Arnotts Screw Up

EaSwe

So I ordered a bag as a Christmas present off Arnotts online. When the order came I found that they had instead sent out a purse with a similar design, but not the bag I payed for. So, emailed Arnotts, no reply. Called them this evening, to discover that they had in fact screwed up on their website. Apparently some sort of mix up had occured where they described the purse as as bag, and used the picture of the bag on the listing.
The girl from Arnotts made it clear that they would no longer fulfill my order of the bag, and basically said my only option was to accept a refund. I was unhappy with this and made this very clear. Surely if you offer something for sale, and someone has bought the product and paid for it that they should honour the original order accepting their mistake. The girl from Arnotts took what I said onboard but said it beyond her control, and that she would pass it on to her manager on Monday.

So am I in the right? And even if I'm not legally in the right is it not bad form for Arnotts to refuse to honour my order

Thanks in advance

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Did you pay the price for a purse or a bag?

EaSwe

Zaria Tiny Ticket wrote: »

Did you pay the price for a purse or a bag?

I paid the price listed for the bag. This should have been the price of the purse. The bag actually costs more.

goz83

As long as the price isn't an overwhelming and obvious mistake, then I think they should honour it. They advertised something online and priced it, so should fulfil your order unless the purse costs €20 and the bag costs €200.

slimjimmc

EaSwe wrote: »

So am I in the right?

Nope.
It's perfect valid for the retailer to offer a refund especially if they don't have the correct item in stock.

EaSwe wrote: »

And even if I'm not legally in the right is it not bad form for Arnotts to refuse to honour my order

Like above, it's not bad form if they can't supply the bag you want.

EaSwe

The difference was sizeable (€140 v €275) But not exactly an obvious mistake given some of the other bags similar bags are around the same price.

EaSwe

slimjimmc wrote: »

Nope.
It's perfect valid for the retailer to offer a refund especially if they don't have the correct item in stock.


Like above, it's not bad form if they can't supply the bag you want.

But she did say to me they did have the bag in stock, BUT that she wouldn't fulfill my order because of the price difference.

slimjimmc

EaSwe wrote: »

But she did say to me they did have the bag in stock, BUT that she wouldn't fulfill my order because of the price difference.

Ok, that is new information.

I'm guessing they probably need authorisation to bill your card for the extra and the only way their system/procedures will allow that is to ask you to re-order.


[Edit : just saw you paid the price for the the bag so no extra authourisation should be needed]

EaSwe

slimjimmc wrote: »

Ok, that is new information.

I'm guessing they probably need authorisation to bill your card for the extra and the only way their system/procedures will allow that is to ask you to re-order.

I don't think your getting the point I'm trying to make. They said they inputted the information onto the site incorrectly. The product page should have been for the purse (€140) but instead showed the bag (worth€275) and used the word bag in the description and showed two pictures of the bag. I paid €140 for what I thought was the bag. Only when I called thinking it was a simple wrong item error,that the mistake on their website came to light.

Should Arnotts, still fulfill the order of the bag which I made, despite their error?Sorry if I wasn't entirely clear the first time

B0X

They're not going to take a €135 loss because someone input some numbers wrong into a website, humans make mistakes. I dont think Arnotts are doing anything wrong by not offering you the bag. They've offered the refund as they're legally supposed to, I'd just take it tbh.

You see this kind of stuff on bargain alerts all the time where something is mispriced and people jump on the bandwagon hoping the retailer will honour it.

Thoie

EaSwe wrote: »

Should Arnotts, still fulfill the order of the bag which I made, despite their error?Sorry if I wasn't entirely clear the first time

From their T&Cs

PRICE OF GOODS
The price listed on the Website (the 'price') for Arnotts products (the "products") will be as stipulated at the time when you place your order on the website. We are entitled to make adjustments to the price to take account of any increase in our supplier's prices, or the imposition of any new taxes or duties, or if due to an error or omission the price for the products on the Website is wrong.

See more at: http://www.arnotts.ie/content/Terms-and-Conditions/408#sthash.nK7FIoiR.dpuf

EaSwe

PRICE OF GOODS
The price listed on the Website (the 'price') for Arnotts products (the "products") will be as stipulated at the time when you place your order on the website. We are entitled to make adjustments to the price to take account of any increase in our supplier's prices, or the imposition of any new taxes or duties, or if due to an error or omission the price for the products on the Website is wrong.

That last bit doesn't seem to quite fit what happened to me. They don't want to 'make adjustments', they just want to get the purse back and refund me. Does, Sale of Goods and Supply of Services act "as described" bit apply.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

EaSwe wrote: »

That last bit doesn't seem to quite fit what happened to me. They don't want to 'make adjustments', they just want to get the purse back and refund me. Does, Sale of Goods and Supply of Services act "as described" bit apply.

Yes, the sale of good and supply of services act applies to this sale. Does the receipt for online payment say that the item that you purchased was a bag, cos if it does, that's the legal contract that Arnott's entered in to to provide you with. Has the transaction and debit shown up on your bank account cos if it has they're obliged to supply you with the goods and services that you purchased. And as for their T&C's - familiarize yourself with what constitutes an unfair term in a consumer contract under EU law. It seems to me that the last bit of the section quoted below is an unfair term in so far as it's far too heavily weighted in the favour of Arnotts to the detriment of consumers and their rights.

"PRICE OF GOODS
The price listed on the Website (the 'price') for Arnotts products (the "products") will be as stipulated at the time when you place your order on the website. We are entitled to make adjustments to the price to take account of any increase in our supplier's prices, or the imposition of any new taxes or duties, or if due to an error or omission the price for the products on the Website is wrong."

I wouldn't bother phoning arnotts....write a letter setting down the law....and giving them 14 days notice to supply you with the goods that you purchased. Failing that, tell them that you'll have no hesitation whatsoever taking them through the small claims process and registering a judgement against them if they fail to provide you with the goods that you purchased.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31993L0013:en:HTML

EaSwe

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

Yes, the sale of good and supply of services act applies to this sale. Does the receipt for online payment say that the item that you purchased was a bag, cos if it does, that's the legal contract that Arnott's entered in to to provide you with. Has the transaction and debit shown up on your bank account cos if it has they're obliged to supply you with the goods and services that you purchased.

I payed with PayPal and the receipt from them, as well as my confirmation email say that it was a bag and give the name of the bag.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

EaSwe wrote: »

I payed with PayPal and the receipt from them, as well as my confirmation email say that it was a bag and give the name of the bag.

Then that's the contract.

Here's some info on what constitutes an unfair term.

There's a directive under EU law called Directive 93/13/EEC on an unfair term in a consumer contract and Article 3 defines an unfair term as;

1. A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

2. A term shall always be regarded as not individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term, particularly in the context of a pre-formulated standard contract.

The fact that certain aspects of a term or one specific term have been individually negotiated shall not exclude the application of this Article to the rest of a contract if an overall assessment of the contract indicates that it is nevertheless a pre-formulated standard contract.

Where any seller or supplier claims that a standard term has been individually negotiated, the burden of proof in this respect shall be incumbent on him.

Unfair terms within the meaning of article 3 includes;

a. Inappropriately excluding or limiting the legal rights of the consumer vis-à-vis the seller or supplier or another party in the event of total or partial non-performance or inadequate performance by the seller or supplier of any of the contractual obligations, including the option of offsetting a debt owed to the seller or supplier against any claim which the consumer may have against him;

b. Making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realization depends on his own will alone;

c. Permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;

d. Requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

e. Irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

f. Obliging the consumer to fulfil all his obligations where the seller or supplier does not perform his.

slimjimmc

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

Yes, the sale of good and supply of services act applies to this sale. Does the receipt for online payment say that the item that you purchased was a bag, cos if it does, that's the legal contract that Arnott's entered in to to provide you with. Has the transaction and debit shown up on your bank account cos if it has they're obliged to supply you with the goods and services that you purchased. And as for their T&C's - familiarize yourself with what constitutes an unfair term in a consumer contract under EU law. It seems to me that the last bit of the section quoted below is an unfair term in so far as it's far too heavily weighted in the favour of Arnotts to the detriment of consumers and their rights.

"PRICE OF GOODS
The price listed on the Website (the 'price') for Arnotts products (the "products") will be as stipulated at the time when you place your order on the website. We are entitled to make adjustments to the price to take account of any increase in our supplier's prices, or the imposition of any new taxes or duties, or if due to an error or omission the price for the products on the Website is wrong."

I wouldn't bother phoning arnotts....write a letter setting down the law....and giving them 14 days notice to supply you with the goods that you purchased. Failing that, tell them that you'll have no hesitation whatsoever taking them through the small claims process and registering a judgement against them if they fail to provide you with the goods that you purchased.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31993L0013:en:HTML

One can discuss the rights/wrongs/legalities to the cows come home but in the end of the day if the OP wants the bag in time for Christmas he/she has to be practical. By time it ends up in the SCC the OP could have followed Arnott's procedure, received the refund, re-ordered the correct item and made someone happy over Christmas.
Anyway, there's a fair chance the SCC would likely agree that Arnotts offering a refund was very reasonable considering it is one of the 3 forms of redress specified in law.

S/He might win the battle but lost the war.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

slimjimmc wrote: »

One can discuss the rights/wrongs/legalities to the cows come home but in the end of the day if the OP wants the bag in time for Christmas he/she has to be practical. By time it ends up in the SCC the OP could have followed Arnott's procedure, received the refund, re-ordered the correct item and made someone happy over Christmas.
Anyway, there's a fair chance the SCC would likely agree that Arnotts offering a refund was very reasonable considering it is one of the 3 forms of redress specified in law.

S/He might win the battle but lost the war.

Very much doubt it....Arnott's advertised the bag for sale online at €140....and the customer bought and paid for that item at the agreed price. That's the legal contract, and you cannot go around renegotiating a contract without the prior agreement of all individuals who were party to that contract. This is not a case of Arnott's supplying the purchaser with a faulty product which is where a repair, replacement and repair comes in.

slimjimmc

Like I said, one can go the SCC route if you want but I imagine the OP's primary concern is getting the gift in time for Christmas. With less than 3 calendar weeks left I seriously don't see how that could be achieved by going legal, and I doubt you'd even get a sitting this year.

EaSwe

Thanks for the replies,

I think the best course of action for now, is to write to Arnotts about this. I have pasted in below the letter Im going to post to Arnotts. I obviously dont want to go down the SCC route.

I've drafted a letter to post to them. Will i post it here?

foggy_lad

OP ordered a BAG for €140

Arnotts don't sell a bag at that price and because it was an error on the website they delivered the correct item a PURSE costing €140.

OP now wants to return the purse and get the bag at the same price which obviously Arnotts will not do.

The best they COULD do is to cancel the order and allow the op reorder the bag at the correct price and throw in some goodwill vouchers.

What they might do if pushed is as little as possible.

They made a mistake on the website and at the moment OP you have what you paid for, if you don't want it then return it for a refund and move on!

slimjimmc

EaSwe wrote: »

Thanks for the replies,

I think the best course of action for now, is to write to Arnotts about this. I have pasted in below the letter Im going to post to Arnotts. I obviously dont want to go down the SCC route.

I've drafted a letter to post to them. Will i post it here?

It's Friday night, you only spoke to Arnotts a few hours ago. Why not give the girl a chance to talk to her manager on Monday as she sad she would do and then you ring them on Monday afternoon if you hear nothing, or if you wish just ring on Monday morning and speak to the manager yourself.

EaSwe

Maybe I'm being a bit hasty.

The girl did say down the phone that outcome with the manager would probably be much the same, but hopefully it won't.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP ordered a BAG for €140

Arnotts don't sell a bag at that price and because it was an error on the website they delivered the correct item a PURSE costing €140.

OP now wants to return the purse and get the bag at the same price which obviously Arnotts will not do.

The best they COULD do is to cancel the order and allow the op reorder the bag at the correct price and throw in some goodwill vouchers.

What they might do if pushed is as little as possible.

They made a mistake on the website and at the moment OP you have what you paid for, if you don't want it then return it for a refund and move on!

How does the OP have what they paid for....they paid for a bag....and Arnott's decided not to honour their part of a legal contract by sending out a purse.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

EaSwe wrote: »

Maybe I'm being a bit hasty.

The girl did say down the phone that outcome with the manager would probably be much the same, but hopefully it won't.

I'd still write in to Arnott's. Not exactly the same, but last year I bought a pair of boots online from a store in the UK and when the boots arrived I noticed that there was a slight flaw in the sole. I spent a couple of hundred on the boots so I immediately phoned up the store in Covent Garden and without even thinking twice about it they arranged for a second pair of boots to be couriered over to me with no questions asked. For a couple of weeks (until the new year) I had two pairs of boots sitting in my home before this store arranged for the first pair to be couriered back to the UK. There are some stores who've just got good customer service -

slimjimmc

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

How does the OP have what they paid for....they paid for a bag....and Arnott's decided not to honour their part of a legal contract by sending out a purse.

You make it sound like Arnotts knew the OP wanted a bag but made a premeditated decision to send a purse instead. It was a mistake, as simple as that.

foggy_lad

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

How does the OP have what they paid for....they paid for a bag....and Arnott's decided not to honour their part of a legal contract by sending out a purse.

OP paid €140 which is trhe price of a purse, due to a mistake the image and description on the website was for a bag.

PRICE OF GOODS
The price listed on the Website (the 'price') for Arnotts products (the "products") will be as stipulated at the time when you place your order on the website. We are entitled to make adjustments to the price to take account of any increase in our supplier's prices, or the imposition of any new taxes or duties, or if due to an error or omission the price for the products on the Website is wrong. - See more at: http://www.arnotts.ie/content/Terms-and-Conditions/408#sthash.EDrkeqkW.dpuf

d9oiu2wk07blr5

foggy_lad wrote: »

OP paid €140 which is trhe price of a purse, due to a mistake the image and description on the website was for a bag.

The person paid €140 and the image on the site and detailed on the receipt is the bag.....that's the legal contract that was entered in to and accepted by virtue of payment.....and it's all that matters. Their T&C's mean zippo - read what actually constitutes an unfair term under EU law.

TheDriver

i would have no problem if it was cancelled or informed prior to delivery. However the item was processed and delivered and that's where arnotts need to realise their errors prior to accepting and processing the order.

P.S. 140 quid for a purse?? Hope you can melt it down into coins and gold bars......

d9oiu2wk07blr5

slimjimmc wrote: »

You make it sound like Arnotts knew the OP wanted a bag but made a premeditated decision to send a purse instead. It was a mistake, as simple as that.

Who said that....all that I am saying is that the OP purchased a bag advertised at a given price and is well within their rights to receive a bag not a purse. It's as simple as....

slimjimmc

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

Who said that....all that I am saying is that the OP purchased a bag advertised at a given price and is well within their rights to receive a bag not a purse. It's as simple as....

Er, You did, in post #23 when you said Arnotts decided not to honour the contract by supplying something else.

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

How does the OP have what they paid for....they paid for a bag....and Arnott's decided not to honour their part of a legal contract by sending out a purse.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

slimjimmc wrote: »

Er, You did, in post #23 when you said Arnotts decided not to honour the contract by supplying something else.

You used the word deliberately....I never made any such assertion. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the OP in fact receive a purse...so Arnott's thus far hasn't fulfilled their side of the contract. If you buy something online, surely there's a record created of what you in fact purchased and the sum that you paid for the product for processing, receipt and dispatching purposes. The OP has a confirmation receipt clearly stating that they purchased a bag and the offer was accepted as far as the payment transaction went through....so it really makes you wonder how the purse end up being dispatched from the warehouse or store.

slimjimmc

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

You used the word deliberately....I never made any such assertion.

Lol, well it's not like you can accidentally decide something.

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the OP in fact receive a purse...so Arnott's thus far hasn't fulfilled their side of the contract. If you buy something online, surely there's a record created of what you in fact purchased and the sum that you paid for the product for processing, receipt and dispatching purposes. The OP has a confirmation receipt clearly stating that they purchased a bag and the offer was accepted as far as the payment transaction went through....so it really makes you wonder how the purse end up being dispatched from the warehouse or store.

No one is denying the OP received the wrong article, but nothing suggests it was a decision to not honour the contract.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

slimjimmc wrote: »

Lol, well it's not like you can accidentally decide something.


No one is denying the OP received the wrong article, but nothing suggests it was a decision to not honour the contract.

But when they're processing an online order do these stores/warehouses not have a duplicate record of the item that the purchaser ordered and paid for? How else can they tell what needs to be dispatched.

Thoie

Gunnar Plain Toolbox wrote: »

But when they're processing an online order do these stores/warehouses not have a duplicate record of the item that the purchaser ordered and paid for? How else can they tell what needs to be dispatched.

They most likely have something saying "item 12345 is to go to Fred Bloggs at this address". The fact that item 12345 in the warehouse is a purse, but is described mistakenly online as a bag probably isn't obvious to the people packing the envelope - they'll just cross reference the item number with the order.

sandin

They and every other online store are covered by the terms and conditions which form part of your contract.

Errors happen - that's life.

Error has been noticed. The MAXIMUM they must do is give you a refund. Nothing more.

Move on and stop trying to convince yourself you have any other entitlement.

dudara

This is pretty much a clear example of an advertising error and Arnotts have offered to refund. Give the service agent sometime to respond with her manager's decision, but I wouldn't push it with them. Sometimes mistakes happen. Would you want to be pushed like this if you made a similar mistake?

Bepolite

Sorry guys but most of you are missing the fact that the contract has been concluded and the good delivered. I'm having some difficulty wrapping my head around whether this is unilateral or mutual mistake (sometimes I wish I paid more attention at school :P). If it is unilateral mistake then there is a possibility that the contract can be upheld.

The likelihood is the OP won't be able to force Arnott's hand legally, but really this is not what this is about, it's a consumer issue and if a mistake of this sort is made the retailer should stand over it as a matter of service. They may not be able to offer the full amount but certainly so sort of offer should be forthcoming.

That said OP you do need to give them time to respond. I'd be disinclined to kick off to any great degree until close of business on Monday.

Sulla Felix

Bepolite wrote: »

Sorry guys but most of you are missing the fact that the contract has been concluded and the good delivered.

A good has been delivered, not the good contracted for, which is why we're having this discussion. Afaic the contract is still open and thus, subject to change as per Arnotts reserved rights.
Legal nitpicking aside, practically speaking OP, I'd take the refund and buy something else, somewhere else, with the money. If this is an xmas present I don't see any other course resolved before the new year.

Bepolite

Sulla Felix wrote: »

A good has been delivered, not the good contracted for, which is why we're having this discussion. Afaic the contract is still open and thus, subject to change as per Arnotts reserved rights.
Legal nitpicking aside, practically speaking OP, I'd take the refund and buy something else, somewhere else, with the money. If this is an xmas present I don't see any other course resolved before the new year.

Sorry but it's not legal nitpicking it's fundamental fairness to the OP. The OP hasn't acted dishonestly, it wasn't something 'snapped up' with a decimal point in the wrong place, it was an error on the part of the retailer. The retailer should stand over their error.

If the error had been spotted and reported to the OP prior to delivery, thats on thing. Once the goods arrive, the contract is concluded and the OP is left without what they bargained for. The retailer is offering a refund, this isn't acceptable purely on the grounds of good service let alone anything else.

EaSwe

Good News!

Arnotts are going to complete the original order!

dudara

That's very good of them. IMO, they don't have to (I feel a genuine error was made) but it's very good customer service on their part.