Gas leak repair in driveway

pippip

Hi all,

Looking for some advice. Just got home to discover Bord Gais were called when a neighbour reported a gas leak in our driveway. We had a concrete ramp installed the other day and when one of the wooden supports was removed today it caused the leak. The nail appears to have burst the pipe even though it seems to be only about 25mm penetration into the ground into an area I cannot work out for the life of me how there is a pipe there.

Anyway, do I need to go through Bord Gais for the repair? obviously I need to go through someone officially certified.

Just wondering are they way more expensive or is an independent repair man better?

many thanks


PS ramp installed by family who already have done us a million and one favours so cannot go after them to sort it.

shane0007

If the leak is on your side of the meter, then it is your responsibility & you would require a RGI to do the works. If the installation does not meet the regulations & was installed incorrectly, then you will require a whole new gas line from the meter to the premises.
Depth should be 375mm.

If the leak is on BGN side of the meter, then they will repair but could bill you for the remedial works, but it sounds like the leak is on your side, otherwise you would be currently bringing mugs of tea to a man down a hole!

pippip

Cheers, had Bord Gais out again this evening. They seem to want to confirm it was the leak as they couldn't access the house earlier. He's locked it off so all safe.

Seems they don't do repairs so will have to call around tomorrow.

We only bought the house three months ago. The meter is at the wall to the very front by the footpath. The supply then seems to reappear at the nearest corner of the house. It then breaks into two, one for the central heating and the other must be to the cooker at the back of the house. Seems to be the cookers feed that has been hit.

This is starting to sound expensive.:(

deandean

I was digging my driveway a couple of years ago and I found the incoming gas pipe, the modern plastic type, it was only 150mm approx below ground level. I could easily have put a pickaxe through it!

pippip

Had a guy out this afternoon to repair the pipe. Just needed the section cut out and new piece put it. No need to move any deeper. Just said since its that way a repair is all but be aware of it. turned out the pipe was at the surface, literally a small layer of dirt over it, could basically uncover it with a sweeping brush. Will place a slab on concrete over it when fixed properly.

Anyway now we have a new problem. Once he went to turn on the mains he couldn't get the flow going through to the house. It's going through the meter ok but when it reaches the house it's not going to either the cooker or central heating. the cooker line being the repair so should have no problem reaching the boiler.

After hours of pressure testing he thinks the pipe from the meter to the house has now collapsed somehow. He doubled the pressure and found absolutely no drop in pressure so thinks it most have collapsed but also sealed in the process as he said a collapse would normally have punctured the pipe in someway. He even opened the first joint as it reaches the house before dividing in two but still the pressure stayed.

Have now contacted insurance company to see if they will cover laying a new pipe. As usual they weren't able to give me a straight answer.

shane0007

pippip wrote: »

Had a guy out this afternoon to repair the pipe. Just needed the section cut out and new piece put it. No need to move any deeper. Just said since its that way a repair is all but be aware of it. turned out the pipe was at the surface, literally a small layer of dirt over it, could basically uncover it with a sweeping brush. Will place a slab on concrete over it when fixed properly.

Anyway now we have a new problem. Once he went to turn on the mains he couldn't get the flow going through to the house. It's going through the meter ok but when it reaches the house it's not going to either the cooker or central heating. the cooker line being the repair so should have no problem reaching the boiler.

After hours of pressure testing he thinks the pipe from the meter to the house has now collapsed somehow. He doubled the pressure and found absolutely no drop in pressure so thinks it most have collapsed but also sealed in the process as he said a collapse would normally have punctured the pipe in someway. He even opened the first joint as it reaches the house before dividing in two but still the pressure stayed.

Have now contacted insurance company to see if they will cover laying a new pipe. As usual they weren't able to give me a straight answer.

Not being funny but you cannot do a repair like that & leave a gas pipe with such cover. Did he issue you with a Notice of Hazard?

Another silly question but it would be very simpl to determine if the pipe was blocked. Did he blow through one end with somebody else on the other end? Pipe do not collapse for no reason.

pippip

shane0007 wrote: »

Not being funny but you cannot do a repair like that & leave a gas pipe with such cover. Did he issue you with a Notice of Hazard?

Another silly question but it would be very simpl to determine if the pipe was blocked. Did he blow through one end with somebody else on the other end? Pipe do not collapse for no reason.

Bord Gais issued the notice of hazard when they initially turned it off.

From what I gathered he had a pressure gauge on the meter showing 48"somethings?" said this would normally be low twenties. He then was trying to loosen the first connection at the house, which he did and the pressure never changed.

The pipe that is close to the surface is only by the house. It looks to run flush with the house for about two meters before going under the house. From the meter to the house we are guessing is the correct depth but who knows.

He was really at a lose as to what could have caused it suddenly like this. Bord Gais turned off the gas at 2:30 and then retested it at 8 that evening and all was still fine then. Only today it won't turn back on. From what he can see all they did was turn the leaver and stick a tag on it. When he turns the lever and takes off the pressure gauge the gas is escaping and meter turning so meter seems fine.

This has not been a good week!

Dtp1979

pippip wrote: »

Bord Gais issued the notice of hazard when they initially turned it off.

From what I gathered he had a pressure gauge on the meter showing 48"somethings?" said this would normally be low twenties. He then was trying to loosen the first connection at the house, which he did and the pressure never changed.

The pipe that is close to the surface is only by the house. It looks to run flush with the house for about two meters before going under the house. From the meter to the house we are guessing is the correct depth but who knows.

He was really at a lose as to what could have caused it suddenly like this. Bord Gais turned off the gas at 2:30 and then retested it at 8 that evening and all was still fine then. Only today it won't turn back on. From what he can see all they did was turn the leaver and stick a tag on it. When he turns the lever and takes off the pressure gauge the gas is escaping and meter turning so meter seems fine.

This has not been a good week!

Is there a cap in the meter that they forgot to take out? Seems very strange. As Shane said, pipes don't collapse for no reason, and if they did they usually aren't airtight. Tell him to take the working pressure of the boiler

pippip

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Is there a cap in the meter that they forgot to take out? Seems very strange. As Shane said, pipes don't collapse for no reason, and if they did they usually aren't airtight. Tell him to take the working pressure of the boiler

I know what you mean lads. At first I thought maybe the drop in pressure could have caused a collapse. But the guy today said the pressure wouldn't be that strong to support a flaw in the first place. Also the fact that on the day it happened the Bord Gais man turned it back on in the evening so I would have assumed a possible collapse would have happened when it was first turned off. And as you all said it would be an amazing feat to collapse and not either have a small passage through or for it not to have broken the side walls.

The Notice of Hazard has that the meter was "Locked". But I cant believe a tag and turning the lever could be classed as a "Lock".

The guy today had the pressure meter on a small nipple at the point at which the gas leaves the meter and heads into the upside down u-bend. He remarked that when he took the gauge off that it was taking a while for the whistling noise to stop so he felt the possible blockage would have been a fair but down the pipe. This could have all been guess work on his part.
Apart from the lever neither of us could see any signs of what they could have moved or turned. All the pipes looked very dirty and no abrasion marks.

I'll take a photo tomorrow of the meter to show you all. I might see if Bord Gais have someone in the area who can test it for us and see what they might have done with the meter. When Bord Gais were there turning it off they were a good 5-10 minutes and I cannot see how they spent so long just to turn a lever and slap a tag on it.

PS Now that I think of it, the Bord Gais guy specifically pointed out the a registered installer would be able to reactivate the meter so no need to call them out!

corkgsxr

My bet is he never took the blank out.

And that pipe should he buried

Egass13

Sounds like there's a cap in it as dec said . Would explain why there's gas at the nipple and no where else. And if it turns out that's what wrong I'd review your choice of RGI

Egass13

Sounds like there's a cap in it as dec said . Would explain why there's gas at the nipple and no where else. And if it turns out that's what wrong I'd review your choice of RGI

pippip

Cheers Lads, will call Bord Gais in the morning. Only picked him off the RGII site cause he was local. He even called his boss in the middle of it to troubleshoot, but he did come across as knowing his stuff and not being a beginner.

In fairness never met the guy before and after 3-4 hours work he never charged me a penny.

shane0007

He must issue a new NOH. The BGN NOH was for the leak.

pippip

shane0007 wrote: »

He must issue a new NOH. The BGN NOH was for the leak.

He did mention that the fix was not tested and that it would need to be tested once all was back running. Maybe he would have at the end.

We are planning on moving the boiler to the back of the house. At the moment its an old gas stove fire (housewarmer) with built in boiler fitted into the chimney in the living room.

We are also getting a porch built once we can afford it. Will get it all properly done then.

We are completely smashed at the moment, just cant catch a break financially.

I did ring two other installers on the site prior to him who both just suggested the same fix without moving the pipes. Both were too busy to get to us til next week.

Egass13

pippip wrote: »

He did mention that the fix was not tested and that it would need to be tested once all was back running. Maybe he would have at the end.

We are planning on moving the boiler to the back of the house. At the moment its an old gas stove fire (housewarmer) with built in boiler fitted into the chimney in the living room.

We are also getting a porch built once we can afford it. Will get it all properly done then.

We are completely smashed at the moment, just cant catch a break financially.

I did ring two other installers on the site prior to him who both just suggested the same fix without moving the pipes. Both were too busy to get to us til next week.

Are you planning on moving the existing boiler ? Have you a chimney at the back of the house ?

pippip

Egass13 wrote: »

Are you planning on moving the existing boiler ? Have you a chimney at the back of the house ?

No way, I'd be getting a brand new standard boiler. gas is there cause of the cooker but would need a bit of plumbing to get the heating system re-routed.

Egass13

pippip wrote: »

No way, I'd be getting a brand new standard boiler. gas is there cause of the cooker but would need a bit of plumbing to get the heating system re-routed.

That's ok , I was hoping that's what you meant !

pippip

Big thank you to all on here. Got the problem sorted.

As a few of you mentioned I called Bord gais who confirmed a blocking cap should have been in there. So called the guy who was here yesterday and as soon as I said the cap he immediately came out. He had looked for it but when he swung out the meter the cap was stuck in the underside of the pipe rather than in the top of the meter.

Think he was fairly embarrassed over the whole thing.

Anyway finally have heating and cooker working and most importantly my wife has finally stopped moaning at me........for the moment!

shane0007

Glad you are sorted for now but did he issue you with another NOH?
How did he repair the pipe, compression fitting, electro fusion or solder as you cannot have a compression fitting buried?
The issue of the level of pipe is still a severe hazard & needs to be dealt with. What if somebody else unknowingly hits the pipe & ain't so lucky this time? Now you know the problem is there & are knowingly not acting upon resolving it, your insurance may be null & void should there be another problem in the future.

The RGI you just had has not done or followed the correct procedures for gas safety.

pippip

shane0007 wrote: »

Glad you are sorted for now but did he issue you with another NOH?
How did he repair the pipe, compression fitting, electro fusion or solder as you cannot have a compression fitting buried?
The issue of the level of pipe is still a severe hazard & needs to be dealt with. What if somebody else unknowingly hits the pipe & ain't so lucky this time? Now you know the problem is there & are knowingly not acting upon resolving it, your insurance may be null & void should there be another problem in the future.

The RGI you just had has not done or followed the correct procedures for gas safety.

No, he issued a "Declaration of Conformance with existing installation" cert. I think he used a solder join as he mentioned about having a "support ceiling" put over the connection before any weight as the solder would collapse. At the moment its just left exposed.

Yeh i'm going to tackle covering it this week. I'll take a photo of the area tomorrow and would love to hear any suggestions as I am a bit stumped on what would be best.

shane0007

He should have issued a NOH. You cannot just cover the pipe. It must be buried to a minimum depth of 375mm & covered with sand & warning tape & back filled as per set out in IS813 regulations.

The Cert he issued to you means nothing if it does not actually conform, but that is his risk & his stupidity.
If you actually read the declaration part of the cert, you will see exactly what he has declared & taken responsibility for!