Dog chewing shot birds. Hopeless?

Paddysniper

Hello.
I have a springer dog which is 2 years old. He is hunting cover very well and is obedient but I have a major problem.
When a bird is shot over him he goes to retrieve it,snatches it, runs for cover and chews it.
Is this curable or is it hopeless?
Any info is appreciated.

snipe02

has he always done this . when did it start . what were the factors involved the first time its happened ,, what were the factors involved the times he didn't are there other dogs present or have they been ,, your going to have look deeply at this and be very critical of yourself find out about other dogs on the line the rest of the litter etc..

its not unheard of for them to do this on occasion but not always no offence bar muzzle him if he is chewing every bird personally id ass him on as a pet and start again ive heard of lads curing it, if it might be an environmental factor causing it, it might be cured but if its bred into him then no way

TriggerPL

Everybody is thinking the same thing , but what I would consider is to a lad for foxing , with out seeing the dog first had its hard to suggest what to do .

It nearly the worste problem u can have

Paddysniper

This dog has very little birds seen due to lack of time.
His first bird shot for him was a pheasant last season, he took the bird in his mouth and brought it into cover but didn't do too much damage to him. There was another springer with us that day the same as today with the woodcock.
I'm putting it down to being kept in a kennel and run with another dog who is the dominant one. The dominant dog normally has a rubber toy in his mouth when I'm in there.

jap gt

Paddysniper wrote: »

This dog has very little birds seen due to lack of time.
His first bird shot for him was a pheasant last season, he took the bird in his mouth and brought it into cover but didn't do too much damage to him. There was another springer with us that day the same as today with the woodcock.
I'm putting it down to being kept in a kennel and run with another dog who is the dominant one. The dominant dog normally has a rubber toy in his mouth when I'm in there.

try him alone he could be jealous of the other dog and wants to keep the bird to himself

Paddysniper

jap gt wrote: »

try him alone he could be jealous of the other dog and wants to keep the bird to himself

Today he did grab the woodcock roughly but was making his way to me then I would have praised him big time and put the lead on him and give him time with the bird in his mouth under supervision. BUT the other bloody dog which was supposed to be restrained tore over to my dog and then my dog legged into cover where he chewed the bird.

jap gt

Paddysniper wrote: »

Today he did grab the woodcock roughly but was making his way to me then I would have praised him big time and put the lead on him and give him time with the bird in his mouth under supervision. BUT the other bloody dog which was supposed to be restrained tore over to my dog and then my dog legged into cover where he chewed the bird.

thats your problem i bet, he is jealous of other dogs taking his bird, work him for a few weeks on his own and see how he gets on

TriggerPL

jap gt wrote: »

thats your problem i bet, he is jealous of other dogs taking his bird, work him for a few weeks on his own and see how he gets on

I'm with jap ere try him on his own , and on a woodcock , there ment to be a sour tasting bird for a dog so he might not be as inclined to bite down it chew ,

U have ur work cut out for ya

Paddysniper

Yeah I'll see with him on his own and maybe since he hasn't had many birds I might be able to knock it out of him.

Thanks for the opinions.

223vmax

Paddysniper wrote: »

give him time with the bird in his mouth under supervision.

I would never do that. The dog will think the bird is his and not yours. Encourage the retrieve and take the bird off him straight away then massive praise. Get this solid at home before bringing him hunting around other dogs.

snipe02

Ignore the advice to be goin straight back to game start with a feather covered dummy with him on a lead then out of cover then gradually onto cold game then onto shot game back to step 1 not to step 3 and keep him on his own especially away from older dogs good luck with this one its goin to take time and your not gointo be shootin over him for a few weeks

Paddysniper

snipe02 wrote: »

Ignore the advice to be goin straight back to game start with a feather covered dummy with him on a lead then out of cover then gradually onto cold game then onto shot game back to step 1 not to step 3 and keep him on his own especially away from older dogs good luck with this one its goin to take time and your not gointo be shootin over him for a few weeks

I read before I posted on here that back to basics is needed. I know a lot of people wouldn't bother with all this work to get him right but it's worth a shot. Thing is with the dummies, how will I know if he's biting them as hard as he does the birds. Or if he's getting a more gentle mouth as I progress with him

snipe02

Paddysniper wrote: »

I read before I posted on here that back to basics is needed. I know a lot of people wouldn't bother with all this work to get him right but it's worth a shot. Thing is with the dummies, how will I know if he's biting them as hard as he does the birds. Or if he's getting a more gentle mouth as I progress with him

Clingfilm a layer or 2 might work just a thought but I wouldn't worry if he is biting hard it will puncture it could be nerves and lack of confidence he might bite the first 1 or 2 but should settle its worth it putting if nithing else you will learn a lot

Paddysniper

snipe02 wrote: »

Clingfilm a layer or 2 might work just a thought but I would worry if he is biting hard it will puncture it could be nerves and lack of confidence he might bite the first 1 or 2 but should settle its worth it putting if nithing else you will learn a lot

Good thinking. I'll give it a shot the first chance I get and keep ye posted.
Thanks again.

TriggerPL

Paddysniper wrote: »

I read before I posted on here that back to basics is needed. I know a lot of people wouldn't bother with all this work to get him right but it's worth a shot. Thing is with the dummies, how will I know if he's biting them as hard as he does the birds. Or if he's getting a more gentle mouth as I progress with him

There no need to ignor others advice , u know the dog is biting down on bird so eliminate the other problem the fact that the other dog is trying to take the bird .

Out of interest what you feed ur dog , is in nuts or do u shoot rabbits and stuff for him

snipe02

TriggerPL wrote: »

There no need to ignor others advice , u know the dog is biting down on bird so eliminate the other problem the fact that the other dog is trying to take the bird .

Out of interest what you feed ur dog , is in nuts or do u shoot rabbits and stuff for him

The only advice I said to ignore was to start back with game I said start with a feathered covered dummy would you disagree with this

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

The only advice I said to ignore was to start back with game I said start with a feathered covered dummy would you disagree with this

No bud not at all , but it not going to do any harm to try the dog on his own and see if it a competitive thing , do u not agree

snipe02

i do one of the first things i asked was , was there another dog present would be ridiculous to try retrain in the presence of another dog

TriggerPL

snipe02 wrote: »

i do one of the first things i asked was , was there another dog present would be ridiculous to try retrain in the presence of another dog

Well then were on the same page just different way of going about it , he could have a perfect dog , just one that will never be able to hunt with another dog one way to find out , if not back to basic .

snipe02

id be inclined to go back as precaution as not to reinforce the behavior by taking shortcuts maybe steps were skipped in the first place

Paddysniper

Thanks for the discussion lads.
I only feed my dogs nuts so it's not that they are used to eating game.
I'm taking all advice on board. I do think its worth one more try at a shot bird but with no other dogs around.

He was coming to me perfectly until the other bloody springer broke over to him and as I said he is still very green around retrieving birds. He has a lot of dummy work done so he knows the basics.

The more I look at his situation I'm seeing that he's always competing with other dogs be it in the kennel/run or the few times he has seen dropped birds.

He's used to other dogs being there to take things and run off on him which could be and hopefully is the reason why he is doing this.

kermitpwee

Ya its the competion that is causing him to do it, have seen dogs to do it before. Only problem is once they get the taste for chewing it can be close to impossible to get some dogs out of it. I have seen one dog that stopped once he was on his own but he was only allowed the one chew. Good luck

Paddysniper

kermitpwee wrote: »

Ya its the competion that is causing him to do it, have seen dogs to do it before. Only problem is once they get the taste for chewing it can be close to impossible to get some dogs out of it. I have seen one dog that stopped once he was on his own but he was only allowed the one chew. Good luck

The taste will be knocked out of him if he does it on his own. I'll try and eliminate certain causes and see what happens. Thanks.

TriggerPL

Paddysniper wrote: »

The taste will be knocked out of him if he does it on his own. I'll try and eliminate certain causes and see what happens. Thanks.

U need to put him in his own run as we'll eliminate any competition and do a bit of dummy work like snipe said for a few weeks try to re program him , then go for a bird ,

I know i said try a bird first but that's before u said that he has competition even when he's at home in his kennel

Paddysniper

TriggerPL wrote: »

U need to put him in his own run as we'll eliminate any competition and do a bit of dummy work like snipe said for a few weeks try to re program him , then go for a bird ,

I know i said try a bird first but that's before u said that he has competition even when he's at home in his kennel

Keeping gundogs in seperate kennels isn't normally needed?
I get what you're saying, he has to be brought right back to the beginning.

TriggerPL

Paddysniper wrote: »

Keeping gundogs in seperate kennels isn't normally needed?
I get what you're saying, he has to be brought right back to the beginning.

It happens more than not , stop competition for food , chew toy etc ,

jap gt

i have 3 dogs and they all have there own pen, no chance of them fighting for food etc
the pens are side by side

2 8x4
1 8x8

Paddysniper

jap gt wrote: »

i have 3 dogs and they all have there own pen, no chance of them fighting for food etc
the pens are side by side

2 8x4
1 8x8

Is your main reason for keeping them separate about fighting for food or has it something to do with the problem I have. That they'll get rough with game?

I have a 30' x 8' pen, could split it in the middle I suppose.

I had noticed with a few months that the dominant dog growls when eating causing the springer to stop eating and go into his bed. That's why I stood with them while they were eating then.

I guess it's all about being bullied and rushing to get something when the chance is there.

charlie10

TriggerPL wrote: »

It happens more than not , stop competition for food , chew toy etc ,

chew toy eek !

jap gt

Main reason is i have a dog and 2 bitches. Both bitches get on great together but springer would eat the setters food. So i split that pen in 2. Its easier to have different pens anyway i find for cleaning feeding etc

Paddysniper wrote: »

Is your main reason for keeping them separate about fighting for food or has it something to do with the problem I have. That they'll get rough with game?

I have a 30' x 8' pen, could split it in the middle I suppose.

I had noticed with a few months that the dominant dog growls when eating causing the springer to stop eating and go into his bed. That's why I stood with them while they were eating then.

I guess it's all about being bullied and rushing to get something when the chance is there.

TriggerPL

charlie10 wrote: »

chew toy eek !

I don't use chew toys Charlie mearly giving example of things dogs would compete for , not just hunting dogs .

TriggerPL

Paddysniper wrote: »

Is your main reason for keeping them separate about fighting for food or has it something to do with the problem I have. That they'll get rough with game?

I have a 30' x 8' pen, could split it in the middle I suppose.

I had noticed with a few months that the dominant dog growls when eating causing the springer to stop eating and go into his bed. That's why I stood with them while they were eating then.

I guess it's all about being bullied and rushing to get something when the chance is there.

You have hit the nail on the head rushing to grab food or what ever and out in the Feild he running away the min he gets a retrieve because he thinks the other do will take his prize .

Separate the pen is ur first job !!

Paddysniper

Well it all makes sense now. Bloody chew toy causing problems never crossed my mind.
The run I have for them is in need of repair anyway so nows the time to sort it.
Ideal size for a run for dog? Bigger the better?

jap gt

Paddysniper wrote: »

Well it all makes sense now. Bloody chew toy causing problems never crossed my mind.
The run I have for them is in need of repair anyway so nows the time to sort it.
Ideal size for a run for dog? Bigger the better?

To be honest once the dog gets plenty exercise the size of the pen doesnt matter. If you watch a dog they either in the house or like mine on top of it. As i say i have two 8x4 and i find it plenty big enough

Paddysniper

jap gt wrote: »

To be honest once the dog gets plenty exercise the size of the pen doesnt matter. If you watch a dog they either in the house or like mine on top of it. As i say i have two 8x4 and i find it plenty big enough

I have a walk in kennel so if I see one of my dogs on it they must have got at the red bull lol.