Golf Club Subs

Hacker111

Home Course is struggling for a few new members... small bit of negative leakage year on year..... existing sub is c. €1k p.a. ...... club is 50 mins from Dublin Centre..... good course/playing membership etc.....

I'm curious if a drop in sub to €700 p.a. for 1 year as special discount for new members might work.... maybe a €200 levy reduction for any existing member that refers newbie to club as well..... reasonable local catchment area to choose from....

Once the member is hooked they pay full sub in year 2 and you have captured new members in a competitive market price

Views please!!

Dr_Colossus

Hacker111 wrote: »

Home Course is struggling for a few new members... small bit of negative leakage year on year..... existing sub is c. €1k p.a. ...... club is 50 mins from Dublin Centre..... good course/playing membership etc.....

I'm curious if a drop in sub to €700 p.a. for 1 year as special discount for new members might work.... maybe a €200 levy reduction for any existing member that refers newbie to club as well..... reasonable local catchment area to choose from....

Once the member is hooked they pay full sub in year 2 and you have captured new members in a competitive market price

Views please!!

Would help if you gave the name of your home club, 50 mins from Dublin city centre could be anywhere from south Wicklow to Monaghan. Every club is starting to struggle to attract and maintain members and at the end of the day money talks so any improvement in the perceived value for money membership subs entail should increase demand.
Most posts in this forum refer to clubs in vague round about ways, why not just come out and name it.

PARlance

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Would help if you gave the name of your home club, 50 mins from Dublin city centre could be anywhere from south Wicklow to Monaghan. Every club is starting to struggle to attract and maintain members and at the end of the day money talks so any improvement in the perceived value for money membership subs entail should increase demand.
Most posts in this forum refer to clubs in vague round about ways, why not just come out and name it.

I don't know if it's a good idea to be asking posters to be naming clubs that are struggling.
Before you know it there could be posters coming on saying: I'm a member of X Club and we're really struggling when there's no way to prove there are 1. A member or 2. X club is struggling.

Could start undue panic within clubs and really effect their ability to attract new members.

Any golfer wishing to join a club should be asking for financial information directly from the club itself if they have concerns IMO.

SnowDrifts

PARlance wrote: »

I don't know if it's a good idea to be asking posters to be naming clubs that are struggling.

Agree with this and anyway, the name of the club isn't needed to answer the question.

I think it would be a good idea to let the club to go this route. The worst thing to do is to raise subs.... this leads to more members leaving as a result of being unable to pay or else joining a neighboring club who have brought down their own subs.

Lowering subs = attract new members and retain old members = more cash.
Raising subs = detracts new members and some old members leave = less cash.

PARlance

I think there's a very fine line in getting the right balance.
First off, a "1 year introductory offer" isnt going to solve the problem if it's a big one IMO. OP mentions getting people hooked. This may work, but I think a lot that come for the offer will go somewhere else for the next offer the following year. I guess the offer is probably the best course of action if the club doesn't need a dramatic change in income. Ie you might get a slightly higher number of members staying for year 2 than you have existing members leaving.

Dropping the overall fee is a real big decision for a club.
I can see why clubs struggle, or are slow, to reduce their fees. It's a massive gamble.
Say a club has 300 members currently paying 1,000 (€300,000) but is struggling and needs another €100,000 p.a to survive.
They are losing members at the current rate, so they have an option is to drop the fee.
Let's say €750 is agreed as the new fee.
To maintain their current income of €300,000, they would need 400 members in total... That's a big jump in members and that just leaves them where they started.
They would need to get the membership to 533 members to hit €400,000.

It's all simple maths but I don't think people focus on the effect, of what seems like a modest reduction in the annual fee, has on the required levels of membership.

For clubs to survive they need to be in the position to plan ahead. It's too late dropping the fee when they are in trouble as membership levels aren't going to jump overnight (the price reduction does unfortunately).

I think a club, in the example above, would need a 2-3 years cushion to make it work. They will probably increase their loses in the short term vs. leaving the fee alone. They would lose more money in year 1 and 2 and then hopefully break even and better in year 3.
Having the foresight and the finances to do this is another thing.

Hacker111

PARlance wrote: »

I think there's a very fine line in getting the right balance.
First off, a "1 year introductory offer" isnt going to solve the problem if it's a big one IMO.

Agreed, it is one part of an overall package of measures - not just a lone magic bullet. "Bums on seats" is critical here. If a busy, competitive, well presented club can attract 40 new members in a year at the discounted level I seriously doubt more than 10/20% of thee punters would leave if the price increases by €300... an increase they are aware of when they sign up initially.

It is all about turnover and rather than stay stagnant with c. 10 new members at existing rates the club ramps up on the marketing (and new rate) to try and boost numbers. The club wont die from a lack of new members it just needs more to assist cash flow and to fill the 20% capacity that it has.


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Sandwlch

Most clubs in Ireland are kidding themselves with all of these schemes on intro memberships etc. A single full member sub works fine. The reality is that clubs need to reduce subs and reduce expenditure (with ensuing reduction in the standard of the facility they can afford). There is still a reluctance to accept this. So they are deluding themselves that they are not doing so by having some low subs and retaining a higher headline full sub. This is only promoting membership itinerantism, where people are moving every year to the latest intro or promotional offer at the cost of the stable member. It is just smoke an mirrors and the bottom line over the last 5 years is fewer golfers able to afford fewer subs and fewer courses sustained by credit bubble investments and tourism industry developments.
So keep it equitable for all, lower the main full sub, cut your spending and let the weak clubs die off - there are too many anyway. The closing of the likes of Navan is good for golf in Ireland overall.

PARlance

Hacker111 wrote: »

Agreed, it is one part of an overall package of measures - not just a lone magic bullet. "Bums on seats" is critical here. If a busy, competitive, well presented club can attract 40 new members in a year at the discounted level I seriously doubt more than 10/20% of thee punters would leave if the price increases by €300... an increase they are aware of when they sign up initially.

It is all about turnover and rather than stay stagnant with c. 10 new members at existing rates the club ramps up on the marketing (and new rate) to try and boost numbers. The club wont die from a lack of new members it just needs more to assist cash flow and to fill the 20% capacity that it has.

The introductory offer is great as long as other clubs don't follow suit. And that's the main problem I see with it. Clubs will come out with similar offers that negate it. Back to square one again.
It's actually worse than square one IMO. It would create a culture of churners who hop from one club to another benefitting from these offers.
A club could hold onto the "introductory discount" and apply it as a credit in year 2 or 3 (to encourage people to stay) as a way around that.
But I don't know how effective that would be in this day and age, it's day to day savings most people are after.

If I was running a club (I don't envy those that are) I would certainly give it a shot.
It is all about bums on seats.... While holding onto the cliff edge with your fingers.

golfwallah

50 minutes from Dublin City Centre could be within 15 – 20 kms or more than twice that distance, depending on traffic, time of day, etc. So, saying it’s 50 minutes away could be a tad optimistic or “marketing speak”. I would think that the nearer Dublin and big centres of population you are, the easier it will be to come up with workable solutions.

Personally, in my own club I’d prefer to see a reduction in the full membership rate for all. But reductions for all or for just new members is not something that can be easily carried at an AGM. I also agree with the previous poster about clubs deluding themselves.

Probably the best thing is to empower the committee to do what it takes to bring in new members .... again not easy to have carried at a AGM, as this presupposes:
• Members understand the problem (as opposed to being fed propaganda that the finances are fine), so it doesn’t come as a shock at the AGM
• Committee members have the necessary skill sets and are prepared to take the time to develop and implement a marketing / strategic plan covering the next 3 – 5 years.

The reality is that there has been too much capacity and falling demand in the market for the past few years, which can only result in lower prices plus a certain number of clubs going under, at least until the economic situation stabilizes.

If you manage prices and costs so as to minimise member attrition, it could give you the breathing space to survive the storm. There are no magic bullets – a GUI / PGA / ILGU booklet on “Promoting Golf Club Membership” (easily found on Google) may be helpful in pointing out some of the issues and possible solutions. Good luck!!

GreeBo

you can't just reduce subs unless you have a plan to reduce your expenses by the same amount, assuming no new members, otherwise you are just making your problems worse.
I think any club that thinks it can get 40 new members is kidding itself tbh.

I would guess a lot of people on here have no idea how much it takes to run a quality Dublin club for a year.

Hacker111

PARlance wrote: »

The introductory offer is great as long as other clubs don't follow suit. And that's the main problem I see with it. Clubs will come out with similar offers that negate it. Back to square one again.
It's actually worse than square one IMO. It would create a culture of churners who hop from one club to another benefitting from these offers.
A club could hold onto the "introductory discount" and apply it as a credit in year 2 or 3 (to encourage people to stay) as a way around that.
But I don't know how effective that would be in this day and age, it's day to day savings most people are after.

If I was running a club (I don't envy those that are) I would certainly give it a shot.
It is all about bums on seats.... While holding onto the cliff edge with your fingers.

no risk for local competitors dropping anywhere near the proposed level. so we are safe with regard to your point, thankfully.

Other posts:

Costs are being cut, to the bone. Working both sides of the book. Costs will get lower and stay low, while revenues will get a nice boost over a 3 year period. Even 20 new members for 12 months would be an acceptable result, however, 30-40 would be perfect. This is based on our knowledge of local conditions and the discount price level.

Dropping the main sub makes no sense as club needs funds and the new "members" will pay the €1k in year two.... this is a counter-productive step.

GreeBo

do you think there are 40 local people who will switch club or are but current members?
or are you expecting people to travel?

is your course on the top 100?

I personally find it hard to imagine there are 40 going to join any existing club in the Dublin area, unless the club is week inside the top 100 at your price point.

Russman

[QUOTE=golfwallah;87769073
The reality is that there has been too much capacity and falling demand in the market for the past few years, which can only result in lower prices plus a certain number of clubs going under, at least until the economic situation stabilizes.[/QUOTE]

This ^^^^


TBH, and without being too pessimistic, its hard to see where/how it will end. As soon as one club comes up with a "deal", their neighbours match or beat it, and the cycle starts again. Club X goes from charging €1k, to charging €900 the next year, to €800 etc, where does it end ?

Most, if not all, clubs have cut costs to the absolute bone by now and, anecdotally, a lot are still losing members, so everyone's focus is on the income side now and how to mazimise that. Until people start spending again, I fear the worst for clubs on the knife edge.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

do you think there are 40 local people who will switch club or are but current members?
or are you expecting people to travel?

is your course on the top 100?

I personally find it hard to imagine there are 40 going to join any existing club in the Dublin area, unless the club is week inside the top 100 at your price point.

Or one of their neighbours is about to go under......

Hacker111

GreeBo wrote: »

do you think there are 40 local people who will switch club or are but current members?
or are you expecting people to travel?

is your course on the top 100?

I personally find it hard to imagine there are 40 going to join any existing club in the Dublin area, unless the club is week inside the top 100 at your price point.

not Dublin based... we picked up 10 new members this year without trying and at existing rates so why not 20+ at a much marketed discount level??

people will travel 20-30 mins max

not top 100

kkelliher

Woodlands outside naas did this bout 3/4 years ago and attracted a high number of new members but retained few if any and the course is now in the next allsop auction.

getting new members is one think keeping them is different and sorting your cost base is vital

yettie1701

Gowran Park where I'm a member has dropped it's sub to €499 for next year. That is all it will cost for new members to join as well. The offer runs from the first of October up to the end of 2016. The idea behind it is try to get 500 members in currently there are only 290. If they can achieve this over the next 3 years the plan is to keep the sub the same. I know I'm probably a little biased but I think that this represents serious value. It's a very good course and the clubhouse and catering facilities are great too.

Boskowski

I love Gowran Park. No hole is the same. No weak holes. A par 5 as index 1 and it truly is. The index 2 is a par 4 you won't forget. Fantastic parkland in a great countryside, great views, great everything. I don't find it much of a step down from its neighbour Mt Juliet even. I go there several times a year. If it was closer I'd be in. I hope things work out for Gowran.

yettie1701

You certainly know Gowran well. There is a commitment to spend a lot of money on the bunkers the work started last week and should be completed next year. The thinking is that if the numbers come in revenue will stay the same at least and hopefully increase because of the greater footfall. The next time you are heading down pm me if you fancy a round

rrpc

There are a number of things you can do to increase income without cutting things to the bone.

The first thing to do is look at the usage. Are there any/many free slots and when?

Green fees, how much are they and what's the differential between weekdays and weekends?

A multi-pronged approach could then be adopted. Reduce green fees and/or give special offers at times when the course is free. The idea being to bring in new people and get the place buzzing. At that point you can then assess the value of reducing the sub by talking to the green fee payers and seeing if they would join with a reduced sub.

Rather than introductory offers, you can also set subs from now until the end of 2016 at the same level of the annual sub. Effectively you are giving three free months but not reducing the sub.

Just a few ideas.

Hacker111

35 new members year 1, 40 year 2...... majority stayed on when sub increased. Definitely more capacity for new members in 2016. Will go with discount deal again and lower existing full sub marginally to a more attractive level to retain new joiners and retain as many existing members as possible. Plus 10 members rejoined from other clubs after leaving since 2012.

Costs massively trimmed and course still in tip top condition. Far from out of the woods. Need to rebuild membership by another 50 net full members after resignations. 2016 will be key but it looks positive right now.

Keep you updated!!