Landlords gas safety certificate.

Billy Bunting

Where do i go ?

My Son lives in Dublin, never been to his latest Apartment situated on Mountjoy Sq.

Recently my Son has been complaining of weakness in his legs in the morning, we put it down to shin splints as he's a bit of a keep kit fanatic.
He has also recently complained of no heat in the apartment, his mum told me is was Electric so i told her that he needs to get a sparks in. On Wednesday i got chatting with him myself and he explained that it was actually a Gas back boiler and the Landlords "handyman" had looked at it, gone away and didnt come back and the Landlord was giving the brush off, he didn't have a name for the boiler, i told him to send me a few pictures and i would try to help..........


As soon as i saw the pictures i was on the phone to the management company explaining that the boiler was lethal and needed an RGI to service it and that they need a Gas Safety Cert for the apartment, they straight away refused to talk to me and advised me to get my Son to contact them.
Yesterday my Son advised me the "handyman" came back and got it going.

You've seen the picture, nothing has changed on the boiler, what would you do ?

Thoie

First off I'd probably buy him a carbon monoxide alarm (http://www.woodiesdiy.com/action/searchsite/carbon%20monoxide).

Then have him register a complaint if he thinks the work carried out was illegal:
http://www.rgii.ie/help/report-illegal-gas-work.5882.html

You could always give them a ring as well -it's not clear from a quick glance at their site if they have any powers over people who aren't registered.

Billy Bunting

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Where do i go ?

My Son lives in Dublin, never been to his latest Apartment situated on Mountjoy Sq.

Recently my Son has been complaining of weakness in his legs in the morning, we put it down to shin splints as he's a bit of a keep kit fanatic.
He has also recently complained of no heat in the apartment, his mum told me is was Electric so i told her that he needs to get a sparks in. On Wednesday i got chatting with him myself and he explained that it was actually a Gas back boiler and the Landlords "handyman" had looked at it, gone away and didnt come back and the Landlord was giving the brush off, he didn't have a name for the boiler, i told him to send me a few pictures and i would try to help..........


As soon as i saw the pictures i was on the phone to the management company explaining that the boiler was lethal and needed an RGI to service it and that they need a Gas Safety Cert for the apartment, they straight away refused to talk to me and advised me to get my Son to contact them.
Yesterday my Son advised me the "handyman" came back and got it going.

You've seen the picture, nothing has changed on the boiler, what would you do ?

I'll have a look at it Monday for you.

Billy Bunting

Pm'ed you Gary.

I still wish to get it across to these so called management peep/Landlords that Gas safety is their responsibility and their duty.

shane0007

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Pm'ed you Gary.

I still wish to get it across to these so called management peep/Landlords that Gas safety is their responsibility and their duty.

I would document it in writing to the management company & cc'd to the landlord registered post. This would include photos, report from Gary & cert. I would also insist that you wish to see the certificate for the "handyman's" work.
I would also insist on seeing the handyman's RGII identification card. Not just his RGII number as that could be anybody's.
I would then report the whole instance to RGII.

The downside is it may create some ill feelings between your son & the management company but what feelings would be there if you were not an RGI & able to recognise the dangers & something more disastrous happened? How many other apartments are in this state?
The handyman may well be a RGI but we all know how good they can be.

If the system we have worked a tenant wouldn't be fearful of losing their home over safety issues, if the system worked landlords would insure the safety of their tenants(giving a level playing field for good landlords that already do), if the system worked a Rgi?/handyman wouldn't leave a gas appliance so obviously dangerious.

I'll leave it to others to point the finger of blame to those who are responsible for designing a unsafe system that puts people at risk:mad:


The answer is simple, introduce landlord certificates that must prove that gas or oil appliances meet a basic safety standard putting ownership of safety squarely on the landlords shoulders.

Working in London i was sadly called to deaths due to gas appliances or I would receive reports of deaths and how they occurred, deaths from gas appliances in rented accommodation were greatly reduced at the introduction of a landlords gas safety certificate that is now mandatory across the UK, I see no reason why a proven scheme like this cannot be introduced here other than nobody cares, sadly.

Badly maintained appliances can kill.

Billy Bunting

gary71 wrote: »

The answer is simple, introduce landlord certificates that must prove that gas or oil appliances meet a basic safety standard putting ownership of safety squarely on the landlords shoulders.

It is the law here Gary, just as everything here no enforcement and the statute is written in a way that it is as clear as is813.

http://www.rgii.ie/safety/renting-tenants-landlords.2710.html

Billy Bunting

Billy Bunting wrote: »

It is the law here Gary, just as everything here no enforcement and the statute is written in a way that it is as clear as is813.

http://www.rgii.ie/safety/renting-tenants-landlords.2710.html

When UK landlord certs were introduced it was made very clear that yearly safety checks were required and who was responsible, there is a specific yearly safety cert that's required or you can't rent your property full stop.

I'v not heard of landlord certs here and I think it's something that comes to light after the fact, it's not a problem till it's a problem.

Here's a link to show the different approach check out the word "must" which is very powerful in a regulation format.

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/advice/renting_a_property/for_landlords.aspx

DGOBS

That's shameful Billy, make sure he gets checked out too by the doctor asap.
And if the doctor has it, have a dreager test and bloods done, you can include a copy of the results to the management company.
Report the illegal works, for sure!

wing52

There looks to be a awful amount of dust/crap around the ignitor/oxypilot:eek:

Don't be afraid to get you're own rgi to service that,but it's understandable

If it's the landllord's buisness.

camel jockey

Can someone clarify what involvement the Management Company would have here? I don't see that they would have any. Or does the OP mean Management Agent?

Billy Bunting

camel jockey wrote: »

Can someone clarify what involvement the Management Company would have here? I don't see that they would have any. Or does the OP mean Management Agent?

Agent or Company i don't see a difference, Westcourt Management Services are the company/agent that my son has been attempting to deal with, they are the company i spoke with and have emailed without response, refused to discus the matter after i, a RGI, advised them of the danger, refused to give me the details of the Landlord so i could contact them directly, and who have apparently failed to maintain the gas appliance in a safe manner and service it in accordance with Manufacturers instructions.
According to their website they "manage" over 200 apartments around Dublin, hopefully they don't all have gas boilers. My son and his flat mates have been without heat for weeks, they then have a handyman turn up and "get it going" yet they are in fear of using it because of its condition. For a company that advertises itself with lines like " Let us know how we can help!" if i could chat with them i would suggest they look closely at their communication skills.
Because of their poor communication skills and apparent detachment from the issue it has been left to my son/me to make arrangements to get this looked at by a Professional before someone is killed. It's time the Landlords/Agents realised they are responsible for the lives of their tenants when it comes to gas appliances in their properties.

shane0007

TBH, I would hang them out to dry & the landlord. They have legal responsibilities as does the "handyman" & by law a gas cert should have been issued as it was left in a "safe state to use".
I take it your son was not issued with a Cert 3 so I would begin there & the rest will follow.

shane0007

Also it will be interesting to see how many Notices of Hazards will be issued when Gary gets to see it. At least then RGII will be contacting them or if the installation cannot be left safe & has to be capped & isolated. I wonder how fast their reaction will be then.

Billy Bunting

shane0007 wrote: »

Also it will be interesting to see how many Notices of Hazards will be issued when Gary gets to see it. .

Well my Hero has been and left no NOH and all is up and running. :P

The fire had soot deposit all over it and was in a bad state, the boiler was very dirty hard to get the brushs in and the lint retainer was blocked and out of position blah blah blah....

So long story short the appliances were brutal but fine after a bit of love.


As for NOH if I could leave one for pop music than that would be a different matter.

Billy Bunting

gary71 wrote: »

As for NOH if I could leave one for pop music than that would be a different matter.

Pop music! It was Dub Step :rolleyes:

And i'm sure the aroma was a reminder of your youth

PMed you.

Boards.ie: Niamh

WMS Agents have asked to use their right to reply here so this is their official response:

Hi Billy Bunting,
The short answer to your questions are that the landlord is ultimately responsible for his apartment and the agent is answerable to him. If a tenant takes a case to the PRTB, it is against a landlord and it is up to the landlord to subsequently pursue their management agent if necessary.

In this case, management agent refers to the landlord's representative.

Obviously if a tenant suspects something is wrong with a gas boiler the first thing to do is report it to the landlord (or their agent if one has been appointed). If you're unsatisfied with the response you can start a PRTB case where you will need to prove the landlord did not comply with his legal obligations.

Unfortunately the PRTB is disgracefully slow so in a case like this where, if I wasn't satisfied with the landlord's response, I would consider doing as Billy Bunting did and hire someone directly to fix the problem and then attempt to chase the landlord for the cost through PRTB or otherwise. The risk with this is if the appliance is found to be working, you end up with the cost yourself.

When I read Billy Buntings report of events I wanted to investigate the matter.

To clarify the situation, we were not appointed management agent for this property, we were only asked by the landlord to rent the apartment and then relay any messages from the tenant. The landlord was responsible for ordering the maintenance and presenting certs etc. As agent we can only act on the landlord's advice. We do have emails to the landlord on 28th and 29th of Nov forwarding your email to us.

The issue began with the tenants reporting the heating not working. The landlord's electrician (not handyman) visited twice between 16th and 29th Nov to show them how to switch it on. He reported the heating system as working both times. We had no reason at the time to request the RGI cert from the landlord.

In the landlord's defence he did arrange an inspector to visit after your email. I don't know when he last had his boiler inspected but this time the inspector (RGI 1745) reported visiting 3 times where the tenants were either not there to meet him or, according to the inspector, turned him away.

Hope this helps.
I can be contacted on Colm@wmsltd.ie or (01) 677 9696