What does Fianna Fail stand for?

raymon

After hearing about FFs renewal constantly for the past few years , what do they stand for now ? What has been renewed? What are their core values.? How have they changed?

According to the Irish Independent a current sitting TD has told them that
"We have no narrative, we have no identity, we have no idea what sort of party we want to be,"

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ff-leader-facing-party-revolt-after-keaveneys-defection-29811262.html

golfball37

They're certainly not Republican anymore anyway. Probably haven't been for a long time.

jmayo

What does Fianna Fail stand for?
Anything you want would be the must apt answer.

For Reals

Whatever will get them in without alienating the civil war fanbase too much.

Zubeneschamali

I'd say they stand for staying in opposition until their mess is cleaned up and people have forgotten what they are like. Good home for Keaveney for a few years, 'til people forget what he's like, too.

gandalf

Outwardly FF stand for whatever they believe they need to say to get elected.

Inwardly they stand for parish pump politics, feathering their own nests and the nests of their sponsors.

If anyone thinks they have changed they are greatly mistaken.

dublinbhoy88

The banana republican party

Scofflaw

Election. Fundamentally a mix of what gandalf and dublinbhoy88 said.

The only constant active aim in the party is reunification. Everything else is "conservative with a small c" - that is, reactive rather than active. Their social policies are shaped by not rocking the boat, while their economic policies can be summed up as "making Ireland a great little country to do business in" - by regulating only when required, and deferring constantly to the golden goose of multinational business and finance.

They seek to subsume but not annoy local elites and vested interests, so only act when faced with the most egregious problems, and back down if action turns out to be more widely unpopular than popular. They're past masters at killing things by assigning them to committee and commissioning consultants, and their instinct is to talk about doing something rather than doing it. That goes for the occasional "initiative" on something like IT or entrepreneurialism - hold a photo-opportunity and have some glossy brochures handed out tends to be the limit of it, and when money is handed out in tandem, it goes to the usual channels as part of maintaining a political grip.

The "great little country to do business in" translates to the local level of "great little county to do business in" through the same kind of non-regulation - letting those with money do what they want rather than attempting entrepreneurialism or leadership.

Luckily, this accords well with the instincts of a large proportion of the Irish public, who are happy to see lip service paid to important issues without the uncomfortable disruption brought about by actual change.

cordially,
Scofflaw

raymon

Scofflaw wrote: »

The only constant active aim in the party is reunification.

While I agree with everything else in your post ( and everyone else's so far) I don't agree that their aim is re-unification.

They presided over the amendment of articles 2 and 3 after all . Don't get me wrong , the amendment was necessary, but doesn't really feed into the reunification narrative.

They also handed over our sovereignty to foreign agents, again not very republican.

Being republican these days for FF involves commemorating Wolfe Tone every year by wearing silly hats and walking in an odd manner in the rain for half an hour.

TCDStudent1

The same as always. The equivalent to Fine Gael.

grainnewhale

FF left of centre, FG right of centre.
In reality no difference only one party has had a greater share of the power. Based on their alleged republican policies.

View

grainnewhale wrote: »

FF left of centre, FG right of centre.

FF aren't "left of centre". They voluntarily have chosen to be members of the "right of centre" (Free-market) Liberals at EU level - where they are among the more (socially) conservative members of the Liberals.

Why should FF not be "right of centre"? They have been the primary beneficiaries of our political system for decades - hence they have every reason to be conservative in outlook as it is in their interest to defend our current system by minimising or eliminating any political push towards changing that system that has so obviously benefited them enormously at least until the last GE (and will probably do so again in future ones in say 5-10 years time).

raymon

grainnewhale wrote: »

FF left of centre, FG right of centre.
In reality no difference only one party has had a greater share of the power. Based on their alleged republican policies.

"Left of centre " and " republican policies" . I wouldn't associate either with FF . Am I missing something?

grainnewhale

raymon wrote: »

"Left of centre " and " republican policies" . I wouldn't associate either with FF . Am I missing something?

Quite possibly.

mdn

One imagines that it could stand for:
Fetid. Inept. Anachronistic. Nepotistic. Narcissistic. Arrogant. -
Futile. Asinine. Incompetent. Listless

eigrod

They stand for greed and avarice. Absolute greed and avarice to the core. Have done since Haughey first emerged from the shadows of the backbench. The Galway tent was their den of iniquity.

We will never get to know the entire web of deceit that existed during the 80s, 90s and 00s, but at least some if it is starting to emerge. The goings on at the Central Remedial Clinic and how all of Bertie's mates siphoned charitable donations in to their own pockets being the most recently exposed manifestation of that web of deceit and greed.

And the new generation will do exactly the same if they get back in power.

For Reals

eigrod wrote: »

They stand for greed and avarice. Absolute greed and avarice to the core. Have done since Haughey first emerged from the shadows of the backbench. The Galway tent was their den of iniquity.

We will never get to know the entire web of deceit that existed during the 80s, 90s and 00s, but at least some if it is starting to emerge. The goings on at the Central Remedial Clinic and how all of Bertie's mates siphoned charitable donations in to their own pockets being the most recently exposed manifestation of that web of deceit and greed.

And the new generation will do exactly the same if they get back in power.

Since Dev, the first fraudster and abuser of the term 'Patriot'.

SpaceTime

Fianna Fail quite simply stands for whatever will get it elected.
They're pure populists who have been everything from hard-right conservatives when that was in fashion to gung-ho liberals when that was in fashion.

The also have a long history of doing giveaway budgets to buy our vote that are completely unsustainable and we end up paying back many times over.

They should just change their slogan to Fianna Fail - Telling you what you want to hear!

Great economic policies like cut taxes while increasing public expenditure unsustainably...

Sunnyisland

What does FF stand for ?




Lies lies and more dam lies

There great at "working well in secret and in the open". The party hierachy had, and still have, a culture of conceit and arrogance and a belief that nothing moves without the say so of the local ward boss. Problem is, so many people chose to look the other way until the misey came to their own door. They have this self belief that they are the ;party; of the country with a divine right to be in goverment...and will go in with anyone and everyone to get there.

Muahahaha

FF stand for nothing really, bar populism. I wonder now if they will campaign to drop the property tax in the next election, just like they did back in the late 70's to mass gpmbeen approval.

hmmm

I can only go on talking to the FF supporters I know, but they stand for gombeen local politicians who will get the bypass built/roads resurfaced, getting one up on "dem in Dublin" and keeping a main hospital in the county, even if there's a closer one in the county beside them.

raymon

I would have thought that turning up for work would have been the least that they could do.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-reform-absent-tds-unanswered-questions-1209988-Dec2013/

sunshine and showers

"By not standing for anything very much, they manage to stand for everything. That is the abiding strength of the Fianna Fail Party..."

That's how Bruce Arnold put it in 2000, and I think that's still fairly true now...

grainnewhale

hmmm wrote: »

I can only go on talking to the FF supporters I know, but they stand for gombeen local politicians who will get the bypass built/roads resurfaced, getting one up on "dem in Dublin" and keeping a main hospital in the county, even if there's a closer one in the county beside them.

Yes loike wots the problem. loike theres probs a hospital less than a hundred miles from the bog.

The Corinthian

grainnewhale wrote: »

FF left of centre, FG right of centre.

Not really. Typically FF have been left of centre, while FG right of centre on economic policy, while the reverse has been true on social policy.

However, ultimately they're pragmatic and popularist, for lack of a better word; beyond a slight tendency twoards republicanism (which is largely lip-service), they don't really have an ideology, beyond what will cause the least ripples and get them elected. And in this regard they're pretty ruthlessly efficient.

As one former FF minister once told me FF was "neither a party of the left or right, but a party of power". I've heard this expression elsewhere a good few times.

FG is marginally more ideologically grounded, but only marginally. Traditionally, the only difference between them and FF was the Civil War and that FF seemed to represent more the small farmers, while FG represented the big farmers. But for the most part, the aforementioned slight differences in slant twoards economic and social policies are all that really tell them apart nowadays - if you can even spot them.

Labour is the classic smoked salmon socialist party, with left wing policies, but firmly geared towards the middle and not working classes. An excellent example of this was their abolition of third level fees in the nineties; in reality it made little difference to the working classes, as they got their fees paid for by the state already - instead it was the middle classes that ended up benefiting from the policy.

spank_inferno

grainnewhale wrote: »

FF left of centre,

Don't confuse naked populism with a real left of centre party.

raymon

The Corinthian wrote: »

Not really. Typically FF have been left of centre,

I don't agree that FF were ever left of centre. Do you have examples of their left of centre policies.

The Corinthian

raymon wrote: »

I don't agree that FF were ever left of centre. Do you have examples of their left of centre policies.

I didn't say FF was left of centre. If you take the time to read what I wrote, I compared them to FG in that FF has been left of centre economically and right of centre socially and FG the reverse. Even then, I pointed out that one would have difficulty seeing much difference nowadays.

As for FF being left of centre economically; which party historically abandoned free trade, introduced the semi-state (semi-nationalization of private business) and implemented a protectionist policies? Hint: Not FG or Labour.

raymon

The Corinthian wrote: »

I didn't say FF was left of centre. If you take the time to read what I wrote, I compared them to FG in that FF has been left of centre economically and right of centre socially and FG the reverse. Even then, I pointed out that one would have difficulty seeing much difference nowadays.

As for FF being left of centre economically; which party historically abandoned free trade, introduced the semi-state (semi-nationalization of private business) and implemented a protectionist policies? Hint: Not FG or Labour.

I read your post , it was the economic angle I was disagreeing with.

Free trade was abandoned and protectionism was introduced because of DeValera's Anglo Irish spat in the thirties, not because he was left leaning.

Semi states were created to ensure that there were enough boards to stuff with Fianna Failers and friends of Fianna Fail , not because of some left political leaning.

The Corinthian

You're entitled to your opinion.