difficult. Taking small change and electronics and selling it in the pub is easy.

SleeperService

PauloMN wrote: »

None of the cars on the video were stolen though, so obviously whatever technology those guys are using does not allow them to disarm the immobiliser or start the car.

I'd imagine that device is some sort of transmitter that transmits a code it has learned on the same frequency as the original key does. If the original key just transmits a code, then a device nearby which can receive that same code and then transmit it when the owner is out of site will be able to open the car.

Who leaves $3k worth of electronics in their car ffs?

Would rather have one of those devices used than the windows to be smashed. Nothing worth taking from my car anyway!

So its remote central locking "jammers" here? Disappointing, thought the op was exposing something more advanced. Rolling codes, frequency hopping, etc make code grabbing and reproduction pretty difficult/unlikely afaik...

Make sure you see the lights flash and/or hear the thunk of the locks. Should keep you safe from jamming.


Ohh, justt got a chance to watch vid. Not jammers. Wonder is it only a small few locking systems, or does it work on many systems...
Makes deadlocks useless.

Immobiliser is a separate system but a car with vulnerable remote central locking and keyless start would be pretty worying these days...

Those videos looks like the thieves were just walking along waiting for it to work on one of the cars.

HandsomeDan

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

So I ask the question. Would you be concerned about buying a high end car that can be taken with zero noise or fuzz by a 30 quid ebay purchase?

Not in the least. It's your house/keys you've to worry about these days.

SleeperService

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Not in the least. It's your house/keys you've to worry about these days.

Modern bmw can be taken without the owners keys if thieves can get to OBD port without alerting anyone. If BMW use a central locking module with the vulnerability shown here then a well equipped thief doesn't need to go near your house or keys...

SleeperService

Wiki keeloq there if you're interested in this kinda thing.
Seems there are known vulnerabilities in remote central locking systems alright.

maceocc2

I'm nearly sure I've seen this before myself, not in action but the results.

First time it happened it was early enough in the night, about 11, walked out to get something from the boot and noticed the cars glove box and doors had been gone through and driver door open, noticed the neighbours car as well had been gone through.

Second time, I woke one night with someone in the car, chased him away, but noticed that my neighbors car had also been rifled through again. Didn't take anything, just money, seriously they didn't take either my dash cam of neighbors sat nav.

I thought I was losing my marbles, I'm so OCD about security, I couldn't believe I left it open twice, I'm now convinced I didn't.

Not much you can do though, just make sure you leave nothing of value in the car.

Cuddlesworth

SleeperService wrote: »

So its remote central locking "jammers" here? Disappointing, thought the op was exposing something more advanced. Rolling codes, frequency hopping, etc make code grabbing and reproduction pretty difficult/unlikely afaik...

Make sure you see the lights flash and/or hear the thunk of the locks. Should keep you safe from jamming.


Ohh, justt got a chance to watch vid. Not jammers. Wonder is it only a small few locking systems, or does it work on many systems...
Makes deadlocks useless.

Immobiliser is a separate system but a car with vulnerable remote central locking and keyless start would be pretty worrying these days...

The devices I saw were supposed to first unlock the door, then you plugged it into the OBD port and it programmed a key to start the car. Whole theft done in sub 1min They were retailing (over a year ago) for around 150 dollars.

SleeperService

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The devices I saw were supposed to first unlock the door, then you plugged it into the OBD port and it programmed a key to start the car. Whole theft done in sub 1min They were retailing (over a year ago) for around 150 dollars.

Im guessing just for button start cars, or you'd need to hotwire it, or damage ignition, or have some mechanical master key.
I don't doubt that its possible, but having seen my share of piss poor or pure scam electronics on ebay, I wonder were the yokes you saw all they claimed to be

HandsomeDan

SleeperService wrote: »

Modern bmw can be taken without the owners keys if thieves can get to OBD port without alerting anyone. If BMW use a central locking module with the vulnerability shown here then a well equipped thief doesn't need to go near your house or keys...

Break into your BMW to clone a keyfob, or break into your house to steal the key?

Most are choosing the latter.

SleeperService

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Break into your BMW to clone a keyfob, or break into your house to steal the key?

Most are choosing the latter.

They are indeed. And will continue to do so. However, to be "not in the least" worried about other types of theft is a bit naive (depending on what's in your driveway) IMO, even if your insurance company are decent you'll still be outt of pocket over scummers. Might not be worth camping out each night hyped up on red bull, but might be worth considering an aftermarket alarm or other deterrent.

mags1962

How about a big F OFF padlock and chain, low tech answer to a high tech problem.

Del2005

mags1962 wrote: »

How about a big F OFF padlock and chain, low tech answer to a high tech problem.

Steering wheels are made from soft metal. Just clamp all 4 wheels before going to bed and put the keys into a time lock safe.