Dolph is not a main eventer why?

Rjd2

So last year Dolph was tussling with Cena and now? Jobbing to the insanely tedious ADR and struggling to get onto PPV.

I think he deserves better but unlike some I can't ever see the guy closing shows on a regular basis. As a heel which he was for years he needed Vickie and AJ for heat and his flashy moveset and mental bumping was something I'd associate with a face. Despite that, when face he has shown very little to suggest he could over outside some hardcore smark areas. Little charisma when he talks and the character just isn't that likable or someone the audience could relate to.

Compared to Cena, Bryan and Punk, he has nothing for the majority to root behind.


Am I been harsh? Is it booking to be blamed?

slicus ricus

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

Rjd2 wrote: »

So last year Dolph was tussling with Cena and now? Jobbing to the insanely tedious ADR and struggling to get onto PPV.

I think he deserves better but unlike some I can't ever see the guy closing shows on a regular basis. As a heel which he was for years he needed Vickie and AJ for heat and his flashy moveset and mental bumping was something I'd associate with a face. Despite that, when face he has shown very little to suggest he could over outside some hardcore smark areas. Little charisma when he talks and the character just isn't that likable or someone the audience could relate to.

Compared to Cena, Bryan and Punk, he has nothing for the majority to root behind.


Am I been harsh? Is it booking to be blamed?

I am going for booking to blame here. I want to make it clear that it's not that I think he is ever going to be the main guy to close the show on a regular basis - I am still undecided on that.

The reason I am blaming booking is that when he had a significant amount of momentum behind him, they more or less wasted it in terms of booking. Basically, I think that the booking hasn't really given him the chance to cement his place as one of the top guys that can be relied upon to close a show. I would say that he should be given more of a run to prove whether or not he has what it takes to do that!

Nody

Other reason

Sorry but someone bad mouthing off about the company you work for during a push will never be the guy closing the show as it shows a lack of understanding of how things work and how to politic in the locker room.

SirDelboy18

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

I understand that you can't be bad mouthing during a push, but sometimes the politicking that goes on in there is just stupid.

I'm definitely blaming creative because I felt he was reasonably over, he is a good worker, isn't amazing on promos but he isn't terrible either.

Think he can fill a tweener-face role pretty well and while I wouldn't have him closing shows right now, I think in a year or two, had the push not been torpedo'd, he could have potentially done so

Always found his interviews very refreshingly honest too.

slicus ricus

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

Nody wrote: »

Sorry but someone bad mouthing off about the company you work for during a push will never be the guy closing the show as it shows a lack of understanding of how things work and how to politic in the locker room.

Absolutely agree. I wasn't aware that Ziggler did that. What did he say in bad mouthing the company?

rovert

Drilling below the sniping about the company. A lot of people hate his personality. He is kind of like what Raven was during his career minus the drugs. Just very sarcastic, egotistical and unlikable. I've never read "oh he is just misunderstood."

bobby_says_hi

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

He acts like a heel but wrestles like a face. Similar problem with Miz when he turned face. There's never been that moment where either of them made the character switch. I've seen footage of him in OVW when he played a more traditional face and he did really well - he had some good face charisma without coming across as bland or generic. He has to drop a lot of the arrogance and become more likeable in order to cut it as a face. Either that or drop the flashy wrestling and play a heel properly

CSF

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

I think he is fantastic. Definitely would have done a good job of pushing the WHC forward.

Nody

Other reason

slicus ricus wrote: »

Absolutely agree. I wasn't aware that Ziggler did that. What did he say in bad mouthing the company?

The big reason that Dolph Ziggler is back in the midcard after his World Heavyweight title run is that he reportedly has a bad attitude around other superstars and media. WWE is not happy with how he represents himself both within the company and during media appearances.

Linky as an example; you can also listen to his attitude here (which is not over the top but still...) at the 5 min mark when he's answering the question "When will Ziggler be the face of WWE?"

SimonQuinlank

Bland promos,inherently unlikeable personality (that Raven comparison is a good one that I've not heard before),wrestling style not suited to being either a main event heel or face.

gnfnrhead

Other reason

Because he is a midcarder. Pure and simple. Not everyone will be a main eventer. Nothing to do with booking, that's just his level.

Other reasons he will never be a main eventer:

His beyond retarded overselling of every single move.
He isnt at all likable.
His in ring ability is average at best.
His promos are generally incredibly bad.
Even AJ Lee and Vickie Guerrero, two of the hottest acts in wrestling, couldnt get him over.
Only once has he ever gotten more than an average reaction from the crowd.

Midcarder for life.

DM_7

Why? Because `they' don't want him to be but that's just being a smart arse.

He is good enough to be very high on the card if WWE wanted him to be there, but it does seem to be outside the bell to bell of a match that has him down the card. Rovert has put it well.

In the ring he is capable of having very good matches with a variety of people and has the matches to prove it with Cena, Punk, Bryan, Orton, Edge, Del Rio, Sheamus, Mysterio, Y2J. Those names prove he is well thought of in the ring but outside the ring is his problem. The fact guys like Cena, Punk and Jericho wanted to work with him back it up more.

Lithium93_

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

I'm going to blame WWE's creative team for Dolph not being a main eventer, and if dirtsheets are to be believed, his attitude backstage isn't helping his case

LOTD

Ziggler arrogant so what, so was Michaels get over it. I agree with bobby says hi where his main problem is there is a contradiction between his in ring style and how he carries himself in general. For a guy who is well able to talk, when handed the mic he falls so flat.

Rovert do you know why he is unlike bar reading the dirt sheets.

Also gnfnrhead have you ring experience yourself, I find it so cheap when fans have a go at a guys in ring ability.

DM_7

Michaels probably only survived his own arrogance thanks to the lads in Atlanta hoovering up so many of the established names and HBK being one of the few lads left. In a competitive wrestling scene Ziggler (and a fair few others) wouldn't be where they are in the pecking order of WWE.

GTR63

People please stop comparing Shawn Michaels with Dolph Ziggler, the difference in ability is massive

LOTD

DM-ICE wrote: »

Michaels probably only survived his own arrogance thanks to the lads in Atlanta hoovering up so many of the established names and HBK being one of the few lads left. In a competitive wrestling scene Ziggler (and a fair few others) wouldn't be where they are in the pecking order of WWE.

You got take into account as well that the WWE is now a public traded company you wouldn't want to say too much dumb stuff about your employer. Michaels circa 97 wouldn't last in WWE today, a lot of guys to be fair wouldn't do great in WWE today. There really isn't any room to shoot from the hip anymore.

LOTD

GTR63 wrote: »

People please stop comparing Shawn Michaels with Dolph Ziggler, the difference in ability is massive

No my opinion, your allowed to have yours. He isn't as good but I see similarities.

CSF

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

GTR63 wrote: »

People please stop comparing Shawn Michaels with Dolph Ziggler, the difference in ability is massive

I wouldn't say massive, the difference definitely exists but it isn't massive IMO.

Vision of Disorder

I think Ziggler's ring work is outstanding tbh and the Michaels comparisons make a lot of sense to me too. Though I always thought Michaels was somewhat over-rated (still terrific mind you but over-rated) and loved Raven too so I think I may be short of allies on this thread.

Charisteas

I like everything about Ziggler, his ring work is always entertaining, don't mind him on the mic, and I like his arrogant nature. Prefer him as a face though.

There's a pecking order and he's well down the list. As were guys like Mr Perfect, Razor Ramon, British Bulldog, John Morrison, Jeff Jarrett, Owen Hart, Ken Shamrock, I even want to say William Regal, John Morrison, and Matt Hardy too. They were rarely/never in the main event because there was always a few guys ahead of them. But it's fair to say that they were all still fairly big stars in their own right.

If Cena and Ortons belts are unified, then it's time to add some prestige to the Intercontinental Championship again. Guys like Ziggler, Sandow, Barrett should be going for that that belt whilst trying to break into the top tier.

Vision of Disorder

Charisteas wrote: »

There's a pecking order and he's well down the list. As were guys like Mr Perfect, Razor Ramon, British Bulldog, John Morrison, Jeff Jarrett, Owen Hart, Ken Shamrock, I even want to say William Regal, John Morrison, and Matt Hardy too. They were rarely/never in the main event because there was always a few guys ahead of them. But it's fair to say that they were all still fairly big stars in their own right.

I agree with your overall point but I would contend it's fair to say that Matt Hardy would have gotten nowhere were it not for little brother's coat tails. One of the mysteries of contemporary wrestling for me is that Matt Hardy stayed relevant for as long as he did.

bobby_says_hi

Doesn't have enough upside to close a show

There is another possible reason they might not want to put him in the main event. He's well known for his selling. He makes his opponents look very good. The company does need jobbers to make the stars look good. They might not feel there's anyone who can fill that spot in his place. Like Chris Jericho said "if you can make your opponent look good, you'll always have a job but you'll always do the job"

Ridley

Charisteas wrote: »

I like everything about Ziggler, his ring work is always entertaining, don't mind him on the mic, and I like his arrogant nature.

Yip. Ziggler's the one I most enjoy watching these days. He's by no means perfect on a microphone but it seemed to me that he got paired with Guerrero so she could be the mouthpiece and he improved in the meantime.

There have been plenty of cocky faces, I don't see the problem with Ziggler as another one.

(If he'd stuck around, I think Matt Hardy would have gotten to the same level Christian's at now.)