Forbes names Ireland as ‘best country for business’

Dave!

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/forbes-names-ireland-as-best-country-for-business-1.1617277

Ireland has for the first time been named as the “best country for business” in rankings carried out by renowned US financial magazine Forbes.

Ireland has moved up from sixth position in the influential rankings last year. The rankings are determined by grading 145 nations on 11 different factors: property rights, innovation, taxes, technology, corruption, freedom (personal, trade and monetary), red tape, investor protection and stock market performance.

Any thoughts on this? I'm assuming anyone with a slightly left inclination will be responding along the lines of: "Of course it's a good place to do business, because the government allows businesses to pay very little tax, and taxes the hell out of the working poor and cuts social welfare payments instead".

There's actually a letter today saying similar:

Sir, – Your lead article states Ireland is the number one country in the world for investment, according to Forbes magazine, giving a long list of reasons for this statement (Breaking News, December 5th).
Immediately below this article is “Facebook paid €1.9m in Irish tax on €1.7bn turnover”. I can’t help wondering are these articles in some way connected? – Yours, etc,

There's certainly more than an element of truth in that, to be fair.

Isn't our own domestic SME sector struggling a bit though? How does that jive with this headline? Is it that Ireland is only a good place to set up shop if you're a huge multinational? Or is it just the banks not lending which is screwing over the SMEs?

pwurple

I'm delighted with this kind of press anyway.

We certainly have our internal problems, banks are a joke at the moment, they don't want to know about business. But happy to hear international investors being encouraged to bring business this way.

Sleepy

Yep, I'd agree with pwurple. This is fantastic press for Ireland and should help the IDA enormously.

With our current unemployment situation, I be quite prepared to grant someone who was providing large enough levels of the right kind of employment a 0% Corporation Tax rate were such a thing legal.

gallag

Sleepy wrote: »

Yep, I'd agree with pwurple. This is fantastic press for Ireland and should help the IDA enormously.

With our current unemployment situation, I be quite prepared to grant someone who was providing large enough levels of the right kind of employment a 0% Corporation Tax rate were such a thing legal.

That's a race to the bottom though, do you really want multinational company's diverting profits from other countries through Ireland just for the reward of a small skeleton staff? The money that takes out of your neighbours economy's is money that can't be spent on Irish exports etc making everyone a looser except for the billionaires of the board of said multinational companies.

Scortho

gallag wrote: »

That's a race to the bottom though, do you really want multinational company's diverting profits from other countries through Ireland just for the reward of a small skeleton staff? The money that takes out of your neighbours economy's is money that can't be spent on Irish exports etc making everyone a looser except for the billionaires of the board of said multinational companies.

Large enough employment was his point.
So the companies with the phantom offices wouldn't be able to use it.

creedp

Scortho wrote: »

Large enough employment was his point.
So the companies with the phantom offices wouldn't be able to use it.

Is Ireland's reputation on corporation tax not already sufficienly under scrutiny without officially publicising a 0% tax rate? At some point dropping the CT rate must result in a diminishing return when all relevant factors are taken into account. I think, in the short term, we'd be better off publicising the fact that the threatened electricity outtages will not materialise and measures are being implemented to minimise any such disruption happenning in the future.

gallag

Another thing to consider is that a 0% or ridiculously low Corp tax for Ireland would not happen in a vacuum, it would force it's neighbours to compete by also lowering taxes and the only winners would be mega corps board of directors.

noodler

Sleepy wrote: »

Yep, I'd agree with pwurple. This is fantastic press for Ireland and should help the IDA enormously.

With our current unemployment situation, I be quite prepared to grant someone who was providing large enough levels of the right kind of employment a 0% Corporation Tax rate were such a thing legal.

Corp tax take is worth more than 4bn a year in direct exchequer revenues - it would take fairly substantial employment increases by foreign MNCs to make it worthwhile.

We seem to be running out of appropriate large scale office sites in Dublin for incoming multinationals as it is according to the IDA so I am not sure where all these new companies could be put in the short term if we made the announcement tomorrow.

Then there is the issue that there is usually a significant lead-in time for when a new company announces investment to when it actually happens (which slightly contradicts my previosu point...it depends I suppose on how quickly we can churn out new and appropriate office spaces in the city centre for larger MNC operations).

If you made it just for new international entrants (and not ones already based here) I would think, although cannot be sure, that a number of companies may find it appropriate to have subsiduary leave and another enter to take advantage.


Finally, and most importantly along with the 'race to the bottom' point imo, is that I would have serious reservations about the stability or tangiblity of companies who would only choose to base themsleves here as a result of such a rate.

Just some personal musings.

hmmm

pwurple wrote: »

We certainly have our internal problems, banks are a joke at the moment, they don't want to know about business. But happy to hear international investors being encouraged to bring business this way.

I was talking to some international execs for a major US computing firm last week and the conversation turned to the potential ESB strike and the impact on their data centres in Ireland - they are having European customers contact them to find out what their contingency is. Don't underestimate the impact this is having on perceptions from abroad, it was a mortifying conversation. Economic treason is not a million miles away from my feelings.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

Yep, I'd agree with pwurple. This is fantastic press for Ireland and should help the IDA enormously.

With our current unemployment situation, I be quite prepared to grant someone who was providing large enough levels of the right kind of employment a 0% Corporation Tax rate were such a thing legal.

I can't believe I actually have to quote myself...

If anyone was prepared to come in tomorrow to hire a large number of the low skilled / former construction industry workers who'll be on the live register for a very long time otherwise would you honestly say no to the jobs over a corporation tax rate?

I am pie

hmmm wrote: »

I was talking to some international execs for a major US computing firm last week and the conversation turned to the potential ESB strike and the impact on their data centres in Ireland - they are having European customers contact them to find out what their contingency is. Don't underestimate the impact this is having on perceptions from abroad, it was a mortifying conversation. Economic treason is not a million miles away from my feelings.

Surely these dc's have back up generators or power supply? If not, sack the designers.

hmmm

I am pie wrote: »

Surely these dc's have back up generators or power supply? If not, sack the designers.

They do so they should be unaffected. But that's not the point.

Phoebas

I am pie wrote: »

Surely these dc's have back up generators or power supply? If not, sack the designers.

Even if they do (I presume that they do), their customers wouldn't necessarily know that - that's presumably why they were contacting them to find out what their contingency is.
But even with the data centres up and running, the connectivity to the data centres may be effected by a power strike (or not, but that's not important - the concern still exists).

K-9

Sleepy wrote: »

I can't believe I actually have to quote myself...

If anyone was prepared to come in tomorrow to hire a large number of the low skilled / former construction industry workers who'll be on the live register for a very long time otherwise would you honestly say no to the jobs over a corporation tax rate?

The problem as previously mentioned is it becomes a race to the bottom. We had the lowest CT rate in the EU/EC when the 12.5% was introduced IIRC, now we don't with a good few countries lower than us. If we introduce a zero rate others will follow.

As people always miss when it comes to CT, it isn't our rate that is that important, it's the rules and legislation, Apple the most high profile example. The laws were changed in the budget to address some of this stuff.

The other thing is the moral side of it, I far do we go to attract multi-nationals? The US has a significant chunk of McDonalds workers receiving state had outs because they are on low wages, if that type of race to the bottom keeps going taxpayers will be paying the wages next!

Scortho

K-9 wrote: »

The problem as previously mentioned is it becomes a race to the bottom. We had the lowest CT rate in the EU/EC when the 12.5% was introduced IIRC, now we don't with a good few countries lower than us. If we introduce a zero rate others will follow.

As people always miss when it comes to CT, it isn't our rate that is that important, it's the rules and legislation, Apple the most high profile example. The laws were changed in the budget to address some of this stuff.

The other thing is the moral side of it, I far do we go to attract multi-nationals? The US has a significant chunk of McDonalds workers receiving state had outs because they are on low wages, if that type of race to the bottom keeps going taxpayers will be paying the wages next!

I'd say that a company that creates a significant amount of jobs in Ireland, let's say 100 a year, should get their corporation tax waived for the next three years.

If they don't create the jobs, then they continue to pay corporation tax at the current rate.

I'd also introduce a rate of 25% for phantom companies who employ nobody but just use ireland to take advantage of the sandwich.

clairefontaine

The article is misleading.

Ireland is a good place for multi national corporatism. It's a terrible place for small to medium businesses.

I'd like to see Ireland do something for its individual entrepreneurs and wean itself off foreign dependencies.

murphaph

clairefontaine wrote: »

The article is misleading.

Ireland is a good place for multi national corporatism. It's a terrible place for small to medium businesses.

I'd like to see Ireland do something for its individual entrepreneurs and wean itself off foreign dependencies.

Yup. Small and medium enterprises are the backbone of the German economy. People know the big names like VW, Daimler, Siemens etc. but Germany's economy is really based on small niche firms making specialised things that the world wants.

In Ireland we don't do nearly enough to promote small and medium enterprise. We should not be falling over ourselves to make it easier to open another Spar shop but we should make strides to help start exporting companies, be that agri-food, tech, software, pharma, machinery or whatever. There should be special deals on rates for such companies for a start. Rates are crippling many companies.

Villa05

Heard this story on the radio during the week. apparently one of the criteria was protection of investors, now considering we have reimbursed most of the loosing bets on our banks, no wonder we are number 1.

neilaccountant

Villa05 wrote: »

Heard this story on the radio during the week. apparently one of the criteria was protection of investors, now considering we have reimbursed most of the loosing bets on our banks, no wonder we are number 1.

No surprise there then really

AlmightyCushion

Villa05 wrote: »

Heard this story on the radio during the week. apparently one of the criteria was protection of investors, now considering we have reimbursed most of the loosing bets on our banks, no wonder we are number 1.

The shareholders in the banks had their shares wiped out by the government.

experiMental

clairefontaine wrote: »

The article is misleading.

Ireland is a good place for multi national corporatism. It's a terrible place for small to medium businesses.

I'd like to see Ireland do something for its individual entrepreneurs and wean itself off foreign dependencies.

It's not such a terrible place for small and medium businesses as some other countries. When I was setting up a small business, I didn't get any negative remarks about it. I'm quite happy with the general attitude towards starting on your own.

Believe me, if I was to set up *any* small business in Romania and Ukraine, I would get a hell of a lot of pressure from both the society and the government.

However, as far as the benefits for sole traders or small businesses go, it seems to be a bit harsh and difficult. Clearly not enough welfare support and a lot of emphasis on accurate record keeping and management, which gets in the way of business itself and it can be very costly in some cases.

If the article said that Ireland had the best attitude towards starting a business, then I would totally agree.

Villa05

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The shareholders in the banks had their shares wiped out by the government.

Nothing to do with the way the bank was managed.
Abramovich done alright bought bonds for.cents on the euro and was fully reimbirsed full value by the state. You need that kind of luck when your paying 50 mill plus for average football players

Amirani

clairefontaine wrote: »

The article is misleading.

Ireland is a good place for multi national corporatism. It's a terrible place for small to medium businesses.

I'd like to see Ireland do something for its individual entrepreneurs and wean itself off foreign dependencies.

Are you talking about the IT article or the Forbes ranking?

Ireland is by no means a terrible place for small to medium businesses, I haven't a notion where you got that idea. The Forbes ranking is based on property rights, innovation, taxes, technology, corruption, freedom (personal, trade and monetary), red tape, investor protection and stock market performance. Good performance in these areas is absolutely a big positive to SMEs. We're talking not talking about attitudes here.

micosoft

clairefontaine wrote: »

The article is misleading.

Ireland is a good place for multi national corporatism. It's a terrible place for small to medium businesses.

I'd like to see Ireland do something for its individual entrepreneurs and wean itself off foreign dependencies.

Complete nonsense and you are the one being misleading - the survey was not just about MNC's. Ireland is one of the easiest places to setup a new business and the support is unbelievable.

Would you care to describe one other country where it is easier to setup a business (setup, register) and benefits (supports, tax breaks, market access). Any country will do. It's not the US or UK (though they are closest). Its unbelievable the amount of crap that you need to go through in continental Europe.

Unless you are whinging that the Government does not magic away the recession?

I've setup two companies with partners in the last two years. One is doing poorly (market not there) and the other very well. I'm tired of bull**** barstool commentators who love to talk down this country and the agencies who blame the state for their inability to setup a company or get it funded or find a market. You are the problem mate.

Finally, what is it about the number of North Koreans in this country. We are a small, open economy on the periphery of Europe. Trading is THE ONLY way we can develop our economy which is why we have MNC's. You don't replace multinationals with SME's. You just get rid of a massive part of the economy that SME's depend on. It's not some bizarre OR type solution. Oh yes - last time I checked Irish MNC's employed 80,000 US works in the States. Almost as many as US employ in Ireland. Juche FFS.

micosoft

murphaph wrote: »

Yup. Small and medium enterprises are the backbone of the German economy. People know the big names like VW, Daimler, Siemens etc. but Germany's economy is really based on small niche firms making specialised things that the world wants.

In Ireland we don't do nearly enough to promote small and medium enterprise. We should not be falling over ourselves to make it easier to open another Spar shop but we should make strides to help start exporting companies, be that agri-food, tech, software, pharma, machinery or whatever. There should be special deals on rates for such companies for a start. Rates are crippling many companies.

Germany =/ Ireland.

Different economy, location, market size, language. Different everything. Different mix. Because we are a small open trading economy we will proportionately have a larger MNC sector. That said we have plenty of specialised small medium companies and the supports are just fine.

If you have an issue with Rates support the Residential Property Tax. The council has to get money from somewhere and since Jack Lynch bought the electorate in the 70's by eliminating household rates Business's have expected to pay everything. In any case unless you are retail (and hence not exporting) there are plenty of ways of reducing your rates in the first coupe of years.

murphaph

I never said Germany was Ireland-just pointing out that in a land which is known for its huge conglomerates that the economy is still capable of being driven by the Mittelstand. I wouldn't agree that we have "plenty of specialised small medium companies" at all. Plenty means more than enough. Do you really believe Ireland has more than enough small/medium companies producing high value niche products? I don't. I think we have some, but could do with far more, ie anything but plenty,

Agree wholeheartedly re rates abolition for residential properties under Lynch. You'll find such comments from me elsewhere on boards I'm sure however the real problem is the sheer number of councils and the fact nothing has been done by government to amalgamate council departments that could easily be amalgamated across councils (think all backoffice, HR, many IT roles, accounting roles etc. Does the likes of Carlow, Kildare and Kilkenny really need three HR departments for example? Of course not, all this stuff should be at regional level, not county level. Think bigger picture.

clairefontaine

NiallSparky wrote: »

Are you talking about the IT article or the Forbes ranking?

Ireland is by no means a terrible place for small to medium businesses, I haven't a notion where you got that idea. The Forbes ranking is based on property rights, innovation, taxes, technology, corruption, freedom (personal, trade and monetary), red tape, investor protection and stock market performance. Good performance in these areas is absolutely a big positive to SMEs. We're talking not talking about attitudes here.

I got that from the local cafe opener who had to pay several thousand to the council just to open, and by several I mean about 7. I'm talking about the 21% tax on the phone. The cost of business cards even, the slowness too at being able to get anything done in Ireland.

And how about all these meter rates? And insidious taxes?

If it were that great, don't ou think all these unemployed people would just start their own business?

hfallada

clairefontaine wrote: »

I got that from the local cafe opener who had to pay several thousand to the council just to open, and by several I mean about 7. I'm talking about the 21% tax on the phone. The cost of business cards even, the slowness too at being able to get anything done in Ireland.

And how about all these meter rates? And insidious taxes?

If it were that great, don't ou think all these unemployed people would just start their own business?

You have to pay taxes on your business location in pretty much every country in the western world. Otherwise how is a council going to provide roads and footpaths to your business? Vat is a European tax. The eu generally deceides the rate of tax on items.

Ireland is one of the quickest and cheapest countries to register a company in the world. If I phoned a company formation agent tomorrow. I would have a limited company by Thursday. That would take 2 solicitors and an accountant in Spain.

Unemployed people often they have the knowledge to run a company. A lot of them are better off on welfare. Why work in Ireland when you have some of the highest tax rates in Europe?

maninasia

hfallada wrote: »

You have to pay taxes on your business location in pretty much every country in the western world. Otherwise how is a council going to provide roads and footpaths to your business? Vat is a European tax. The eu generally deceides the rate of tax on items.

Ireland is one of the quickest and cheapest countries to register a company in the world. If I phoned a company formation agent tomorrow. I would have a limited company by Thursday. That would take 2 solicitors and an accountant in Spain.

Unemployed people often they have the knowledge to run a company. A lot of them are better off on welfare. Why work in Ireland when you have some of the highest tax rates in Europe?

Paying 7,000 euro just to open a cafe sounds like a nightmare. Then throw in insurance costs, labour and PRSI, high skill trades costs, legal costs etc..sounds tough.

VAT levels are set by the Irish government.

micosoft

murphaph wrote: »

I never said Germany was Ireland-just pointing out that in a land which is known for its huge conglomerates that the economy is still capable of being driven by the Mittelstand. I wouldn't agree that we have "plenty of specialised small medium companies" at all. Plenty means more than enough. Do you really believe Ireland has more than enough small/medium companies producing high value niche products? I don't. I think we have some, but could do with far more, ie anything but plenty,

I mean plenty in the context of a small open economy on the western seaboard of Europe with limited natural resources outside of Agriculture. To be fair I think you set up the comparison with Germany which I am challengeing.

The Mittelstand have a symbiotic relationship with the Global German Corporations. Guys that specialise making seat belt harnesses for VW and BMW group for example. Germany has a population of over 70 million, in the centre of Europe, with two centuries of industrial history and knowledge, resources (Coal, Iron) and a whole raft of other complex reasons why it is where it is and why every other country does not just replicate it - and countries with a better ability to replicate like like England and France.

You can always argue that there is never too much of a good thing and you can always do more but it's a question on return on investment for the state and I really don't think it's feasible to get close to the German Model and I don't think we should try.

The thing is (and I was involved in a startup business that got to 230 staff before being bought out) due to a variety of reasons, successful Irish Companies that reach a certain size end up being bought by companies that could grow in a larger home market. This is why there are no major indigenous Irish Software companies. I'm simply using this as an illustration of one of the many reasons Ireland does not have a significant Mittelstand. There are examples but don't expect them to dominate our economy.

On the other hand I don't get the dislike of MNC's. They do incredibly well for Ireland, suit our open trading economy and are sustainable. Whats wrong with the Government focusing on sectors and industries that work in our context?

murphaph wrote: »

Agree wholeheartedly re rates abolition for residential properties under Lynch. You'll find such comments from me elsewhere on boards I'm sure however the real problem is the sheer number of councils and the fact nothing has been done by government to amalgamate council departments that could easily be amalgamated across councils (think all backoffice, HR, many IT roles, accounting roles etc. Does the likes of Carlow, Kildare and Kilkenny really need three HR departments for example? Of course not, all this stuff should be at regional level, not county level. Think bigger picture.

Sure and sure. Don't think anyone would disagree. I am very sympathetic to SME businesses but the blame entirely lies with a spoilt electorate that think local services are free and have loaded business with all these costs. It's almost political suicide for a politician to champion the introduction of water charges and RPT. This is more a reflection on the electorate and it's misaligned priorities then the politicans who after all, follow the votes. The fact we've had to blame the IMF for this shows what a difficult position the state is in. Both the IDA and Enterprise Ireland have lobbied to this effect.

murphaph

I agree largely with that especially with the notion that a stupid electorate is to blame for many of the problems we face. I think the MNCs have done wonders for Ireland and I hate when people moan about them and expect that we can tax them at 90% and that they won't up sticks and leave. Ireland would still be the absolute pits if MNCs hadn't set up shop in numbers as they did.

I would however think we can still develop our own Mittelstand that doesn't have to rely on feeding into large corporations "at the top of the tree" so to speak. You're correct that many German Mittelstand companies do this...but many do not. Many make niche products that are sold internationally, not just sub assemblies for car factories etc. Some even make non-niche products: Faber-Castell is probably the best known Mittelstand company to many people around the world and what they make hasn't changed much in a hundred years perhaps. They just make these things well.

I understand that Germany has an engineering heritage that Ireland doesn't, but other smaller (in population) European countries also have no real engineering heritage yet still managed to forge ahead with their own Mittelstand which didn't rely on traditional industries (Finland essentially went from being a fairly poor low tech paper pulp making country to one that specialises in telecoms and such like).

The clear advantage Mittelstand companies offer to a society is that they are generally owned and run by local people who want to keep the jobs locally. MNCs clearly don't have any such loyalty, nor would I expect them to, but that doesn't mean we should do anything to hinder MNCs setting up in Ireland, quite the opposite should be in fact.

clairefontaine

It's insane that Apple has barely any corporate tax but the small local cafe owner has a huge tax burden.

Do they not see how backwards that is? How dependant they remain? How anti local entrepreneur that is?

This may well all end for Ireland as US senate keeps investigating these companies.

This was from early this year but over the summer Apple had to deal with the senate again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/business/an-inquiry-into-tech-giants-tax-strategies-nears-an-end.html?_r=0

Also the US has now pressured off shore places like Lichenatein and Switzerland into handing over info on citizens hiding thei taxes. When Uncle Sam wants his taxes he will get them.

I think ireland really needs to move to get off the foreign dependencies.

maninasia

The thing is (and I was involved in a startup business that got to 230 staff before being bought out) due to a variety of reasons, successful Irish Companies that reach a certain size end up being bought by companies that could grow in a larger home market. This is why there are no major indigenous Irish Software companies. I'm simply using this as an illustration of one of the many reasons Ireland does not have a significant Mittelstand. There are examples but don't expect them to dominate our economy.

I don't think you can say that if you look to companies that have come out of Sweden (skype-although ultimately bought out) or Finland (Nokia) or the Netherlands (Philips). I often see that line trotted out and I think that it's more of a cultural thing in Ireland, build it to a certain size, then go for the exit , it's about taking the risk to a certain level, but then getting out instead of going for the 'all or nothing' compete with the big boys approach. They'll take the 10 million and run. Many academics involved in business start-ups/spin-offs like to sell out because they just want the pay-off after a couple of years of work.
A lot of the real ambitious folks with the far out ideas end up decamping overseas. In the end I put this phenomenon down firmly to a lack of over arching ambition. You've got to want to be the biggest and the best like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg or even like Michael O'Leary and Tony O'Reilly. Read more about Tony O'Reilly, everything he did he wanted to be no.1, a global player and leader and he was willing to take big risks. There was no reason that GPA should have been founded in Shannon and grown to be the biggest leasing airline company. There was no reason that Ryanair should have been founded in Ireland and go on to be the biggest low fares airline in Europe. It was sheer bloody mindedness and risk-taking and hard hard work and belief in a dream.

Also running a business in Ireland is still not really a respected thing, it's all about being a doctor or a lawyer to get the 'respect'.

Sure and sure. Don't think anyone would disagree. I am very sympathetic to SME businesses but the blame entirely lies with a spoilt electorate that think local services are free and have loaded business with all these costs. It's almost political suicide for a politician to champion the introduction of water charges and RPT. This is more a reflection on the electorate and it's misaligned priorities then the politicans who after all, follow the votes. The fact we've had to blame the IMF for this shows what a difficult position the state is in. Both the IDA and Enterprise Ireland have lobbied to this effect.

Totally agree. Businesses are loaded with too much costs including rates, insurance, myriad taxes, employment costs, legal costs etc.
SMEs should get major allowances for the first few years to encourage start-ups and reaching a certain scale.

maninasia

clairefontaine wrote: »

It's insane that Apple has barely any corporate tax but the small local cafe owner has a huge tax burden.

Do they not see how backwards that is? How dependant they remain? How anti local entrepreneur that is?

This may well all end for Ireland as US senate keeps investigating these companies.

This was from early this year but over the summer Apple had to deal with the senate again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/business/an-inquiry-into-tech-giants-tax-strategies-nears-an-end.html?_r=0

Also the US has now pressured off shore places like Lichenatein and Switzerland into handing over info on citizens hiding thei taxes. When Uncle Sam wants his taxes he will get them.

I think ireland really needs to move to get off the foreign dependencies.

It's unfair alright. The thing that bogs down local small businesses is not the corporate tax but the other stuff, the rates in particular along with the costs of employing people.
But many of the electorate have absolutely no clue about how the country's finances operate (nor did the politicians mind you), we don't even learn this basic stuff in school!

Celly Smunt

Every punter loves a casino that offers free drinks and gives refunds.

micosoft

clairefontaine wrote: »

It's insane that Apple has barely any corporate tax but the small local cafe owner has a huge tax burden.

It's quite simple really. The Café must be located on x highstreet. Apple can locate annywhere.

clairefontaine wrote: »

I think ireland really needs to move to get off the foreign dependencies.

And replace it with what exactly?

murphaph

We also need to differentiate between a cafe and an exporting business. The latter should be prioritised for any government supports.

micosoft

murphaph wrote: »

We also need to differentiate between a cafe and an exporting business. The latter should be prioritised for any government supports.

Given a person can only buy their coffee from that café or similarly burdened cafés in the area (you can't order a coffee online) it's probably fair to say that the charges the corporation make are passed straight through to the consumer who has no choice on the matter. In effect an indirect tax to make up for the shortfall of direct taxation (RPT). So yes, export companies should be treated differently and to be fair they receive significantly more supports then a café.

Cork boy 55

micosoft wrote: »

Complete nonsense and you are the one being misleading - the survey was not just about MNC's. Ireland is one of the easiest places to setup a new business and the support is unbelievable.

Would you care to describe one other country where it is easier to setup a business (setup, register) and benefits (supports, tax breaks, market access). Any country will do. It's not the US or UK (though they are closest). Its unbelievable the amount of crap that you need to go through in continental Europe.

Unless you are whinging that the Government does not magic away the recession?

I've setup two companies with partners in the last two years. One is doing poorly (market not there) and the other very well. I'm tired of bull**** barstool commentators who love to talk down this country and the agencies who blame the state for their inability to setup a company or get it funded or find a market. You are the problem mate.

Finally, what is it about the number of North Koreans in this country. We are a small, open economy on the periphery of Europe. Trading is THE ONLY way we can develop our economy which is why we have MNC's. You don't replace multinationals with SME's. You just get rid of a massive part of the economy that SME's depend on. It's not some bizarre OR type solution. Oh yes - last time I checked Irish MNC's employed 80,000 US works in the States. Almost as many as US employ in Ireland. Juche FFS.

IS there a breakdown or more data on this figure?

maninasia

I've seen that figure quoted as well, it is not very believable and I also have never seen the breakdown.

AlmightyCushion

maninasia wrote: »

I've seen that figure quoted as well, it is not very believable and I also have never seen the breakdown.

It's actually not that big of a stretch. While 100,000 employees or so is a sizeable amount here, it is practically nothing in regards to the US market. It's not even 0.1% of the total amount of people employed there.

CRH are one of the biggest construction materials suppliers in the world and they have a huge presence in the US. They employee about 90,000 worldwide and given their presence in the US, I'd say a decent percentage of their staff would be US based. Kerry, Glanbia, Greencore, Smurfitt, Kingspan and Fyffes are just a small selection of big Irish companies that would have interests in the US. Add in all the other big and small Irish companies and I think the figure sounds believable. I've no hard data or figures to go on however.