Looking for advice on aftermarket xenon lights

Johnny Utah

I’m thinking of getting a set of aftermarket xenon lights (similar to the kit in the link below) for my own car and I would appreciate any advice on the matter as I’ve never had a car with xenon/HID lights before. I only intend to fit the HID kit to the dipped beam, which has a projector lens and, therefore, shouldn’t blind oncoming drivers.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/H7-4K-AC-HID-Xenon-Conversion-Kit-BMW-3-Series-318-Ci-TF16199-/350770466599?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3ABMW|Plat_Gen%3AE46&hash=item51ab8c8f27



Should the HID kit offer a big improvement over the standard halogen headlights as fitted on my car?

Will they pass the NCT?

Also, is there any place you would recommend to have the kit supplied and fitted?


Thanks.

colm_mcm

You'll need working headlamp washers to pass nct.

vectra

You will also most likely need a Canbus HID kit as those ones are not.
If you fit hose you wil have to get coding done.

Also
I would not buy that particular kit as it does not state which bulbs are included and could possibly be the plastic crap based ones which can melt and destroy your headlamp unit.

Again you will have to decide if you want to fit
4200k or 5000k bulbs.

I have 5000k fitted to my currnet car and to my sons E46.

I prefer them to 4200k
But that is just personal preference as I find the 5k whiter than the 4300k


This kit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E83-X3-H7-HID-Xenon-Conversion-Kit-Slim-Ballast-/270702424278?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f071f30d6

Johnny Utah

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, I agree, the 5000k colour bulbs definitely look the best.
I currently have a set of halogen bulbs with a colour temperature of 5000k fitted on my car, which give them the appearance of xenon lights, but I would like to fit a proper xenon kit because the light output from my current setup is quite poor to be honest.



Also, why is there such a huge difference in cost between a set of factory fitted xenon lights and the aftermarket xenon kits? Is there a big difference in performance?

A few months ago, there was a thread on here about the option of fitting of xenon lights to a new VW Golf. I remember that the cost for factory fitted xenons was very expensive and there was a lot of debate as to whether they were worth it.

colm_mcm wrote: »

You'll need working headlamp washers to pass nct.

Yeah, I was somewhat concerned about that. I don't have headlight washers fitted to my car.

Do you think the NCT would actually check for the presence of headlight washers?

A lot of cars seem to have aftermarket HID kits fitted and I assume they don't all have headlight washing systems in place?

colm_mcm

Johnny Utah wrote: »

A lot of cars seem to have aftermarket HID kits fitted and I assume they don't all have headlight washing systems in place?

You probably see them on one of the 364 days they don't have the nct

Johnny Utah

What about this particular kit?

It has the bulbs with a metal base.


This seller has got some good reviews on adverts and on the motors forum here...

http://www.adverts.ie/car-parts-accessories/hid-xenon-kits-4300k-6000k-8000k-can-bus-no-obc-error/655787

Johnny Utah

[bump]

Any opinions on the kit I linked to in post #6 above?

vectra

^ The look fine

ardle1

Please be aware, after market HID's do emit fm signals, basically across the whole length of wiring from ballast, so need to be 'completely' insulated with copper tape and 'then' grounded to body!!! these fm signals can interfere with mobile radio's in taxis and haulage vehicles...Also possible interference with GPS systems!

vectra

ardle1 wrote: »

Please be aware, after market HID's do emit fm signals, basically across the whole length of wiring from ballast, so need to be 'completely' insulated with copper tape and 'then' grounded to body!!! these fm signals can interfere with mobile radio's in taxis and haulage vehicles...Also possible interference with GPS systems!

Just when I thought I had heard them all. :pac:

SleeperService

vectra wrote: »

Just when I thought I had heard them all. :pac:

In fairness, cheap and nasty Chinese stuff is likely to have shocking EMC. Cutting corners on ballasts for a few cents here, few cents there could see you emitting all sortsa crap.

Genuine CE marked stuff should be EMC tested before release but who's to say if a set from Golden Dragon Much Shiney Electronic have been.

vectra

SleeperService wrote: »

In fairness, cheap and nasty Chinese stuff is likely to have shocking EMC. Cutting corners on ballasts for a few cents here, few cents there could see you emitting all sortsa crap.

Genuine CE marked stuff should be EMC tested before release but who's to say if a set from Golden Dragon Much Shiney Electronic have been.

You could be right.

This is why I buy my kits from Londoncolor on Ebay.

Wibbs

colm_mcm wrote: »

You'll need working headlamp washers to pass nct.

Nope you don't. I have factory fitted xenons and no headlamp washers and no issues at all with the NCT. Quite a few cars pre mid 2000s came without washers, but had xenons/HID's as standard.

dougie-lampkin

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope you don't. I have factory fitted xenons and no headlamp washers and no issues at all with the NCT. Quite a few cars pre mid 2000s came without washers, but had xenons/HID's as standard.

I agree with you Wibbs, and I have had a car with HIDs pass without washers but with levelling suspension. But, the NCT manual is very clear that ALL HID systems must have a "cleaning device", there's no exceptions in the manual.

vectra wrote: »

You could be right.

This is why I buy my kits from Londoncolor on Ebay.

I'm sorry but this guy is just reselling the same stuff as the Chinese guys at a higher price.

www.ebay.ie/itm/330380961486 = www.ebay.ie/itm/370978798474

Don't get me wrong, I'm using the same pair of eBay special ballasts for the last ~4 years across as many cars and they're yet to give me any issues. But you're only fooling yourself if you think any new ballasts costing ~€15 are close to OE quality and reliability. There's a reason an OE ballast costs this much, and that's not even a quarter of what a dealer would charge for one :eek:

There are no OE quality AMP style ballasts I know of, your best bet is to find an OEM Denso or Matsushita ballast and make up your own D2S -> AMP connector. Then the other issue is that there's no OE quality bulbs outside of D2S/D2R/etc, although there are some very tasty Philips 85122 rebased to H1/H7 available, these are as good as it gets for retrofits.

Wibbs

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

I agree with you Wibbs, and I have had a car with HIDs pass without washers but with levelling suspension. But, the NCT manual is very clear that ALL HID systems must have a "cleaning device", there's no exceptions in the manual.

Christ you are kidding me DL? Clearly not as it's in the manual. Bloody hell. Well then it's a manual where for that section someone quite simply didn't know their facts. Morons. :rolleyes:

There are many cars out there that were factory fitted with xenons/HID's that don't have either self leveling or "cleaning devices"(in my cars case the latter duty would fall to me so that's one box ticked ). My car has neither, my mates mid noughties Mercedes with HID's certainly doesn't have the washers though may have the self leveling doodaa. Both have sailed through seven NCT's each. If my car failed for that I'd be engaging a solicitor in double quick time. Clearly Mr Honda and Mr Mercedes don't know how to build cars... Thankfully it seems the NCT lads on the ground know better than the idiot(s) who wrote the manual and don't even pass comment on the matter.

TL;DR? If you have OEM Xenon the manual may say no, but the NCT guys will pass you and if they don't then cause an unholy stink about it as it's a nonsense.

Maybe - and I'm clutching at straws here - maybe the "mandatory" part is for cars built after a certain date where it became EU law to have both fitted and those writing the manual weren't clear on that?

For non factory fitted I can see an issue alright. I wonder if in the case where a more specced out version of a car model had them and you retrofitted them into the lower spec one would that be an issue given they're OEM?

I'd agree with you re the ballasts and with most of the cheapo kits you can usually spot them a mile off and not in a good way. While OEM stuff can be mad money, there is nearly always a good reason why they're more expensive, even taking into account inflated pricing.

Johnny Utah

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

I'm sorry but this guy is just reselling the same stuff as the Chinese guys at a higher price.

Oh great, I was just about to buy a kit off Londoncolour, but now I'm even more confused...

So, can anyone actually recommend a good quality HID kit for about €100 - €150?

HIDsdirect.co.uk seem to be fairly reputable... anyone have experience of their kits?

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

I agree with you Wibbs, and I have had a car with HIDs pass without washers but with levelling suspension. But, the NCT manual is very clear that ALL HID systems must have a "cleaning device", there's no exceptions in the manual.

I'd tend to agree with Wibbs here; firstly, I'm not sure whether that table is from the official NCT Testing manual, but it looks like a layman's version of the legislation behind the test. It's just a simplified version of what the test involves. The actual legislation, which the NCT crowd enforce by virtue of the car test, will be far more complex.

Furthermore, clearly there were cars produced before the mid-noughties which had factory fitted xenon headlights without a washer system. It would be absurd to subsequently make these cars illegal, when the owner has not modified the original factory-fitted features of the car.

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe - and I'm clutching at straws here - maybe the "mandatory" part is for cars built after a certain date where it became EU law to have both fitted and those writing the manual weren't clear on that?

I imagine there's probably an EU Reg from around 2004 directed at all car manufacturers selling cars in the EU which stipulates that xenon headlights must have washers and be auto-levelling. Wouldn't apply to cars manufactured prior to this point obviously.

Tbh, having seen the headlight washing system in action, I don't really see the merits of having one. In my experience, it just tends to leave a bit of mess everywhere, which I would find annoying if I just finished washing the car a few minutes before activivating the wipers!


Anyway, this is going slightly off topic, so can someone please recommend a good quality aftermarket HID kit?

dougie-lampkin

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Oh great, I was just about to buy a kit off Londoncolour, but now I'm even more confused...

So, can anyone actually recommend a good quality HID kit for about €100 - €150?

HIDsdirect.co.uk seem to be fairly reputable... anyone have experience of their kits?

If you have a budget that size, please don't waste your money on PnP HIDs. You may as well buy the cheapest set you can find on eBay coming from the UK in that case, they're all coming from the same factory regardless.

If you're willing to spend that much, and do it right, get a proper retrofit kit, like this one. It replaces your halogen projector with a full bi-xenon projector. It's the only right way to do it, short of fitting a set of OEM xenon lamps if they're an option. These will pass the NCT, and put out far more light than any PnP options. If I'm driving behind somebody with PnP HIDs, my lights are visible over theirs.

Your link for HIDs was for an E46, is that what you're driving? In that case disregard my previous paragraph, your job is even easier. The E46 is almost unique in that the lenses are designed to be removable and replaceable. Changing the projectors requires removing the lens which is a bit of a pain on other cars. The E46 is also almost unique in that OEM Hella bi-xenons are a straight swap. The crowd I linked to also supply these. You'll need to add HID burners and ballasts onto this, but you could source those cheaper from eBay. For reference, these would be roughly equivalent to bi-xenons you'd see on a relatively new German car, they're quite bright in HID terms and they'll walk all over halogens.

This is not the same as adding HIDs to your current projectors. Aside from the bi-xenon which gives you low and high beams from the one projector (giving you 4 high beams, which is incredibly useful), halogen projectors are not the same internally as HID projectors, they have different optics to best utilise the bulb they're designed for. If you add HIDs to your current projectors, you'll end up with a net loss of light. Here's an example of the difference, illustrated by an A4: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/317761-PnP-HID-in-halogen-projectors?p=4356270&viewfull=1#post4356270

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I'd tend to agree with Wibbs here; firstly, I'm not sure whether that table is from the official NCT Testing manual, but it looks like a layman's version of the legislation behind the test. It's just a simplified version of what the test involves. The actual legislation, which the NCT crowd enforce by virtue of the car test, will be far more complex.

Furthermore, clearly there were cars produced before the mid-noughties which had factory fitted xenon headlights without a washer system. It would be absurd to subsequently make these cars illegal, when the owner has not modified the original factory-fitted features of the car.

Unfortunately that's a direct quote from the manual, that table is the only list of failure items for headlamps. That's my point, it's bizarre that they can retrospectively decide ALL cars must have washers and levelling. It'd be a bit like turning up for the test in an 80's car and failing for legitimate silver on black number plates or absent rear seatbelts. But thankfully, the testers do seem to be applying common sense on this one, both myself and Wibbs have had HIDs without washers passed.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Tbh, having seen the headlight washing system in action, I don't really see the merits of having one. In my experience, it just tends to leave a bit of mess everywhere, which I would find annoying if I just finished washing the car a few minutes before activivating the wipers!

If you wash your car more than once a year and don't partake in special stage rallies, you probably don't need washers. After not washing my car for a couple of weeks, there still isn't a visible amount of dirt on the headlamps, and the beams aren't affected. Your mileage may vary depending on where you live, but I haven't seen the need to fit them. The thoughts of soapy water sitting on freshly waxed paint is enough reason not to fit them :eek:

vectra

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

If you have a budget that size, please don't waste your money on PnP HIDs. You may as well buy the cheapest set you can find on eBay coming from the UK in that case, they're all coming from the same factory regardless.

And right there you could not be further from the truth

The cheapest sets from China and on Ebay will come with plastic based bulbs.

The ones from Londoncolor have metal based bulbs.

I for one have had no problems with them, I have used 6 sets of them in total
Over on the briskoda forum they are the only ones recommended.

I would say less than a handfull have had any sort of issue with them,
out of those handfull the majority was down to user ill fitting/coding.

dougie-lampkin

Philips 85122 in D2S, the output standard which other bulbs try and match, and made by one of the biggest HID suppliers, uses a plastic base. So what? Same with Osram OEM D2S bulbs like the 66040, that come from the factory on most German HID equipped cars, plastic bases there too. If two of the world's biggest lighting manufacturers can use plastic bases, I don't know why you'd think metal bases are desirable or necessary.

Where do you think the capsule on your burners came from? If you're happier using metal bases, then by all means do (although it's really not necessary), but you're mistaken if you think the capsule itself is of higher quality to any of the other eBay specials. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the quality is dire, I had eBay specials up until recently also. Even the cheapest set of burners you can find will do the job, I've never had a set fail.

Ballasts on the other hand are a minefield, I've had two pairs that looked identical, both paired with 4.3 K bulbs, one pair of ballasts gave out a warm white colour, the other a mild blue. There's no real quality control on ballasts, which seems to be the issue. I'd guess a good 90% of problems with eBay HID kits is from the ballasts. I've had the most success with ballasts similar to the ones you linked above, I'm using these at the moment with 5 K bulbs and the colour is spot on.

vectra

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

Philips 85122 in D2S, the output standard which other bulbs try and match, and made by one of the biggest HID suppliers, uses a plastic base. So what? Same with Osram OEM D2S bulbs like the 66040, that come from the factory on most German HID equipped cars, plastic bases there too. If two of the world's biggest lighting manufacturers can use plastic bases, I don't know why you'd think metal bases are desirable or necessary.

Did not bother reading all the jargon about where burner come from but to tell you why I prefer metal based bulbs to plastic ones.
I have witnessed 3 sets of those plastic ones where a bulb melted at the base.
One of those happened to be fitted to an anni, golf and cost the owner somewhere in the region of €400 to replace,

Have yet to hear of a metal based one melting.
Have you?

But then every man to his own.
I am happy with the Londoncolor kits as I am sure 000's of buyers are.

I am also suggesting to the OP to answer his question, not to enter a debate as to why OE units are better or not.

Can you get an OE kit for him within his budget?

dougie-lampkin

There's no jargon, I merely pointed out that OEM xenon capsules come with plastic bases. And I've yet to hear of these melting. If you can't "be bothered" to read a post you disagree with, why bother posting on this thread at all?

I don't even see the point of those metal bases, when there's plastic surrounding the capsule itself? The base wont melt, but the rest of the bulb will!

I did show the OP a set of OEM Hella bi-xenons on the assumption he has an e46, at the upper end of the budget, but vastly superior to anything else you could put in there. But as he hasn't even told us what he drives, it would be quite difficult to suggest OE lamps.

vectra

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

There's no jargon, I merely pointed out that OEM xenon capsules come with plastic bases. And I've yet to hear of these melting. If you can't "be bothered" to read a post you disagree with, why bother posting on this thread at all?

.

The reason I am posting is to answer the OP's question.
I might ask you the same
why are you posting about extremely expensive items when that was not what the topic was about.?

dougie-lampkin

I wouldn't consider it extremely expensive, the OP said he has a budget of €100-150 so he must not consider it ludicrously expensive either. If the OP does indeed have an e46, then OE bi-xenons are attainable for that budget. Why put in H7 HIDs in that case?

vectra

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it extremely expensive, the OP said he has a budget of €100-150 so he must not consider it ludicrously expensive either. If the OP does indeed have an e46, then OE bi-xenons are attainable for that budget. Why put in H7 HIDs in that case?

Have you got a link to the kit available please for the e46 as my son has one.
I would be interested at that price for a set of OE Bi-Xenons.

Thanks

dougie-lampkin

The link is in my reply to the OP. By the time you add shipping and source bulbs and ballasts it will come in slightly above budget, but I'd liken it to fitting premium tyres over budget Chinese rubber, you'll appreciate that extra €20-30 at some point when you have a near miss. You would probably have bulbs and ballasts already though, and the e46 has possibly the easiest set of lamps made to modify.

I'm not really interested in having an argument over the internet on car lighting, as I'm sure you're not, so I'm going to leave it there unless the OP looks for advice.

Johnny Utah

Hi,

I just wanted to give a quick update on this. In the end, I decided not to go ahead with the aftermarket HID upgrade because I was tipped off on another BMW motoring forum that the NCT were about to introduce strict enforcement of all rules regarding aftermarket HID kits. In other words, a car with aftermarket HIDs wouldn't pass the NCT if it didn't also have a headlight cleaning system.

So, I decided not to go ahead as it would be a bit of hassle trying to fit a headlight washer system and would add more expense too.

However, I was thinking about this upgrade again recently as the halogen lights on my car are pretty poor on dark country roads. I researched the job involved in fitting headlight washers to an E46 and it seems to be relatively straightforward.

My only concern is that I don't think my car has auto-levelling headlights and this may be a problem when it comes to the NCT. However, I also noticed that the section of the NCT manual on xenon headlights says that the car must have the auto-levelling feature OR a manual adjustment switch at the driver's seat. Are these alternative options or is it just badly phrased in the NCT manual?

My car is a BMW e46 and it has a manual adjustment switch to the right of the steering wheel. So, my question is:
If I fitted a set of good quality aftermarket HID lights (in projector lenses) and I also fitted a headlight cleaning system (using BMW parts), would my car pass the NCT?

Or, is it a case that I would also have to install an auto-levelling feature to the headlights in order to pass the NCT?

Johnny Utah

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Hi,

I just wanted to give a quick update on this. In the end, I decided not to go ahead with the aftermarket HID upgrade because I was tipped off on another BMW motoring forum that the NCT were about to introduce strict enforcement of all rules regarding aftermarket HID kits. In other words, a car with aftermarket HIDs wouldn't pass the NCT if it didn't also have a headlight cleaning system.

So, I decided not to go ahead as it would be a bit of hassle trying to fit a headlight washer system and would add more expense too.

However, I was thinking about this upgrade again recently as the halogen lights on my car are pretty poor on dark country roads. I researched the job involved in fitting headlight washers to an E46 and it seems to be relatively straightforward.

My only concern is that I don't think my car has auto-levelling headlights and this may be a problem when it comes to the NCT. However, I also noticed that the section of the NCT manual on xenon headlights says that the car must have the auto-levelling feature OR a manual adjustment switch at the driver's seat. Are these alternative options or is it just badly phrased in the NCT manual?

My car is a BMW e46 and it has a manual adjustment switch to the right of the steering wheel. So, my question is:
If I fitted a set of good quality aftermarket HID lights (in projector lenses) and I also fitted a headlight cleaning system (using BMW parts), would my car pass the NCT?

Or, is it a case that I would also have to install an auto-levelling feature to the headlights in order to pass the NCT?

[Bump]

Anyone have an opinion on the post above?

Has anyone been through the NCT recently with an aftermarket xenon kit and a retrofitted headlight washer system?

challengemaster

Yours isn't a saloon by any chance? Or what year coupe?

Johnny Utah

challengemaster wrote: »

Yours isn't a saloon by any chance? Or what year coupe?

2004 Coupe. It's the e46 facelift coupe. The facelift headlights are quite expensive to buy second hand.

challengemaster

Ah yeah, you're nearly as easy leave the halogens. I'm the same, 2005 e46 Coupe.

The retrofit is a pain in the hole, I keep considering it now and again and deciding it's not worth it in the end.