Poor demand for bulls

blue5000

Anyone else finding it hard to get bulls off for slaughter? What sort of feedback are ye getting from agents for next year? Is 16 months the only way to go or is castration and keeping them around for an extra year the answer?

on the river

blue5000 wrote: »

Anyone else finding it hard to get bulls off for slaughter? What sort of feedback are ye getting from agents for next year? Is 16 months the only way to go or is castration and keeping them around for an extra year the answer?

Dont castrare them . It is unnatural and they lack performance afterwards.
Seperate them into their own group with intensive feeding of quality silage and nuts. Keep them 18 months max . You will only lose money otherwise.

49801

Always hard to get bulls away during traditional upsurges in supply.
Need to target the slacker periods for bulls when there is a supply shortage.

nashmach

blue5000 wrote: »

Anyone else finding it hard to get bulls off for slaughter? What sort of feedback are ye getting from agents for next year? Is 16 months the only way to go or is castration and keeping them around for an extra year the answer?

No bulls here but factory demand for them is dire at present, in particular if they are FR's.

Could be sending out a message, who knows....

keep going

Its the usual factory stunt -creat a market and suck in enough lads then pull the rug out from under them soak up the cheap cattle

6480

49801 wrote: »

Always hard to get bulls away during traditional upsurges in supply.
Need to target the slacker periods for bulls when there is a supply shortage.

i use to feed all breeds of bulls years ago and kill from 15 to 18 mnths , i kind of found it hard to have them ready at the right times of year for a good price ,

bob charles

keep going wrote: »

Its the usual factory stunt -creat a market and suck in enough lads then pull the rug out from under them soak up the cheap cattle

this was flagged for well over 12 months.

Farmer Pudsey

The window for bulls is getting tighter and tighter. A lot of fellas could get burnt this year even though bulls seem cheap during August/September. Would not unduly panic yet people forget that meat killed from now on is completing with the Christmas Turkey. Most houses take 3-4 day's to finish the f##ker.

However a rise Christmas week seems unlikely. A few good omens however at the last cattle cencus at the start of the year there was 100K extra cattle in the system compared to 2012. These are all out of the system yearly kill is 99K ahead of 2012. The bull kill has dropped by 50% so may not be as many in the system as we think. Cattle kill could drop over next few weeks and if it happens and you have a few goats get them ready.

After all they used horses didn't they:D:D

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

this was flagged for well over 12 months.

And the bastards only started campagining hard to stop bulls being exported as calves around 2 years ago so keep going is absolutely correct. I hope farmers leave as many HO's off as possible this spring and every other.

manjou

blue5000 wrote: »

Anyone else finding it hard to get bulls off for slaughter? What sort of feedback are ye getting from agents for next year? Is 16 months the only way to go or is castration and keeping them around for an extra year the answer?

Always used to fatten bulls at under 16 months here but done it with spring born weanlings and had them gone in end may when cattle got scarce never had problem finishing them.This year castrated as calves to see how it would work and am going to finish them in different batches at different ages to see which will pay the most first batch going in may at 15 months only an experiment.Bulls where to hard managed with other cattle around the place especially heifers.

Farmer Pudsey

manjou wrote: »

Always used to fatten bulls at under 16 months here but done it with spring born weanlings and had them gone in end may when cattle got scarce never had problem finishing them.This year castrated as calves to see how it would work and am going to finish them in different batches at different ages to see which will pay the most first batch going in may at 15 months only an experiment.Bulls where to hard managed with other cattle around the place especially heifers.

with good quality spring born suckler weanlings U16 month targeted for May/June is still ver profitable. These bulls seem capable of killing 350kgs on the grid. fat score would be the only worry but should be capable of getting into 2+/3- if the average U- 9cover the base and QA another 12c/kg. Allowing for a base of 4.5 these cattle average 4.7 and come into 1650 euro. Even averaging 1500 euro they should for breeders be quite profitable.

U16 month buckety fed are a totally different kettle of fish.

tim04750

Is the QA paid on under 16s ?

manjou

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

with good quality spring born suckler weanlings U16 month targeted for May/June is still ver profitable. These bulls seem capable of killing 350kgs on the grid. fat score would be the only worry but should be capable of getting into 2+/3- if the average U- 9cover the base and QA another 12c/kg. Allowing for a base of 4.5 these cattle average 4.7 and come into 1650 euro. Even averaging 1500 euro they should for breeders be quite profitable.

U16 month buckety fed are a totally different kettle of fish.

But if you can get 2.25 a kg liveweight plus in mart then the profitability gets pretty close to even to selling as weanlings when you count all costs in but if you are down around 2 euro then better fatten.This year 400 kg 2.35 940 euro and at 4.2 on grid they would need to hit 370 kg to break even.

Farmer Pudsey

manjou wrote: »

But if you can get 2.25 a kg liveweight plus in mart then the profitability gets pretty close to even to selling as weanlings when you count all costs in but if you are down around 2 euro then better fatten.This year 400 kg 2.35 940 euro and at 4.2 on grid they would need to hit 370 kg to break even.

It all depends on when you are atgeting them for.If under 16 months in May/June and over 400kgs October/November thyen there is potential for profit. This is assuming that you are able to keep costs down and achieve good weight gains.

At 4.2 on the grid a 370kg bull would make 1630 euro I would expect to be able to feed him and finish with an operating margin of 690 euro. However a lot depends on your cost base. I see lads paying 290/ton for finishing nut in bags I consider it quite expensive.On a bull eating a ton of ration it takes 50 from your margin.

Assuming that they killed 350@ a base of 4.2 they would make 1540
Again killing at 4350 and a base of 4.5 they would make 1650.

However it is a gamble you have to look at your costs assume a base price and when you can finish them for and do your costs ans most important look see if you have the cash flow to do it.

Hershall

Hi folks got left with 20 bulls not heavy enuf to sell in september then price not good enuf!! Theyre in shed gettin 69 dmd silage and 10kg of bull nuts. Seem to be doing well theyre about 570kg live weight. Am new to this game they say very hard to get right fat score on bulls ie. 2+. They about 18 mths old. Any advice would be appreciated.:)

49801

What's the makeup of the bull nut?
I'd be thinking replace the silage with straw, drop the protein to 12% and up the energy through maize if not already to get some fat cover on them

Hershall

Nut is 12.5 protein high in maize barley and corn gluten. Was hoping to avoid straw as I dont have any!!

freedominacup

Hershall wrote: »

Nut is 12.5 protein high in maize barley and corn gluten. Was hoping to avoid straw as I dont have any!!

What breed, how long are they on the 10kgs, what weight were they starting?

Hershall

In shed since 22nd October getting 7kg up to recently got 3 kg for a month in field.Id say tbey 450kg starting out!

TUBBY

Hershall wrote: »

Hi folks got left with 20 bulls not heavy enuf to sell in september then price not good enuf!! Theyre in shed gettin 69 dmd silage and 10kg of bull nuts. Seem to be doing well theyre about 570kg live weight. Am new to this game they say very hard to get right fat score on bulls ie. 2+. They about 18 mths old. Any advice would be appreciated.:)

the meal should be high energy. Don't worry about protein. 12% would be plenty. High maize levels. Also would limit the silage as it replacing meal intake is no good to you. Ad-lib meal, good access to water and you can do up to 120 days intensive feeding without a tail-off in performance. If you have someone who could have a look at them for fat score a month before you intend selling, it would be worthwhile. You are crucified if ya don't get to 2+

Hershall

Sound will give it a go but im wary of ad lib as Im afraid I might sicken them!!

TUBBY

You will need to keep some fibre source anyway such as silage or ideally straw. Just would limit the amount of silage in front of them.
Best of luck with it

49801

Hershall wrote: »

Sound will give it a go but im wary of ad lib as Im afraid I might sicken them!!

You are practically ad lib already. The silage is only diluting the ration and slowing performance. Full ad lib would be just over 12kg/day
Are you feedin ration twice daily? Be better if you were while upping the feed rate.
Up the daily amount by a kilo every 3 days till they can't clean the trough and you will be fine.
Just keep a close eye on them and don't let them run out of feed once on the full diet.

jomoloney

my neighbour sent off a double yesterday,

they were housed since july , have'nt a clue of price or where they went,

Hershall

Sound lads thx lets hope for a price rise!!!

Farmer Pudsey

Hershall wrote: »

Hi folks got left with 20 bulls not heavy enuf to sell in september then price not good enuf!! Theyre in shed gettin 69 dmd silage and 10kg of bull nuts. Seem to be doing well theyre about 570kg live weight. Am new to this game they say very hard to get right fat score on bulls ie. 2+. They about 18 mths old. Any advice would be appreciated.:)

Listen lads I think the game is up. Have been at this game for a while, I might break even but even Freedomincup has struggled this year. Game is up the circus has left town we will roll the big TOP up and carry on as Bomber Liston said in July '87.

It has been good while it has lasted

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Listen lads I think the game is up. Have been at this game for a while, I might break even but even Freedomincup has struggled this year. Game is up the circus has left town we will roll the big TOP up and carry on as Bomber Liston said in July '87.

It has been good while it has lasted

Don't be confusing the man Pudsey. What I know about finishing cattle esp bought in cattle could be written in big letters on the back of a small stamp. We do a bit of HO bull beef from time to time when circumstances dictate, that's all. The only comment I'd make to hershall is that he's facing an uphill task to keep costs under control with 69DMD silage. Bulls certainly HO bulls can be finished with as low as 6kgs of silage with good quality grass silage. We did them this year with 5.5kgs/day with good quality wholecrop on a 100 day finishing period.

If you want some real advice on this hershall bob and Pudsey are your men.