How did you progress to be a contractor (IT, banking etc)??

Carpet diem

Hi,

I'm have 5+ years experience in my field of work (Insurance) and basically I've always wanted to do contracting (6 months here, 3 months here and you get paid a lot more cash for it). Let's forget about the security element of having no job in the morning for again

To be a contractor you need to be on the ball and it's no cushy number I know that and you need to know your stuff. I really want to progress in the next two years in order to go contractor so I want to make a plan on how I will position myself and make myself "contractable".

So for ye contractors out there - how did ye make the cut and go about it and progress to this position?

Peterdalkey

Could be a great move if suitably qualified people with your insurance talents/experience are in very short supply. As long as they are, you could be busy. If the supply side catches up, a vacuum/void is abhorrent to the market, your rates will tumble and it costs the company nothing to throw you under the bus. I would have no clue as to the likely demand for insurance types other than it appears that actuaries are the guys who command the top dough.

Most people taking this jump actually have some decent work lined up before they take the final leap. Once sailing without a job safety net, solos are pretty much price takers, unless the have some very attractive attribute that the market wants to snap up.

micosoft

You need a specialised skill that is in demand BUT not continuously so that it would not make sense to hire a FTE for the role.
OR
Have a generic but in-demand skill that tend to have a demand spike in companies that you need to backfill.

I suspect "Insurance" does not fill either of these criteria but it really depends what exactly you do.

Ray Palmer

I just fell into it. While looking an agent suggested I take a contract. It was great 6 months work for a years salary. Been contracting now for 7 years.

I thought I would be able to do the whole 6 months here and then 6 months elsewhere and pick up work when I needed it. The reality is somewhat different.

Any company that takes you in for 6 months wants to be able to extend if they need it. So they aren't too keen on people who only want to come in for 6 months. Many companies might really want you for a couple of years but renew every 6 months rather than one big contract.

Once you have a year or two under your belt some permanent roles will be gone to you as companies suspect you will go contracting again if rates increase or the role become tough. They are right too as it does change your mind set. On the good side after gaining a bit of contracting work you are more appealing to the contract market.

You might also never want to work perm roles again as the wages seem so low. You also need to build a buffer of money for times there is not much contracting work about. Self discipline is important and if you don't have it you maybe better off not doing it or get somebody else to manage your accounts.

First time out it is best to use an umbrella company

Carpet diem

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I just fell into it. While looking an agent suggested I take a contract. It was great 6 months work for a years salary. Been contracting now for 7 years.

I thought I would be able to do the whole 6 months here and then 6 months elsewhere and pick up work when I needed it. The reality is somewhat different.

Any company that takes you in for 6 months wants to be able to extend if they need it. So they aren't too keen on people who only want to come in for 6 months. Many companies might really want you for a couple of years but renew every 6 months rather than one big contract.

Once you have a year or two under your belt some permanent roles will be gone to you as companies suspect you will go contracting again if rates increase or the role become tough. They are right too as it does change your mind set. On the good side after gaining a bit of contracting work you are more appealing to the contract market.

You might also never want to work perm roles again as the wages seem so low. You also need to build a buffer of money for times there is not much contracting work about. Self discipline is important and if you don't have it you maybe better off not doing it or get somebody else to manage your accounts.

First time out it is best to use an umbrella company

Ya staying in a company on contract sounds good to me. More money but less security there is risk reward trade off and the rewards I think are pretty good.

I can't quite understand what you mean about the bold part? Is it that they take you on contract work and try to lure you into a permanent role on crap money?

Ray Palmer

Carpet diem wrote: »

Ya staying in a company on contract sounds good to me. More money but less security there is risk reward trade off and the rewards I think are pretty good.

I can't quite understand what you mean about the bold part? Is it that they take you on contract work and try to lure you into a permanent role on crap money?

In fairness security in IT is pretty much non existent. In the last 7 years I have been in 4 companies that made redundancies. I really don't see much security in IT working for a company.

What I was referring to in bold is that if you decide to go for a perm role you may be ignored or disregarded. You are seen as likely to leave. The chances are if you are looking at perm roles the contract market has diminished. So you get a double whammy of not having an income and a restricted market you can work in. Companies know if the market improves you will go contracting again so won't hire you. Even if you genuinely want to go perm they may feel that way.

Contracting can be a bit of a trap as a result. In saying that you are likely to make more business contacts so may find it very easy to find a role when you want.

Just worth being aware of it but you can talk around it in an interview if you know it comes up and can be covered in cover letters too. "your company is so amazing I am want to go permanent and reduce my income":D

Carpet diem

Ray Palmer wrote: »

In fairness security in IT is pretty much non existent. In the last 7 years I have been in 4 companies that made redundancies. I really don't see much security in IT working for a company.

What I was referring to in bold is that if you decide to go for a perm role you may be ignored or disregarded. You are seen as likely to leave. The chances are if you are looking at perm roles the contract market has diminished. So you get a double whammy of not having an income and a restricted market you can work in. Companies know if the market improves you will go contracting again so won't hire you. Even if you genuinely want to go perm they may feel that way.

Contracting can be a bit of a trap as a result. In saying that you are likely to make more business contacts so may find it very easy to find a role when you want.

Just worth being aware of it but you can talk around it in an interview if you know it comes up and can be covered in cover letters too. "your company is so amazing I am want to go permanent and reduce my income":D

That's interesting - something I would never have thought off. Do you find you are pigeon holed on certain types of work?
i.e say you get a job in Java (for example I dont know anything about this as I'm in Insurance) will all you future contract work be around Java?

Do you think it's better to be Jack of all trade and master of none or the other way around?

ImDave

Do you think it's better to be Jack of all trade and master of none or the other way around?

From what I have seen, it can depend. If you can be an absolute expert in a specific piece of technology, you can command huge money for hourly or daily rates. The downside is, the more specialised your skill is, the more likely you are to have gaps in between contracts. This will not always be the case however.

Particularly in Ireland, being a small country, if you can become one of only a small handful of people regarded as expert, it can work out very well for you.

Stheno

Carpet diem wrote: »

Ya staying in a company on contract sounds good to me. More money but less security there is risk reward trade off and the rewards I think are pretty good.

I can't quite understand what you mean about the bold part? Is it that they take you on contract work and try to lure you into a permanent role on crap money?

Like Ray has said above, I've had several contract roles, some of which were five/six months long, and when going for permanent jobs afterwards those employers tend to look upon this with some suspicion, particularly if they are in organisations who tend to have staff work there for a long time without moving on.

To get started in contracting and make decent money, you really do need to have either a very specialised skillset and experience/qualifications, do the sort of work that is often of a project nature and so not worth hiring an FTE for, or that companies prefer to pay for the specialist skills for a short time to get their own staff up to speed.

Ray Palmer

Carpet diem wrote: »

That's interesting - something I would never have thought off. Do you find you are pigeon holed on certain types of work?
i.e say you get a job in Java (for example I dont know anything about this as I'm in Insurance) will all you future contract work be around Java?

Do you think it's better to be Jack of all trade and master of none or the other way around?

It depends on what you do. I work in testing so my skills aren't quite as specialised. If you are testing inputs and outputs the code it is written in doesn't matter so much. There are specialists in the market on particular automated products but even at that you can get these contracts if you are not the expert by having previous experience. It is a good way to get up-skilled. Take a cut in your rate to learn a new tool so you have an extra skill and can ask for a higher rate in your next place.

The more skills the better opportunity. You should be able to go into a company and make a suggestion to improve things. If you can't you should be able to take note of how well they do things. I write a profile on each place I work in so I remember how they do things and also to take note of what works. I can see myself in project management later on. There is contract work in project management.

The problem with some of the developers who are contractors they have to constantly up-skill so being a jack of all trades is a good way to go. You kind of have to predict the next developer demand. Where as what I do doesn't require that. In saying that you can plod along with on skill for a number of years but the rate goes down as more people can do the work and less demand.

I wouldn't say I have specialist insurance knowledge as that isn't really what I have. I have experience in data processing systems which is pretty much every system. There is very little difference to a system that processes a form for insurance versus a retail system. It just process different data to different rules.

Anybody technical will know this but HR sometimes need to have this spelt out so can sometimes be a barrier. Not their fault as they think you must have insurance knowledge. I have worked on stock market, retail, insurance etc... but essentially they are more a like than different just an emphasis on a particular nature of a system.

There is certainly pigeon holing which is more to do with progression upwards. Hard to become a manager as a contractor as you can't really get the opportunity. You can go from junior to senior easily and even a supervisor but becoming a manager is harder as you kind of need the experience before you can get the role. You don't get the experience as an actual manager as contractors are generally just resources to be used.

Peterdalkey

Really excellent thread with great incisive and insightful posts, which achieve a very blanced perspective on the topic. It will be a very useful resoource for those looking at going down the self-employed contractor route. Well done guys.

Carpet diem

Thanks for all the info guys. I work in FT job now so intend to get the most out of them.

For example I'm gonna get few course done paid by company.

I like the idea of taking stock of what you do. I was planning on doing that in work after pieces of work I do so I can build up a portfolio so to speak and also as a reference point.

Gone West

Ray Palmer wrote: »

HR

I've never had HR involved, and I've been contracting 7 or 8 years.
The technical manager will say, I need an X, je will agree a max daily rate* with a bean counter.
You meet the technical people, they offer you the job, HR are window dressing and there won't be a real HR interview.
The technical or project manager has always just decided this.
And I don't work in mickey mouse places, my skill set suits larger systems, which generally means lots of employees.

*max daily rates can be negotiated up every six months when they renew contracts

The best thing about contracting is this:
If you are a genuine expert, with an ability to deliver projects, to get companies out of huge technical messes, fix everything, and do it all yourself, then you are worth your weight in gold and they will pay what needs to be paid and be delighted to have you on board.
A smart company recognises this value, and they understand that it would take them lots of time and money to get their own team up-skilled (and motivated).

Atlas_IRL

Went from one tech giant into another within 4 days. Money is great but i'd prefer the security of an FTE position. The problem i now have is that full time roles pay 10-20k less than what i am earning as a contractor so it's hard going the other way. I only had half hour interviews for both jobs, if these were FTE roles i'd probably have 2-4 interviews.

I got relaxed in my last job and the contract did not get renewed a second time. Already my new contract is going to be extended because i am working my ass off. You have to work harder than anyone if you want to keep getting it extended.

Carpet diem

Atlas_IRL wrote: »

Went from one tech giant into another within 4 days. Money is great but i'd prefer the security of an FTE position. The problem i now have is that full time roles pay 10-20k less than what i am earning as a contractor so it's hard going the other way. I only had half hour interviews for both jobs, if these were FTE roles i'd probably have 2-4 interviews.

I got relaxed in my last job and the contract did not get renewed a second time. Already my new contract is going to be extended because i am working my ass off. You have to work harder than anyone if you want to keep getting it extended.

I guess you have to show are worth 10-20k more than people in FTE

Ray Palmer

Carpet diem wrote: »

I guess you have to show are worth 10-20k more than people in FTE

Not quite. A lot of the savings to the company are down to not having to pay all the extras for FT staff such as PRSI, pension, training etc..
Often you are brought in for a finite project. It is easier for the accounts to ring fence the costs so they pay extra not to have an on-going liability of more staff.

You can be in a company laying off staff and hiring contractors to work on a project. Sometimes there is a certain amount of resentment going on from staff too. Keeping your rate private is important. I was sitting beside a FTE and they found out my rate and they got very stroppy. I could see her point as I was getting about €35k more than her a year. She thought we were doing the same work but if you looked up the records I was doing about 80% more work than her. That went up when she got in a strop and kind of stopped working. She didn't see that I was determining the methodology that extra tools being used came from me and she even refused to learn to use tool unless she had formal training. No surprises when they moved her into another section they then closed it down and made her redundant.

Knowing your freeware alternatives is a valuable asset to a company so I would suggest doing that. Also try to learn configurations on bug tracking tools as often these are used very badly in companies without any understanding of how to set them up beyond the very basics.

Peterdalkey

Bringing in contract staff does have an interesting impact on the dynamic of the workplace. We use agency staff in production for busy periods/maternity leave etc. Their work rate tends to be very good and they pick-up some of the supposed "special" skills quite quickly, I find they have a positive output effect on their FTE peers. That said, I think most of them are looking to impress and get a permanent position!!

On more specialised project works, bringing in talent that you could never afford or perhaps even need to employ full-time consistently proves the old adage that it is the "value" not the price that is the key element. Quality is never the at cheapest price but is often the best value.

Ray Palmer

Peterdalkey wrote: »

Bringing in contract staff does have an interesting impact on the dynamic of the workplace. We use agency staff in production for busy periods/maternity leave etc. Their work rate tends to be very good and they pick-up some of the supposed "special" skills quite quickly, I find they have a positive output effect on their FTE peers. That said, I think most of them are looking to impress and get a permanent position!!
.

I have been offered permanent jobs in a few places after being on contract and I certainly didn't want to be an employee. A contractor is not really ever want to go permanent where as somebody on a contract might. There is a difference between the two.

It sounds like you are talking about fixed term contracts as opposed to daily rate contractors. They are worlds apart

Peterdalkey

We rarely, if ever, use contract staff for a fixed term. It is generally demad dependent and can vary from days to weeks to months. Obviously they are not in the highly skilled areas being discussed here. The point I was trying to make was how existing FTEs responded/reacted. The motivation of the contract person is of lttle interest to us as the employer.

Ray Palmer

Peterdalkey wrote: »

We rarely, if ever, use contract staff for a fixed term. It is generally demad dependent and can vary from days to weeks to months. Obviously they are not in the highly skilled areas being discussed here. The point I was trying to make was how existing FTEs responded/reacted. The motivation of the contract person is of lttle interest to us as the employer.

Then they sound like agency staff.
Some places you can be treated very badly as a contractor and staff can hate you. One place I was in they insisted the contractor took lunch at a different times to the FTE! There was even talk of us not being allowed into the subsidised canteen. There were 4 contractors and we rarely ate there as it was horrible so it was never a problem.

Showing up prem staff is something to be avoided but sometimes it just happens. I remember looking at something and they were saying there was no way this could be done and they had exhausted all methods. It took me about 5 minutes to do it in SQL. It then took about 3 hours to explain how it worked and that it did not "destabilise the whole system" as one of the staff claimed. Instead of being grateful one of them tried to bully and intimidate me the entire time I was there. It was like watching a child try to out smart an adult. The money was amazing though so I put up with it

Carpet diem

Very interesting insight into the relationship dynamics between contractors and FTE and thanks a lot for the advice so far.

Since I started this thread and after listening to ye guys I have made a plan for myself that will be based around work I do in the next year.

Steps:
1 - I need to become an expert in the particular area I work in (this areas covers a lot of stuff but at least what I do in work in next while I will become proficient at.

2- After each task I will do a summary of what I learned- methods, what worked, what didn't, what I would do differently

3- I will do a few courses that work will pay for. One actually is personal tax planning which I think will come in handy and others will be more programming type stuff.

4 - I will attend more of the CPD event and actually takes notes and take them more seriously and keep up to date of recent developments

5 - I will start going to Toastmasters after xmas and get confident of public speaking, gettin my point across and in general it will help with interviews of which I'm sure there will be many.

Feel free to add to my list ?

pedroeibar1

The steps you‘ve outlined are really very basic, some are unnecessary (for e.g. tax planning - unless you are an accountant) and many should be taken as a given.

In your opening post you said you have 5+ years experience in insurance and you want to work as a contractor. I don’t want to rain on your parade, but 5 years is nothing. To succeed as a contractor in today’s market, to earn even adequate money, you have to be at the top of the game and after 5 years you cannot be anywhere near it unless it is in a menial role. Sure, you can amble along, but it will be at the bottom. Five years of experience in the insurance sector (one that is full of ‘lifers’) and your lack of experience will show and all you will get (if you are lucky) is a very junior i.e. lowpaid role. You need to establish your name and reputation; otherwise you will join the ‘also-rans’ in competing for the crumbs.

Stay where you are in FTE, get your FCII and, if you can, a degree in your area of specialisation. Then the profitable work will open up for you as a contractor because you will be taken seriously.

Along the way you will have made the contacts and established your reputation. The best jobs (not just in contracting) are never advertised, there are no interviews, you simply are approached with ‘We have a job we would like you to consider....” To get to that stage you need a network. Build one. Today many contractors in the insurance sector are those who have been laid off and are trying hard to get FTE. There is a reason for that. Want a mortgage? Try getting one as a contractor! There will be many more contractors added to the insurance sector in the coming years, read the papers.

That said, working as a contractor can be highly rewarding because of the varied work, the variety of problems seen, the issues that need to be resolved, etc. It also is highly lucrative monetarily, at the top end 4 months work is about the same as 12 mths in FTE. But you need a big cushion to survive without panic between assignments.

Carpet diem

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

The steps you‘ve outlined are really very basic, some are unnecessary (for e.g. tax planning - unless you are an accountant) and many should be taken as a given.

In your opening post you said you have 5+ years experience in insurance and you want to work as a contractor. I don’t want to rain on your parade, but 5 years is nothing. To succeed as a contractor in today’s market, to earn even adequate money, you have to be at the top of the game and after 5 years you cannot be anywhere near it unless it is in a menial role. Sure, you can amble along, but it will be at the bottom. Five years of experience in the insurance sector (one that is full of ‘lifers’) and your lack of experience will show and all you will get (if you are lucky) is a very junior i.e. lowpaid role. You need to establish your name and reputation; otherwise you will join the ‘also-rans’ in competing for the crumbs.

Stay where you are in FTE, get your FCII and, if you can, a degree in your area of specialisation. Then the profitable work will open up for you as a contractor because you will be taken seriously.

Along the way you will have made the contacts and established your reputation. The best jobs (not just in contracting) are never advertised, there are no interviews, you simply are approached with ‘We have a job we would like you to consider....” To get to that stage you need a network. Build one. Today many contractors in the insurance sector are those who have been laid off and are trying hard to get FTE. There is a reason for that. Want a mortgage? Try getting one as a contractor! There will be many more contractors added to the insurance sector in the coming years, read the papers.

That said, working as a contractor can be highly rewarding because of the varied work, the variety of problems seen, the issues that need to be resolved, etc. It also is highly lucrative monetarily, at the top end 4 months work is about the same as 12 mths in FTE. But you need a big cushion to survive without panic between assignments.

The mortgage part is interesting!
I wouldn't agree with 5 years being too little. I don't really expect to be earning top buck until a few years at it ( if i do go at it). You gotta start somewhere and get the foot in the door and area I'm in people go contracting after even 2 years. It just depends on the person and their ability IMO.

But i take the rest on board as solid advice. I've steps up there - might seem simple to you but each to their own. They're areas I feel I need to work on.

Ray Palmer

5 years maybe plenty, it depends on what you know. I know people who have been contracting straight out of college.
Keep an eye on the job ads and you will see what is required.

I would learn agile development processes as that is so popular in projects now that it is normally a requirement now. Most places do their own version so I wouldn't take the methodology to rigidly.