NUIG Pray-away-the-gay Soc

saidinmilamber

So this is currently a thing in Galway... :mad:


http://www.theemptyshirt.com/2013/11/30/nuigs-legion-of-mary-society-sticks-it-to-gay-people/

I've been told to file a formal complaint to Patrick O'Flaherty and Pat Morgan. That's the best way to kill funding to that awful society. I would strongly encourage people to do the same. Here's some email addresses if ya'll want to help!

su.socs@nuigalway.ie
pat.morgan@nuigalway.ie
socsofficer@socs.nuigalway.ie

FouxDaFaFa

Hey OP, I'm the one who wrote that article you linked to. First heard about it on Reddit and was pretty disgusted by it. I'm from Galway and an NUIG Alumni so it's extra personal.

Happy to help out with emailing.

Generally, I think shutting down groups with silly views is a slippery slope but the minute they start hurting other people with their rhetoric it becomes something else.

If they want to preach chastity and stuff, great. But being a religious group shouldn't give them license to insult a whole student demographic and imply they're inferior.

Edit: found this on my travels. They have a 12-step programme, modelled on Alcoholics Anonymous.

LegacyUser

Hey Guys,

Best of luck with this. and they talk about gay groups trying recruit people.

When I was younger and extremely unhappy about my sexuality I found a book called "you don't have to be gay". I read it and at the start it talked about a young fella who was very unhappy and through sheer perserverance he managed to become straight. I lapped up the book and thought maybe this could happen for me.

Then half way through Boom! F**kin god.

It started out of nowhere, pray to christ, repent REPENT etc.

It really f*cked me up extra on top of all the other **** going on in there.

These scocieties are really damaging to people in that mindset. Luckily nowadays there is a lot more positive information online or in the community so is less likely to happen to young people.

I don't mind people turning to god, being celibate etc but only if it is their choice and not that they've been recruited through appealing to their vulnerable condition.

Ps : I found that book again years later and ripped it up and binned it so nooone else could read it.

Links234

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

But being a religious group shouldn't give them license to insult a whole student demographic and imply they're inferior.

I saw this and I was disgusted, but not because it's an insult, it's something that is far worse than merely implying LGBT people are inferior. These so called "reparative" therapies are extremely harmful and widely discredited, they not only do no work, they do serious harm to the people who undergo them.

saidinmilamber

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Hey OP, I'm the one who wrote that article you linked to.

I was laughing my ass off at the language you used in it, well done!! Please that you hung those spoof posters around campus?? And thanks a million for putting the email details onto your article

FouxDaFaFa

Got this back from Pat Morgan. She responded in 7 minutes.

Dear Sarah,
Thank you for sharing your concerns and taking the time to provide the detailed analysis. I can assure you that we are taking appropriate action.
Sincerely,
Pat Morgan

She may have been making fun of me a little with "detailed analysis". I like to be thorough! :pac:

eyescreamcone

Go sell crazy some place else. We're all stocked up here.

FouxDaFaFa

saidinmilamber wrote: »

I was laughing my ass off at the language you used in it, well done!! Please that you hung those spoof posters around campus?? And thanks a million for putting the email details onto your article

I haven't been able to get over yet but there's no stopping any students sticking a few up. Link here. Although I know printer credit is valuable!

Manco

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Got this back from Pat Morgan. He responded in 7 minutes.


He may have been making fun of me a little with "detailed analysis". I like to be thorough! :pac:

Pat Morgan is a she. :P Received a similar email from her.

FouxDaFaFa

Manco wrote: »

Pat Morgan is a she. :P Received a similar email from her.

I'm using the excuse that I'm not longer at the college. :pac:

Ambersky

Dont know how relevant this is but if you need examples of how this pray away the gay thing, within catholicism, does not work I am one of those people.

Ive been through the lot, support group, priest led recession therapy, sacrament of the sick etc many years ago. All mixed in with the many and various sexual anxieties of those dumping them on me as support. It was not the group in question but it was catholic and they were praying away the gay, or trying to and thanking and praising god for this blessing. It was this groups predecessor I suppose.
Picture this, a priest anointing my hands with oil as he asks me if I masturbate...it goes on but I wont go on about it here.
I was given oil to anoint my genitals later but I met at least one gay man who had his genitals "anointed" to cure him of homosexuality.

I now consider this type of behavior to be a form of religious or ritual abuse.

Pray away the gay can get really weird, well it is really weird anyway, and it is a way of taking advantage of peoples emotional psychological and spiritual (if you believe that exists) vulnerability.

On the positive side of things I have had an unexpected interaction with a catholic priest who asked for my forgiveness on his knees for what happened to me. I believe he was genuine and he asked for my permission every step of the way and did not take my responses for granted. I was only representing myself and not for anything that happened to anyone else and I reminded him of that. If at some time that is appropriate to talk about in this thread I will write about it but for now Im just including it.

saidinmilamber

That all sounds so distressing, I really hope you've been able to move on from it somehow since then. Thanks for sharing your story though, it really helps to get across that these people are doing great harm to people.

BanzaiBk

Fair play for highlighting the issue and taking direct action. 'Christian' values indeed.

L.Jenkins

Really starting to get sick of religious groups and their pray away the gay philosophy. I felt myself going daft last night looking at how Christians try to discredit Atheists also. I'm finding it harder each day to fathom what this worlds major fúcking malfunction is sometimes.

hfallada

Look at there website again and see whats its really all about

http://couragerc.net/Make_Contribution.html

$250 a month to some that is a INC corporation aka a company. Also google map the address and it looks like its HQ is in a house and not a church building at all

Ambersky

saidinmilamber said
I really hope you've been able to move on from it somehow since then

Im absolutely fine saidinmilamber, that was many years ago and Ive had loads of time to process it all.
It has left me particularly sensitive to how vulnerable LGBT people can be when they are isolated and when they have not come to terms with themselves because I know how vulnerable I was.

There are reasons people become attracted to organisations that make them feel welcome and a part of things, who say they offer love and a purpose or meaning in life. LGBT people when coming out sometimes feel they are no longer welcome or accepted by their communities, including their church and its community. If you have been involved in church and have been committed to it, the experience of rejection can leave one bereft and searching for something to be part of and for something to believe in, with people who believe in you. The attraction of a christian group offering these things can be strong and they can have a lot of power over people who have been made vulnerable in this way.

Sometimes groups like this recognise better than we do the power and importance of a feeling of community and of belonging .

It's important to stay connected to others who welcome us as we are and understand our struggle as we travel along the journey to understanding SSA and strengthening our relationship with God!

http://couragerc.net/Young_Adults.html

People are as has already been said entitled to their own opinions without hurting anyone.
This kind of "ministry" preys, not prays, over vulnerable LGBT people.
They not only want to offer their own kind of community to others they also want to prevent young LGBT people meeting one another or talking about their sexuality.

Individual Catholic teenagers who are experiencing same-sex attraction do need to find a safe venue to speak with someone about their concerns and fears; however, a group setting in which young people publicly identify as “gay” or “lesbian” is not advisable. There is no need to publicly label oneself as having same-sex desires, a condition that may very well be transitory. Even if the group was private, that would also be unadvisable. Young people who are gathering specifically to identify themselves as being same-sex attracted, may actually still be conflicted about their sexuality and even striving for chastity. ..............
Young Catholics who are experiencing same-sex attractions ideally should have access to both Catholic therapists and Catholic priests who solidly support the Church’s teaching on chastity.

http://couragerc.net/Catholic_Schools.html

FouxDaFaFa

Update today - NUIG has suspended the Legion of Mary Society and released this statement.

NUI Galway has a pluralist ethos and will not condone the production and dissemination of any material by students which discriminates against other students. Discrimination or implied or direct harassment, on the basis of sexual orientation and /or religion, is contrary to Irish and European law.

The Vice-President for the Student Experience initiated a process of enquiry to review the actions of the Society in question in the context of the University code of conduct, the University policy on harassment and Irish and European equality law.

The University Societies Coordination Group met yesterday, Tuesday 3rd December, and suspended the Society named the NUIG Legion of Mary with immediate effect.
NUI Galway is committed to protecting the liberty and equality of all students and does not condone such behaviour.

Ambersky

Thank you saidinmilamber FouxDaFaFa and everyone else who has done work by emailing or otherwise bringing this issue to light.
Im impressed that the reaction of the authorities of the college has been so swift and effective. Its also wonderful to have equality legislation in place and to have the power to tell people this is against Irish and European law. Lots of people put work into making that happen, great to see it in action.
It sends a very clear message that homophobia of this kind will not be tolerated and importantly also, it makes an impression on those who are maybe ashamed of or not comfortable with their sexuality. It sends a message that there are others who think it is perfectly all right to be LGBT and not fair game for people who want to exploit them in this way.
Very Very well done.

saidinmilamber

Bualadh bos gach duine! Let's remember this victory when the mud slinging during the marriage equality referendum makes you lose faith in humanity!

ewan whose army

I can see how people can fall for this, I would have done a few years ago if I am honest. But yeah it isn't goingg to help a young LGBT teen who doesn't know what they are. I once tried being celibate and denying yourself of love, of intimacy with another soul, of companionship hurts, it was so lonely, 18 single while all your friends are dating etc. hurts. For me it ended up in self harm and suicide attempts. This isn't fair, it isn't right and it will ruin lives.

Anyway the tone of this is basically "Being Gay is wrong, God says so the only way you will be better if you are not gay"

The fact the email address mentions Dublin worries me,that thing kind of thing is going on in my town. If I was in NUIG I would have put one of those stonewall stickers over it "BEING GAY IS OK" or something similar.

People are entitled to their religious beliefs however when they risk psychologically damaging someone (as this would) then it crosses the line. The UK is planning to ban Pray the Gray away nonsense and fake therapies, Ireland should follow.

I went to a Catholic school as a kid (in England) and I actually came out to one of the priests however he told me to go to the local LGBT centre and learn to deal with it since he said the "Vatican is misguided on this" . Not all Catholics buy this type of thing.

I went on their website

They only serve 18 and above, so they don't touch teens because it can get them in trouble, they know what they are doing is dangerous they just don't admit it.

Ambersky

They have a Catholic Schools page ewan whos army so they are seeking to influence teens as well. They may not be inviting the teens to the meetings but they want to influence the adults in their lives.
http://couragerc.net/Catholic_Schools.html

The advice to parents of LGBT children in the article linked to on that page states

In addressing how a parent should deal with an adolescent who is confused about his sexual identity, the document says "If your son or daughter is an adolescent, it is possible that he or she may be experimenting with some homosexual behaviours as part of the process of coming to terms with sexual identity. Isolated acts do not make someone homosexual. Adolescence is often accompanied by anxiety or confusion about sexual identity. Sometimes the best approach may be a `wait and see' attitude, while you try to maintain a trusting relationship and provide various kinds of support, information and encouragement."
This "wait and see" attitude is very dangerous. If someone is attracted to drugs or to alcohol, we do not accept that attraction as a given, or indicate that it is beyond their power to reject. The truth is that we are dealing with an objective disorder within the person. The parent should do everything possible to help the youth to move away from this particular attraction, and from the surroundings which encourage him to act out If pastors are going to advise parents concerning homosexuality, they should remind parents that their first obligation is to protect the child from immoral and dangerous behaviour

Dont let them NEAR the children FFS

Ambersky

But just saw this from Thursday, June 20, 2013, so its fairly recent. Im sure loads of people know about this but I seemed to have mised it and found out about it because I was looking up places where young LGBT people could be sent to in order to be cured. It used to happen, probably still does in some parts of the world.
I remember lots of fuss about Exodus, they were often held up as proof that homosexuality could be cured. I didnt know they shut down and so publicly and so apologetically.
Seems there is loads of good news today but it is sad to read of those mens stories in the links below. Here it is once again some of the most virulent anti gay material comes from those who are fighting it in themselves. I think many people may not be aware of these kinds of struggles around religion and whether you believe in any particular faith or not there are people for whom it means a great deal. Personally I put away my own beliefs and politics when I see someone in pain and basically its a pain of not belonging and of loss of community and meaning, those things are serious.

Exodus International, largest ex-gay ministry, shuts down, apologizes for causing gays pain
President Alan Chambers, who has struggled with same-sex attraction, says the organization has been ‘imprisoned’ in a worldview that is not truly biblical.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/exodus-international-closes-article-1.1378129

and this

Statement of Apology by Former Exodus Leaders
Michael Bussee

My name is Michael Bussee. I want to thank you for this opportunity to tell my story. Thirty years ago, I helped create EXODUS International. Today, I am here to apologize. Today, I am a licensed Marriage and Family therapist, a father, a born-again, evangelical Christian—and a proud gay man. But thirty years ago, I was not so proud. .............

I need to say that some had a positive, life-changing experience attending our Bible studies and support groups. They experienced God’s love and the welcoming fellowship of others who knew the struggle. There were some real “changes”—but not one of the hundreds of people we counseled became straight.

Instead, many of our clients began to fall apart – sinking deeper into patterns of guilt, anxiety and self-loathing. Why weren’t they “changing”? The answers from church leaders made the pain even worse: “You might not be a real Christian.” “You don’t have enough faith.” “You aren’t praying and reading the Bible enough.” “Maybe you have a demon.” The message always seemed to be: “You’re not enough. You’re not trying hard enough. You don’t have enough faith.”

Some simply dropped out and were never heard from again. I think they were the lucky ones. Others became very self-destructive. One young man got drunk and deliberately drove his car into a tree. Another (a fellow leader of the ex-gay movement) told me that he had left EXODUS and was now going to straight bars – looking for someone to beat him up. He said the beatings made him feel less guilty – atoning for his sin. One of my most dedicated clients, Mark, took a razor blade to his genitals, slashed himself repeatedly, and then poured drain-cleaner on the wounds—because after months of celibacy he had a “fall.”

In the midst of all of this, my own faith in the EXODUS movement was crumbling. No one was really becoming “ex-gay.” Who were we fooling? As one current EXODUS leader admitted, we were just “Christians with homosexual tendencies who would rather not have those tendencies.” By calling ourselves “ex-gay” we were lying to ourselves and to others. We were hurting people...........

http://www.beyondexgay.com/article/busseeapology

ewan whose army

Ambersky wrote: »

They have a Catholic Schools page ewan whos army so they are seeking to influence teens as well. They may not be inviting the teens to the meetings but they want to influence the adults in their lives.
http://couragerc.net/Catholic_Schools.html

The advice to parents of LGBT children in the article linked to on that page states

Dont let them NEAR the children FFS

Great we are like drug addicts are we now?

I may be wrong, but this sounds like its copied from some southern baptist thing from the US, I haven't heard a priest called a pastor before by Catholics.

L.Jenkins

I know this maybe a debate for a different forum, but if not Christianity then some of it's practitioners are seriously hurting the younger members of our society. Now I read through a few comment on the Journal, some quoting, "I disagree with what you say, but defend your right to say it" type sentiments. I believe in that, but not if it is aimed at directly or indirectly hurting others and instilling fear in young people who are coming.

As for Christianity or any Religion for that matter should have a minimum age for membership as it robs our Children of logical though and compassion in certain cases.

efb

http://m.rte.ie/news/touch/2013/1205/491018-nuig-legion-mary/

CdeC

Ambersky wrote: »

They have a Catholic Schools page ewan whos army so they are seeking to influence teens as well. They may not be inviting the teens to the meetings but they want to influence the adults in their lives.
http://couragerc.net/Catholic_Schools.html

This "wait and see" attitude is very dangerous. If someone is attracted to drugs or to alcohol, we do not accept that attraction as a given, or indicate that it is beyond their power to reject.

Ha this is laughable. So homosexuality is similar to drugs or alcohol.

when will they learn. do these people not have a shred of empathy or should we just move on and stop trying to explain ourselves.

1. Homoseuality (or any other type of sexuality) is not a choice or a phase
2. Shaming same sex behaviour in children is damaging and sometimes will leave them with a lifelong inability to establish healthy romantic relationships.
3. Doing this constitutes as abuse. Stop abusing these children. let them grow up to be who thety are and realise their potential without having to wade through the swamp of bigotry, shame and judgement before they can truly grow into an independent confident adult.


Basically STOP ABUSING (gay) CHILDREN!!!!!

L.Jenkins

CdeC wrote: »

Ha this is laughable. So homosexuality is similar to drugs or alcohol.

when will they learn. do these people not have a shred of empathy or should we just move on and stop trying to explain ourselves.

1. Homoseuality (or any other type of sexuality) is not a choice or a phase
2. Shaming same sex behaviour in children is damaging and sometimes will leave them with a lifelong inability to establish healthy romantic relationships.
3. Doing this constitutes as abuse. Stop abusing these children. let them grow up to be who thety are and realise their potential without having to wade through the swamp of bigotry, shame and judgement before they can truly grow into an independent confident adult.


Basically STOP ABUSING (gay) CHILDREN!!!!!

The problem is, indoctrination into Religion starts at a young age and is present right through school years. Not only is this harmful, but so are the ideologies and beliefs imposed on Children from an early age. It hurts to be told that self realisation of homosexuality makes you an abomination and does nothing to create a happy functioning adult later on in life.

You wouldn't feed a Child Alcohol and Drugs from a young age, why should parents be allowed to do the same with religion.

Ambersky

ewan whos army said
I may be wrong, but this sounds like its copied from some southern baptist thing from the US, I haven't heard a priest called a pastor before by Catholics.

There are several branches of the RC church or organisations within it that have similarities and links to Evangelical Churches such as Baptists.
The whole Born Again or Pentecostal Movement has a Catholic form in the Charismatic Renewal and there are prayer meetings all over the country.
The Legion of Mary is similar in that members usually practice spreading the gospel, sometimes door to door. They have a history of working with people who are socially deprived and often destitute when others have refused to work with them and social services neglected them or were non existant. In Dublin they have a history of working with prostitutes prisoners and homeless people. I would imagine they saw a link with their historical working with prostitutes and working with gay people misguided as that may be. They may also have been looking for examples of other Christian groups who have worked with homosexuals to save them from their/our lifestyle and come up with some of the material they linked to. The use of the word Pastor in the RC church you will come across in Catholic Schools where they say they are providing Pastoral Care and in the USA people sometimes refer to a Parish Priest as a Pastor.

This issue of praying away the gay is most painful for those who have been part of a church and for whom that matters a great deal in terms of community and in terms of providing a meaning to life.
Getting rid of religion altogether is another issue. It can be an issue for some people at a later stage when they question things further.
Being rejected by the church and community I was part of speed up my own questioning of Christianity. I found that because I knew one thing they were teaching was wrong i.e. that my love was not real, the whole pack of cards began to fall. Thats how it worked for me it can effect others differently.
Being rejected or thrown out of your church can be kind of like breaking up with someone you are in love with, you miss them, their family, the crowd you used to hang around with, where you saw your life headed, all you took for granted and you often feel abandoned, literally outcast. Much much later the person may be ready to hear others say s/he wasn't any good for you anyway, but not at the time and ultimately it is up to the individual to decide who to be in relationship with. Believe it or not for some people that is what it is like belonging to a church.
There are all kinds of things we may not agree with or not in total anyway, but you might also support another LGBT persons right to like that thing and take part in its activities.

FANTASTIC getting this into the news by the way. Again well done everyone.

Ten of Swords

The independent is running the story too. Some of the comments being left are not so positive

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/university-shuts-down-college-society-over-alleged-homophobic-leaflets-29812552.html

saidinmilamber

Ten of Swords wrote: »

The independent is running the story too. Some of the comments being left are not so positive

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/university-shuts-down-college-society-over-alleged-homophobic-leaflets-29812552.html

The comments section of the Indo is consistently worse than the comments in a Justin Bieber YouTube video's...

ewan whose army

saidinmilamber wrote: »

The comments section of the Indo is consistently worse than the comments in a Justin Bieber YouTube video's...

Typical behaviour, the minority thinks its the victim in all of this.

Pai Mei

Some of the comments are ridiculous they are obviously not seeing the bigger picture about what the society was actually saying. They were only looking at the poster thinking "well that's not that homophobic"

FouxDaFaFa

The comments are...interesting.

ewan whose army

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

The comments are...interesting.

Well what do you expect from the paper that has David Quinn as a columnist (Iona Institute)

eyescreamcone

Catholicism - you just have to laugh at the silliness of it all

ewan whose army

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Catholicism - you just have to laugh at the silliness of it all

ewan whose army

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

The comments are...interesting.

I personally love the new term "Cristophobia" great. What about LGBT Christians? I used to be one until I realised the whole thing stopped making sense but I still have respect for it.

Do Christophobes all freak out a Christmas?