Are we being forced to Take a Leap

roboshatner

Are we being forced to use a Leap Card ?

Personally I think so....

I do not agree with them personally I have not used one of those type cards in years and now with the price increase I might just have to prices compared to the leap card below
Adult Cash € 3.05 Adult Leap € 2.50 Child Cash € 1.30 Child Leap € 1.15 Schoolchild Cash € 0.90 Schoolchild Leap € 0.70
I would just like to say do you realize or care that Dublin Bus is Data mining your information ?

Just like many many other companies.

Personally I do not like the fact that some company knows my personal information of my comings and goings ever day or if my information is passed on and given to another company.

I totally disagree with the whole system but I really hate to give in and get one but the increase is insane and no one seems to care or protest which makes it ever more crazy.

syklops

Just started using the leap card a few weeks ago. Im a bit annoyed to be honest. I get on the bus and it says flat fee of 2.50. According to the fare calculator, from where I get the bus to my drop off point, it should be 2.35.

I read today that Im supposed to go to the driver and tell him and he deducts the correct amount. Is this true?

Then I tag on the luas and I have to tag off again. Why can't I tag on, on the bus, and tag off at my final destination and let that be it?

Im not sure the leap card was fully thought out.

ballooba

Get a couple of burn cards. Never register them. Sell them on once your done on the blakc market. Problem solved.:D

Nonoperational

I think your putting far too much importance on who gives a ****e where you get the bus to tbh.

syklops

ballooba wrote: »

Get a couple of burn cards. Never register them. Sell them on once your done on the blakc market. Problem solved.:D

Link please?

davetherave

syklops wrote: »

Just started using the leap card a few weeks ago. Im a bit annoyed to be honest. I get on the bus and it says flat fee of 2.50. According to the fare calculator, from where I get the bus to my drop off point, it should be 2.35.

I read today that Im supposed to go to the driver and tell him and he deducts the correct amount. Is this true?

There is a €2.35 cash fare, the equivalent leap card fare is €1.95. You should present your card to the panel next to the coin slot and tell the driver how much.

Victor

roboshatner wrote: »

Personally I do not like the fact that some company knows my personal information of my comings and goings ever day or if my information is passed on and given to another company.

You can always pay cash.

All the operator will know is that card X was used for journeys Y & Z. They won't know who owns that card.

All Leap Card will know is that card X was used with operator Y and the fare was Z. They won't know what route, stop or direction.

If the card is registered, then Leap Card will know some additional information, but hey, my card is registered in a name that isn't mine, with a date of birth a long, long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away).

On ticket machines, the detail of the last 5 trips card be read from the card. I don't know if that information can be stored.

ballooba

davetherave wrote: »

There is a €2.35 cash fare, the equivalent leap card fare is €1.95. You should present your card to the panel next to the coin slot and tell the driver how much.

Technically I believe you're supposed to say where you're going and the driver deducts the appropriate amount. Often they undercharge/overcharge, usually it's an undercharge or correct for me. Once I've followed the procedure I wash my hands of it.

syklops

davetherave wrote: »

There is a €2.35 cash fare, the equivalent leap card fare is €1.95. You should present your card to the panel next to the coin slot and tell the driver how much.

Thanks. Found the whole leap card very confusing to be honest. I've navigated the ticketing systems in major Czech and Polish cities and can't get my head around the irish system. :rolleyes:

So I present my card next to the coin slot and I say 1.95? Is that it?

TheBandicoot

In theory you say where you are going to and the driver will then choose and deduct the appropriate fare. But in theory you're meant to say that as well when you put cash in the coin slot, and no one ever does, so you can say either.

LXFlyer

roboshatner wrote: »

Are we being forced to use a Leap Card ?

Personally I think so....

I do not agree with them personally I have not used one of those type cards in years and now with the price increase I might just have to prices compared to the leap card below
Adult Cash € 3.05 Adult Leap € 2.50 Child Cash € 1.30 Child Leap € 1.15 Schoolchild Cash € 0.90 Schoolchild Leap € 0.70
I would just like to say do you realize or care that Dublin Bus is Data mining your information ?

Just like many many other companies.

Personally I do not like the fact that some company knows my personal information of my comings and goings ever day or if my information is passed on and given to another company.

I totally disagree with the whole system but I really hate to give in and get one but the increase is insane and no one seems to care or protest which makes it ever more crazy.

Absolutely the drive is on to encourage people to switch to LEAP, this is government policy.

Cash fare increases are being pitched at a higher percentage level than LEAP fare increases, and may continue to do so next year. The intention is that LEAP fares will undercut cash by 15%.

This is exactly the same process as happened in London when Oyster was rolled out. Now virtually no one pays with cash there anymore.

The benefits will ultimately be lower operating costs for the companies, and hopefully lower dwell times at bus stops, multi-mode rebates, along with capping etc.

As for people knowing where you are going - get an unpersonalised card and don't register it to yourself if it bothers you that much. Of course you risk losing the money on it if it gets stolen when it's unregistered. As for big brother, I can't imagine anyone is that interested in your personal travel patterns, except in terms of planning transport services.

TheBandicoot

lxflyer wrote: »

As for big brother, I can't imagine anyone is that interested in your personal travel patterns, except in terms of planning transport services.

Er, and advertisers. This kind of data is worth huge amounts these days, the government even has a commitment to supporting 'big data' technology. Obviously anonymised information about a single person's travel habits is not hugely useful, but you cross reference it with other information from other sources and you can get lots of demographic insights, which is worth large amounts of real money.

OP's concern over data protection is a valid one I think.

coylemj

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Er, and advertisers. This kind of data is worth huge amounts these days, the government even has a commitment to supporting 'big data' technology. Obviously anonymised information about a single person's travel habits is not hugely useful, but you cross reference it with other information from other sources and you can get lots of demographic insights, which is worth large amounts of real money.

OP's concern over data protection is a valid one I think.

OP's paranoia concern is not justified, you are not required to register the Leap Card so nobody is forcing you to reveal your travel patterns. Even if you do register the card, you can always lend it to a flatmate, friend or family member, the log on the card proves nothing about who actually used it.

How can anyone cross-reference anonymized data and with 'other information from other sources'? Like what 'other information'?

If they don't know who owns the card, what 'other information' can they link it to?

Utter paranoid nonsense.

SimonQuinlank

OP totally disagrees with a system that is significantly cheaper than cash,saves the hassle of having to have correct change, and that has no way of identifying him/her unless he/she voluntarily registers it.

Only in Ireland!

carlmango11

We essentially are being forced (or "encouraged"...) except I don't know why they're pushing Leap on buses. It is undeniably slower than the cash system. They've spent years and years and ~€100 million for a system that has slowed payments down.

AlekSmart

SimonQuinlank wrote: »

OP totally disagrees with a system that is significantly cheaper than cash,saves the hassle of having to have correct change, and that has no way of identifying him/her unless he/she voluntarily registers it.

Only in Ireland!

Simon,your "Only in Ireland" comment is also rather incredibly true...

I,on a daily basis,attempt to enlighten customers standing before me,rooting and pawing through pockets and bags whilst muttering darkly about the awfulness of the increases.....

When I point out that by using a FREE Leapcard,it is possible to make the same bus journey today,for less than it cost in 2011,I am usually either ignored OR told to "stop trying to tell me how to run my life".....

My significant numbers of non-Irish regular customers have largely abandoned cash and are now regular Leapcard/Rambler users,with their main grumble being why there is so little information available ON THE BUS itself.

The native rationale,as far as I can make out,is that one MUST always have something to give-out about,and importantly,somebody to blame,even if you voluntarily disadvantage yourself to facilitate all of it.

Similarly,with the issue of Centre Door usage,large numbers of people will stand in the centre doorwell,obstructing those who DO utilize it to exit,then when the bus arrives at their stop,they will march up from the OPEN centre exit,to the CLOSED Front entrance and demand to know why I won't let them out....:o

There simply has to be some genetic issue at the root of this unwillingness to conform,or then again,perhaps it really is the fault of the Beastly Brits and their 800 years of oppression etc etc.....:eek:

As for roboshatner and syklops,I'm far from confident that other than paying through their noses to maintain a cash based invisibility,any modern societal structure can cater for their desires to remain eternally anonymous....:o

Five Lamps

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Er, and advertisers. This kind of data is worth huge amounts these days, the government even has a commitment to supporting 'big data' technology. Obviously anonymised information about a single person's travel habits is not hugely useful, but you cross reference it with other information from other sources and you can get lots of demographic insights, which is worth large amounts of real money.

OP's concern over data protection is a valid one I think.

Data can only be used for the purposes it was collected for. the OP is forgetting that he has a mobile phone in his pocket that is generating more stored data then his LEAP card every will!!

cgcsb

If you register your leapcard, the only info you're giving up is your name and contact. I don't know why you'd have a problem with that. Also I can assure you there is no private enterprise on Earth that's interested in where you got the bus, although the NTA may be interested for transport planning purposes.

Rest assured if a private enterprise with enough money was interested in where you travel to on public transport, there are plenty of more accurate ways they can get such information.

AngryLips

roboshatner wrote: »

Are we being forced to use a Leap Card ?

Yes, stupid

Dravokivich

roboshatner wrote: »

I would just like to say do you realize or care that Dublin Bus is Data mining your information ?

Dublin Bus don't have anything to identify you by, they can't tell who you are by the number on your leapcard. All that information is meant to be held by NTA themselves.

cdebru

AlekSmart wrote: »

Simon,your "Only in Ireland" comment is also rather incredibly true...

I,on a daily basis,attempt to enlighten customers standing before me,rooting and pawing through pockets and bags whilst muttering darkly about the awfulness of the increases.....

When I point out that by using a FREE Leapcard,it is possible to make the same bus journey today,for less than it cost in 2011,I am usually either ignored OR told to "stop trying to tell me how to run my life".....

My significant numbers of non-Irish regular customers have largely abandoned cash and are now regular Leapcard/Rambler users,with their main grumble being why there is so little information available ON THE BUS itself.

The native rationale,as far as I can make out,is that one MUST always have something to give-out about,and importantly,somebody to blame,even if you voluntarily disadvantage yourself to facilitate all of it.

Similarly,with the issue of Centre Door usage,large numbers of people will stand in the centre doorwell,obstructing those who DO utilize it to exit,then when the bus arrives at their stop,they will march up from the OPEN centre exit,to the CLOSED Front entrance and demand to know why I won't let them out....:o

There simply has to be some genetic issue at the root of this unwillingness to conform,or then again,perhaps it really is the fault of the Beastly Brits and their 800 years of oppression etc etc.....:eek:

As for roboshatner and syklops,I'm far from confident that other than paying through their noses to maintain a cash based invisibility,any modern societal structure can cater for their desires to remain eternally anonymous....:o

It amazes me how many people are throwing their money away, 55 cent a journey wasted, presuming a 5 day week 2 journeys a day that is €264 a year allowing for holidays. Nevermind if you use the bus more than that or the fact that there is a weekly cap of €27.50 can't understand it at all.

cdebru

carlmango11 wrote: »

We essentially are being forced (or "encouraged"...) except I don't know why they're pushing Leap on buses. It is undeniably slower than the cash system. They've spent years and years and ~€100 million for a system that has slowed payments down.

What slows down the leap cards is the machine jumping back and forward between cash mode and leap card mode if everyone was on leap cards it would be quicker, and those people travelling the full €2.50 don't need to go near the driver they can validate at the side reader.

syklops

AlekSmart wrote: »

As for roboshatner and syklops,I'm far from confident that other than paying through their noses to maintain a cash based invisibility,any modern societal structure can cater for their desires to remain eternally anonymous....:o

Wait, why was I included in that? All I wanted was help in using the card. I doubt anyone in Dublin Bus is mining my data, and Im not real sure what they are going to do with the knowledge that I get on stop 864 at 8am and get off at stop 1307 around 9am. They could put a tea and bacon sandwich dispenser at either stop if they want suggestions.

cdebru

syklops wrote: »

Wait, why was I included in that? All I wanted was help in using the card. I doubt anyone in Dublin Bus is mining my data, and Im not real sure what they are going to do with the knowledge that I get on stop 864 at 8am and get off at stop 1307 around 9am. They could put a tea and bacon sandwich dispenser at either stop if they want suggestions.

It would be the NTA if anyone is mining data which I doubt but you would hope that they would at least mine the data to establish travel patterns which they could use in developing timetables and routes.

AlekSmart

syklops wrote: »

Wait, why was I included in that? All I wanted was help in using the card. I doubt anyone in Dublin Bus is mining my data, and Im not real sure what they are going to do with the knowledge that I get on stop 864 at 8am and get off at stop 1307 around 9am. They could put a tea and bacon sandwich dispenser at either stop if they want suggestions.

Good suggestion syklops,but I'd suggest that by the time the Miners got around to conducting a cost/benefit analysis,along with a Health n Safety audit and a Risk Assessment the best we could manage would be a small bottle of water and a water-biscuit....I'm afraid Tea would be too Hot and Bacon...well it would'nt really be kosher..would it ??? :eek:

syklops

AlekSmart wrote: »

Good suggestion syklops,but I'd suggest that by the time the Miners got around to conducting a cost/benefit analysis,along with a Health n Safety audit and a Risk Assessment the best we could manage would be a small bottle of water and a water-biscuit....I'm afraid Tea would be too Hot and Bacon...well it would'nt really be kosher..would it ??? :eek: