Decisions, decisions

xbox gamer

I hope somebody can help me with a few questions that i have regarding wireless alarm systems. It is to fit out an old house, so wired would be out of the question (i think?). I have been trawling this forum and the internet looking at the different kinds to match our needs. All have theirs pros and cons but I have narrowed it down to the following:

Siemens SPC 4320
This seems to tick all the boxes especially with the IP inclusion meaning that it should be virtually future proof with the addition of lights, etc being controlled in the future. I like the way you can turn your house into a fortress but with the internet going down on occasions, does this really work? Does the system require the control panel to function or would a keypad suffice? Does the panel/keypad have to be hardwired with an ethernet cable for the IP function to work?

HKC Quantum 70
This is another that is similar to the Siemens but available by more suppliers. It seems to give the basic option with the various add ons available if wanted down the line.

ABUS Privest Wireless Alarm
This is one that caught my eye for its neatness as there is no control panel that i can see, just the keypad. Its drawback is that it doesn't have the ip function unless i go for the more expensive model.

I don't feel that i will be living in the house for my lifetime but would like to put something in that is cheap to install/future proof/adds value/works well. Would be looking at about 2 PIRs and about 4 contacts to cover the house due to its layout. Can anybody help me from the above suggestions?

KoolKid

xbox gamer wrote: »

Siemens SPC 4320
This seems to tick all the boxes especially with the IP inclusion meaning that it should be virtually future proof with the addition of lights, etc being controlled in the future. I like the way you can turn your house into a fortress but with the internet going down on occasions, does this really work? Does the system require the control panel to function or would a keypad suffice? Does the panel/keypad have to be hardwired with an ethernet cable for the IP function to work?

It works perfectly well, honestly, how often is your internet down.
I have never had an issue getting connection to my panel when I needed it.
You can hardwire the network or use powerline adapters or WiFi Adapters.

xbox gamer wrote: »

HKC Quantum 70
This is another that is similar to the Siemens but available by more suppliers. It seems to give the basic option with the various add ons available if wanted down the line.

A much more basic panel & not really comparable to the Siemens SPC range.
No IP or apps as yet. (Although they have been promised time & time again)
No X10 AFAIK & no mapping gates for control via cause & effect.

altor

xbox gamer wrote: »

Siemens SPC 4320
This seems to tick all the boxes especially with the IP inclusion meaning that it should be virtually future proof with the addition of lights, etc being controlled in the future. I like the way you can turn your house into a fortress but with the internet going down on occasions, does this really work? Does the system require the control panel to function or would a keypad suffice? Does the panel/keypad have to be hardwired with an ethernet cable for the IP function to work?

Good panel, has a few nice features but in terms of future proofing I would disagree.

They have no shock sensors. Its a must for any system.
You can add a receiver off the older signet system to allow you add visonic one way shock sensors.
Who knows what happens when this is no longer an option.
No pulse detection on these devices either, just gross.

The IP I also have an issue with. Yes, its all well and good having access to your control panel to control the system, its the no push to mobile for alarm events that's the let down with the App. What this means is if there is an alarm activation you wont be notified. Now, by all means have some other type of device added to get alerts if the alarm activates but to me this is a big let down.

The only way to know through the app or web browser is if you keep refreshing the page and an alarm event occurs while your looking.

xbox gamer wrote: »

HKC Quantum 70
This is another that is similar to the Siemens but available by more suppliers. It seems to give the basic option with the various add ons available if wanted down the line.

The Quantum 70 is more aimed at just a standard house with less functions although the wire free devices used are one of the best on the market. It will have an App for remote access when it is released. The wire free devices can be wired out of if you have more openings to cover alarm or wanted to add an additional shock to a larger window, it will also cover the tamper circuit.

The HKC 10/70 would be more in line with the SPC.
The same wire free devices as the Quantum 70.

Can have cause and affect, control of outputs via GSM for different devices.
You will have to come back for more info when the App is released

There is a comparison thread between the 10/70 and the SPC here.

xbox gamer wrote: »

ABUS Privest Wireless Alarm
This is one that caught my eye for its neatness as there is no control panel that i can see, just the keypad. Its drawback is that it doesn't have the ip function unless i go for the more expensive model.

It is called a wisdom control panel made by Risco.
The Agility, would be a step up from this system. Has everything covered uncluding PIR cameras which you can take snap shots from and receive the snaps to your phone.
There never system LightSYS™2 is not the complete artificial yet but when all the features of the Agility are added it will be a nice system.

KoolKid

With Siemens the app and browser is a method of controlling the panel remotely. Likewise control of any devices can be done through the app or browser. If you want to turn on lights, heating or any other devices you hardly need push notifications to tell you first. From a monitoring point of view there are many options, SMS via GSM or some landlines, voice dialler, central station monitoring etc. There are various levels of cost with whichever type of notification you want. Likewise with push notifications it looks like there will be subscription charges as well.
The good thing on the Siemens Panel is you are connecting directly to your own system so no one will be charging you for that privilege.

altor

Any system can have all these forms of monitoring but in terms of future proofing it is a bit dated having no push to mobile.

KoolKid

That would make a hell of a lot of systems dated....
There are lots of forms of monitoring, push notification is another , people may not want to pay subscription charges for an app.
There are many other free ways to get notifications pushed to your smart phone.
PS is the HKC IP and app now available??

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

That would make a hell of a lot of systems dated....

If that is the case, then out with the old and in with the new

KoolKid wrote: »

PS is the HKC IP and app now available??

I really dont see the need to reply to this comment.
We have discussed this over and over.

KoolKid

Its relevant firstly because you are here saying a panel with IP is outdated (Nearly as funny as you saying zero resistance is possible) but you go on promoting a panel which has no IP despite it being promised for a couple of years now.
You yourself said this in September..

altor wrote: »

The Lan card is released for monitoring through a monitoring station.
Apps to follow for end users.

And secondly, as HKC is one of the panels being questioned & IP is of interest to the OP of course the question is relevant.

altor

Bit like you telling us that an external bell had no back up battery, but sure your in the business along time :eek:

Anyway, as usual around in circles we go.

altor wrote: »

You will have to come back for more info when the App is released

KoolKid wrote: »

PS is the HKC IP and app now available??

KoolKid wrote: »

No IP or apps as yet. (Although they have been promised time & time again)

You actually answered this question yourself, no need to ask again.

KoolKid

The bell and battery was a misunderstanding on one component..yes I admitted I called a capacitor a battery., A long way off not understanding resistance. Which, after all, in the whole basis on which wired alarms work .
And now you are saying apps that don't have push notifications are dated? Better delete a lot of those out of date apps off my phone...
The question on the IP and app was in relation to your post because I got the impression from your posts HKC had something new to offer that's all. After all, the OP was asking about IP etc... Anyway I guess it's wait and see for another while.

altor

Just read the posts in question and in fact you never admitted you where getting the two mixed up
You did tell the OP in your next response to them the bell is more than likely faulty.
I can post a link if you want to have a read yourself..

The meter I was using only showed an increase in resistance when there was a fault on a circuit. Never stopped me finding a faulty device.

Anyway, be nice if you could try keep the thread on topic and stop dragging in other threads.

Anyway back to this thread.

KoolKid wrote: »

And now you are saying apps that don't have push notifications are dated? Better delete a lot of those out of date apps off my phone...
The question on the IP and app was in relation to your post because I got the impression from your posts HKC had something new to offer that's all. After all, the OP was asking about IP etc... Anyway I guess it's wait and see for another while.

I am aiming my remarks towards alarm systems. Most of the newer systems on the market are all aiming towards push notifications. Not agree???

I dont know how you could get that impression when all I posted re HKCs 10/70 was:

altor wrote: »

The HKC 10/70 would be more in line with the SPC.
The same wire free devices as the Quantum 70.

Can have cause and affect, control of outputs via GSM for different devices.
You will have to come back for more info when the App is released

There is a comparison thread between the 10/70 and the SPC here.

KoolKid

I am man enough to admit if I get it wrong..
I admit it, I called a battery a capacitor or vice versa. There ya go.!
Considering you argued with everyone on that thread that you could get zero resistance are you man enough to admit you did not understand resistance?

Back on the point of apps .
No, I don't feel push notifications is the way forward for everything or everyone.
The vast majority of my customers using IP would have central station monitoring so the Siemens app compliments this nicely.
It would appear for push notifications a 3rd party back end server is required to connect through. That in itself brings its own security issues. From my own research people are reluctant to be committed to subscriptions to the one provider for the life of the panel.

altor

I was stating what I got on the meter used, it was off the meter an engineer who showed me how to test sensors gave me. As I said, I never missed a faulty device and the meter only showed the resistance when there was a faulty device on a circuit. I am not arguing so as I said in the thread, believe it or not.

KoolKid wrote: »

Back on the point of apps .
No, I don't feel push notifications is the way forward for everything or everyone.
The vast majority of my customers using IP would have central station monitoring so the Siemens app compliments this nicely.
It would appear for push notifications a 3rd party back end server is required to connect through. That in itself brings its own security issues. From my own research people are reluctant to be committed to subscriptions to the one provider for the life of the panel.

It all depends on a cost of subscription. I know from asking my customers that most of them are willing to pay a small amount for IP access plus to be able to monitor there alarm system by means of push notification through the App.

I can understand what your saying about being tied to a subscriptions to the one provider but its the systems manufactures who are making this service available. I dont think any of them are going to be like the ESB or that by swapping service providers you will get a cheaper rate each year. I dont think either they are going to have the fees being increased as soon as you are signed up. This would stop future customers committing to having IP on a panel.

Visonic have an App available but as it stands the only way it will work is if you want to get a monitoring station to be the go between. Again not all monitoring stations are providing this service. Was talking to the lad in Northwood the other day and he said they are looking at another way of setting this up but as yet that is the only way. Visonic themselves are not setting up a server to do this from what he told me.

I agree if you have central station monitoring then there is no need for push to mobile notifications as the central station is being paid to monitor the alarm for them.

I dont agree that having remote access over an App with no push to mobile for alarm activation's is future proofing in a system as isn't IP the way forward?

Do you honestly believe you should have to refresh the App just to see an alarm notification?

Do you honestly believe this is the way it should be or is getting money from monitoring of the system the whole design of this Seimens IP system?
(Aiming that at the system, not you)

What I mean is, is that why they don't have push to mobile so when you buy an IP enabled panel you need a second form of monitoring be that by a monitoring station or self monitoring?

KoolKid

If you were using the meter correctly the correct resistance would show. If you understood resistance you would know that a reading of zero is wrong and zero resistance is not possible. Likewise if you understood resistance you wouldn't have argued with us all about it. I thought you would have put your hand up there, anyway....

I think you are missing the point of how Siemens works and how it is different. Your panel is the server that's how a direct connection is possible. There are numerous monitoring options available. You should not have to keep refreshing the app to see alarms as it's not designed to monitor the system.
I agree going through a monitoring station for an app is not right either. What I would like to see if an option of free app and free monitoring via the app at some level without the need for subscribing. Let's wait and see what comes from others as apps get more popular.