hotel took an imprint of my visa debit card...

therealgirl

...and charged me €50...

Paid for the room ages ago by credit card over the phone...they sent out a confirmation letter in the post, and it also said on it that they would need an imprint of a card upon check in, in case of any expenses incurred...

...checked in & gave them my visa card for imprint & she put the card into the payment reader thingy & I entered my pin....I just noticed the receipt says €50 was charged to the card...so checkedy bank a/c there
& sure enough there's €50 gone out of my a/c....

Anyone know what the reason for this.might be!? Reception closed right now so I can't ask them.. but am anxious as I had money in my a/c allocated for bills tomorrow...

Thanks

Thoie

Have they definitely taken the money, as opposed to putting a hold on it? Either way it's not much help for you for tomorrow - even if they issue a refund immediately it may not make it back into your account in time for a direct debit to come out tomorrow. If they've put a hold on the cash that can be more of a PITA, as I've never fathomed how the funds are released again - it seems to take an entirely random period of time (but again unlikely to be released in time for a DD tomorrow).

Unfortunately "an imprint in case of expenses" generally means the money is unavailable to you for a period of time, no matter what way they do it. Many hotels, even if you've prepaid, will put a decent sized hold on your card, so you need to factor that in when making bookings. One hotel I used visit regularly on business would put a £300 hold on my card every week - but only release it two weeks later

therealgirl

I wasn't aware that an 'imprint' of the card involved putting a hold on a certain amount of money, they forgot to mention that!
the bank statement shows €50 has come out of my visa card today (not used on anything else)...so are you saying the " hold money" is returned sometime after checkout if you don't incur any expenses?

kerry4sam

therealgirl wrote: »

...and charged me €50...

Paid for the room ages ago by credit card over the phone...they sent out a confirmation letter in the post, and it also said on it that they would need an imprint of a card upon check in, in case of any expenses incurred...

...checked in & gave them my visa card for imprint & she put the card into the payment reader thingy & I entered my pin....I just noticed the receipt says €50 was charged to the card...so checkedy bank a/c there
& sure enough there's €50 gone out of my a/c....

Anyone know what the reason for this.might be!? Reception closed right now so I can't ask them.. but am anxious as I had money in my a/c allocated for bills tomorrow...

Thanks

therealgirl wrote: »

I wasn't aware that an 'imprint' of the card involved putting a hold on a certain amount of money, they forgot to mention that!
the bank statement shows €50 has come out of my visa card today (not used on anything else)...so are you saying the " hold money" is returned sometime after checkout if you don't incur any expenses?

Hi there therealgirl,

This one sounds somewhat unusual. A directive was sent out indicating that the banks don't allow for imprints/pre-authorisation on any Visa Debit, only Credit Cards.
You said the receipt says 50euros: If you were handed a physical receipt it would say sale on it, and not preauth.

With regards to Pre-authorisations/Imprints: With a Credit Card they normally take approx 3-5 working days to clear; but a Visa Debit can take considerably longer, hence the directive not to allow such.

I don't see the funds going back into you account for tomorrow though, I am sorry.
~ When you speak with the hotel in the morning just ask them to do a reversal with the card to aid the speeding up of the process. They could also try charge & refund on the card if they say reversal not possible.

~ Your heading says imprint of Visa Debit - When you said the receipt says: was it a physical receipt with wording 'Sale' or just noted on your bank account (name of hotel & amount)?

When an imprint is taken, it puts a hold on your funds for the value you're informed about. That can only be released by the methods I mention above by the hotel. hence why it will show on your bank account until the hotel releases said funds back into it.

Hope that helps clear it up for you, & you might provide some more info on the receipt for me please.

Thanks,
kerry4sam

therealgirl

Hi Kerryforsam,

Thanks for that info...

I went to the desk this morning & asked them what the story is with the 'card imprint'...she said it was a hold of €50 in case of expenses incurred...I mentioned that the bank has an actual minus of €50 on my account & asked when I get it back & she said after check out when your a/c with the hotel is clear you get it back but it can take a varying amount of time as every bank is different with releasing the held funds...

So, I know now...but am annoyed they failed to mention the hold on funds & the amount, or what an imprint of a card was...and that it'll take however long to get it back! They said they couldn't reverse the charge as it wasn't a charge...which I don;t understand as it has definitely come out of my bank a/c (checked the a/c there now & it has not returned)

Thoie

therealgirl wrote: »

Hi Kerryforsam,

Thanks for that info...

I went to the desk this morning & asked them what the story is with the 'card imprint'...she said it was a hold of €50 in case of expenses incurred...I mentioned that the bank has an actual minus of €50 on my account & asked when I get it back & she said after check out when your a/c with the hotel is clear you get it back but it can take a varying amount of time as every bank is different with releasing the held funds...

So, I know now...but am annoyed they failed to mention the hold on funds & the amount, or what an imprint of a card was...and that it'll take however long to get it back! They said they couldn't reverse the charge as it wasn't a charge...which I don;t understand as it has definitely come out of my bank a/c (checked the a/c there now & it has not returned)

Does your card receipt say "SALE" or "PRE-AUTH" on it? If it says "SALE" then they've actually taken the money, and you need to show it to them and point out it's not a pre-auth (or hold).

TheBoffin

It is very unusual to see an amount actually charged to a card for pre-auth. The correct procedure is process the card for whatever the holding amount is in sanction or pending, this means that the transaction is held for a period of time but not actually processed in a batch. Most places that do this have a separate merchant account which batches jobs every week instead of every night. The effect is still the same, you are without the use of the held funds, but it is not actually charged to your card statement. If the amount is to be returned to you then it is voided at the merchant side instead of refunded. Amazed that a business would charge an amount as it costs money to refund while it costs nothing to void.

As for the imprint, not a chance would I allow ANYONE keep an imprint of my card, I would sooner take my business elsewhere.

The full card number is shown on the merchant terminal receipt anyway so theres no need to imprint if done properly.

lasair

therealgirl wrote: »

...and charged me €50...

Paid for the room ages ago by credit card over the phone...they sent out a confirmation letter in the post, and it also said on it that they would need an imprint of a card upon check in, in case of any expenses incurred...

...checked in & gave them my visa card for imprint & she put the card into the payment reader thingy & I entered my pin....I just noticed the receipt says €50 was charged to the card...so checkedy bank a/c there
& sure enough there's €50 gone out of my a/c....

Anyone know what the reason for this.might be!? Reception closed right now so I can't ask them.. but am anxious as I had money in my a/c allocated for bills tomorrow...

Thanks

As a hotel manager I hate to tell you but that money is in banking limbo for up to ten working days! The hotel may tell you there is nothing they can do but in different circumstances they can have it released it just takes a lot of hassle.

It is a standard rule in any hotel NOT to take a pre-authorization on visa debits and or laser cards as it looks as if the money is debited. This is a major pet hate with me!!

My advice is call the hotel, they should have your pre-auth slip attached to your reg card and get them to call the bank! They have the pre-auth no to release it. Do not allow them to charge it and refund it as it takes the same as a release to appear in your acc.

Gatica

lasair wrote: »

It is a standard rule in any hotel NOT to take a pre-authorization on visa debits and or laser cards as it looks as if the money is debited. This is a major pet hate with me!!

I don't know about policy but I always thought that pre-authorisations are only done on Credit Cards - for the reasons mentioned, i.e. they can hold an amount of money on your card that you won't be able to spend but it's not actually charged to the card and won't show up on any statement unless actually charged by end of your stay.
I guess if hotels do accept Debit Cards for pre-authorisation it may work a little different as I don't think an agent can normally withdraw/charge money to an account that does not have money in it (am I right?), so they may need to be able to "check" that there's money there at check-in time by actually doing a sort-of charge (what lasair said)... and then cancelling it when you check-out.
In any case, as others have said, you cannot use that amount of money on your account while it's being held. The hotel should've been cleared about that, but I guess they think that by now most people know that pre-authorisation/hold on money is normal procedure at check-in.

killbillvol2

Gatica wrote: »

I don't know about policy but I always thought that pre-authorisations are only done on Credit Cards - for the reasons mentioned, i.e. they can hold an amount of money on your card that you won't be able to spend but it's not actually charged to the card and won't show up on any statement unless actually charged by end of your stay.
I guess if hotels do accept Debit Cards for pre-authorisation it may work a little different as I don't think an agent can normally withdraw/charge money to an account that does not have money in it (am I right?), so they may need to be able to "check" that there's money there at check-in time by actually doing a sort-of charge (what lasair said)... and then cancelling it when you check-out.
In any case, as others have said, you cannot use that amount of money on your account while it's being held. The hotel should've been cleared about that, but I guess they think that by now most people know that pre-authorisation/hold on money is normal procedure at check-in.

That's it in a nutshell. So they didn't see the need to mention it.

ProudDUB

Pretty much every hotel that I have ever stayed in has a sign near, on or behind the reception desk outlining the hotels debit card policy. Hotels are required to do so in many countries. Is it possible the OP's hotel had one too, but the OP didn't see it? Hotels doing holds on funds for a guest checking in with a debit card, is standard procedure now. A lot of hotels treat it the way that shops do their returns policy. It's up to you to educate yourself on what it is, they aren't going to go out of their way to tell you. It kinda sucks, but there ya go.

OP, hotels are are more strict about doing holds on debit cards, than they are credit cards. With a credit card, they can always bill the credit card company if you run up a big unpaid bill. Then the credit card company comes after you. So as long as they have the card number on file, that's often enough for the hotel. But with a debit card, it's all about the money that you have in your bank account at that time. If you run up additional charges on your bill, but you have nothing in your bank account, they have no come back against you. If they've put a hold on some of your money when you checked in, they do.

therealgirl

ProudDUB wrote: »

Pretty much every hotel that I have ever stayed in has a sign near, on or behind the reception desk outlining the hotels debit card policy. Hotels are required to do so in many countries. Is it possible the OP's hotel had one too, but the OP didn't see it? Hotels doing holds on funds for a guest checking in with a debit card, is standard procedure now. A lot of hotels treat it the way that shops do their returns policy. It's up to you to educate yourself on what it is, they aren't going to go out of their way to tell you. It kinda sucks, but there ya go.

OP, hotels are are more strict about doing holds on debit cards, than they are credit cards. With a credit card, they can always bill the credit card company if you run up a big unpaid bill. Then the credit card company comes after you. So as long as they have the card number on file, that's often enough for the hotel. But with a debit card, it's all about the money that you have in your bank account at that time. If you run up additional charges on your bill, but you have nothing in your bank account, they have no come back against you. If they've put a hold on some of your money when you checked in, they do.

I didn't think the money would be physically debited from my account and take so long to get back though...and they had the credit card details on file anyway... from nearly four weeks ago when I booked and paid for the room by phone...they said they needed an imprint of the card though at check in....they could have easily used the details I gave of the credit card to put a hold on money at any stage, even at check in...but I told them (weeks ago) that I wouldn't have the credit card with me on check in (my husband uses it too)...and she said that they need some sort of physical card on the day to take an imprint of....they still insist no money was taken out of my bank a/c...but my statement shows a debit card payment of €50...just like any other debit payment would

...all very confusing, but I guess 'educating myself' would have been a far easier option...even though I have checked in at numerous hotels throughout this country & Europe & have never needed an imprint of any card or funds to be held.

There was nothing in reception to say anything about card imprints/pre-auth/holding of funds....I checked the next morning when I went to ask what the €50 that was minused from my a/c was for

keithclancy

Debit cards have this problem
E.G. Go to rent a car, they will take a deposit for the fuel and the excess (normally between 800 and 1200 euros)

Also its not possible to take an 'imprint' as Debit cards have no raised lettering.

therealgirl

keithclancy wrote: »

Debit cards have this problem
E.G. Go to rent a car, they will take a deposit for the fuel and the excess (normally between 800 and 1200 euros)

Also its not possible to take an 'imprint' as Debit cards have no raised lettering.

I thought it would be an actual 'imprint' too...but she just put it in the terminal and asked for me to enter my pin...like you would in a shop to pay for something

...my visa debit does have my name, a/c number, exp date etc in raised lettering though

Gatica

as does mine.

I don't know why they use the term imprint, as it does sound misleading.

Thoie

It's a hangover from the days when credit cards would be clunk clunked through a machine with triplicate carbon sheets. The imprint would be kept at reception until checkout.

OP, you still haven't said if the receipt says SALE or PREAUTH

kerry4sam

Do not hesitate in asking questions. Some people check into locations and want everything to run smoothly; when something happens they are unsure or uncomfortable about; they just leave it linger and don't ask questions.

Always, Everyone, If unsure or uncomfortable about anything, Always ask a question to put your mind at ease.

For instance, someone asks you for your pin number; you are unsure as to why but proceed willingly. I am sure they would have explained everything if a question or two were asked on c/in, or even in the quiet sometime throughout your stay with a member of staff - management or front-desk team! I am certain they would only be happy to oblige you.

Do NOT hesitate in asking questions: if someone asks you for anything personal eg: own details; pin number; passport details. Always ask for the reason if you're unsure and for how long details will be kept/stored either on paper or on a computer, as far as they would be aware.

Don't just supply information if you are unsure or uncomfortable, just ask a few questions for clarity and your own peace of mind

Thanks,
kerry4sam

therealgirl

Thoie wrote: »

It's a hangover from the days when credit cards would be clunk clunked through a machine with triplicate carbon sheets. The imprint would be kept at reception until checkout.

OP, you still haven't said if the receipt says SALE or PREAUTH

Apologies, it said 'sale' on the receipt

Thoie

therealgirl wrote: »

Apologies, it said 'sale' on the receipt

In that case they've actually taken €50 - did they run a refund when you were checking out?

ProudDUB

therealgirl wrote: »

I didn't think the money would be physically debited from my account and take so long to get back though...and they had the credit card details on file anyway... from nearly four weeks ago when I booked and paid for the room by phone...they said they needed an imprint of the card though at check in....they could have easily used the details I gave of the credit card to put a hold on money at any stage, even at check in...but I told them (weeks ago) that I wouldn't have the credit card with me on check in (my husband uses it too)...and she said that they need some sort of physical card on the day to take an imprint of....they still insist no money was taken out of my bank a/c...but my statement shows a debit card payment of €50...just like any other debit payment would

...all very confusing, but I guess 'educating myself' would have been a far easier option...even though I have checked in at numerous hotels throughout this country & Europe & have never needed an imprint of any card or funds to be held.

There was nothing in reception to say anything about card imprints/pre-auth/holding of funds....I checked the next morning when I went to ask what the €50 that was minused from my a/c was for

The staff at reception can not just pull up details of the the card that you used when you made the original booking. Even though your gave it to them when you made the booking, odds are your card details would have been encrypted by whatever payment system the person who took your booking used. Once he/she entered it into their system, it would not have been available for anyone to see or pull up again. This is to protect the security of your card.

The staff at reception desks generally only have access to the last 4 numbers of guests cards & nothing more. Even if they were able to access the card number, it may be over it's spending limit, or it may have expired by the time you checked in. So it would be of no use to them to protect themselves against any big bills you rack up. That is why they ask people to present an active, valid card when they check in. Whether you use the one you used to make the booking or a new one is up to you.

As others have said, the term "imprint" refers to the days when merchants used a machine to swipe an imprint of the card. Those imprints were then sent off to the credit card company for processing. That no longer happens as merchants have electronic connections to banks and credit card companies & they get their mitts on your money that way. They really do need to change their terminology imo, as it is very misleading.

If the hotel are returning funds to you (either those that were on hold, or as a straight refund,) the hotel does not have any control over how long it takes. Once they submit the request to the bank that issued your card, it is out of their hands. Banks generally take several business days to process those transactions. There is no fixed time frame for how long they take. They do not take place instantly. They really should in this day and age, but they do not.

Funds that are on hold, are not available to you to use. So if you pull up your available balance, it will be minus those funds. So your statement would have been correct, in that it showed you the funds that were available to you at that time. Whether they call it a "purchase" that will be refunded to you later, or a "hold" that will be released later, it's just a matter of semantics really.

DanWall

I worry about the security part of all this, I booked a hotel a couple of months ago to stay July next, they have my credit card details on file so they can charge the full amount in May, this is the precise reason the Revenue would not take credit card details as a delayed payment. I cannot understand why the credit card companies allow these practices especially since the hacking scandal, it's the CC company that cover any fraud.

therealgirl

Thoie wrote: »

In that case they've actually taken €50 - did they run a refund when you were checking out?

I asked for this upon check out and they said they hadn't actually taken the funds so they couldn't do a refund...it would be up to whatever bank I am with to release the hold, time varies with each bank

Gatica

that's annoying. I wonder how long it takes for release on a credit card.

Thankfully with credit cards at least you can just not use it to incur payments sometime down the line, unfortunately with Laser it's your actual real money in your account that you cannot use.
Argh... Not a fan of the new Debit cards myself. They incur more annual charges from the banks now than the previous Laser cards and also carry more risk that Credit cards.

therealgirl

Gatica wrote: »

that's annoying. I wonder how long it takes for release on a credit card.

Thankfully with credit cards at least you can just not use it to incur payments sometime down the line, unfortunately with Laser it's your actual real money in your account that you cannot use.
Argh... Not a fan of the new Debit cards myself. They incur more annual charges from the banks now than the previous Laser cards and also carry more risk that Credit cards.

I agree, the changes to the charges on having a debit card are shocking...there's not many other options though as far as I am aware (but I'm not up there on my banking knowledge!) I never walk into a bank, rarely use an atm & rarely have cash on me...although I would have offered the hotel €50+ cash as a deposit on the room/expenses incurred if I had been better informed...I don;t know if they would have accepted this, but it would have been a far easier option to get it refunded when I check out

zagmund

You have been told a porkie by the hotel. If the receipt says "sale" then that's exactly what it was. It looks like a sale on the receipt, it looks like a sale on your statement - it is a sale. No amount of makey-uppey words from the hotel or anyone else is going to change that.

They were dishonest to tell you otherwise.

As referenced above the "imprint" term is a throw back to life in simpler times when they would run your card through the yoke that imprinted your card number onto a form using carbon paper. The idea was that if everything went to plan and there was no charge to be made then they simply tore up the form. If you did incur a charge then they would submit the form to the bank along with all their other credit card slips and they would get their money.

In todays world this doesn't have an exact equivalent - once your card is swiped in a terminal there are only so many options available - charge (normal sale), hold, refund and possibly one or two others I'm not aware of. If it's a hold then for it to have any value they have to communicate with the bank, determine you have money available and place the hold - at this point the bank knows it's a hold and not a sale and it won't appear on your statement. If it's a sale then just like if you walked into Tesco and bought a litre of milk - it would appear on your statement.

Depending on your level of anger you could try making a complaint to your credit card issuer - if the hotel actually is charging people when they claim to be putting a hold on then this is a problem.

z

keithclancy

therealgirl wrote: »

I thought it would be an actual 'imprint' too...but she just put it in the terminal and asked for me to enter my pin...like you would in a shop to pay for something

...my visa debit does have my name, a/c number, exp date etc in raised lettering though

Strange. Never seen a Debit card with that, they usually have "Electronic Use Only" written on them.

Thoie

keithclancy wrote: »

Strange. Never seen a Debit card with that, they usually have "Electronic Use Only" written on them.

My visa debit is like that too, as was my Laser card. I've only seen the flat ones on the continent.

keithclancy

Thoie wrote: »

My visa debit is like that too, as was my Laser card. I've only seen the flat ones on the continent.

That would explain it then