Cork City Hall - No funding to fix roads

Dannyboy83

http://www.corkindependent.com/20131128/news/no-funding-to-fix-roads-S76265.html

Is this a case of extremely poor planning on behalf of the Local Authority, or is it due to the lack of funds received from central government?

The roads around Cork are becoming quite dangerous, even at low speeds in urban areas. Drivers are forced to swerve at times to avoid some of the moon craters, which as you can imagine is going to result in road deaths, probably pedestrians or cyclists.

The population is too small for a Luas system & the public transport available is so infrequent and unreliable that only 8% of the city's residents use it

Poor roads through the rural areas I can understand.
But the Cork urban area is tiny. I cannot fathom any reason why the roads in Cork City should be quite this dangerous.

I was in London a few weeks ago and coming back to Cork felt like arriving in an Eastern European country. London is incredibly well administered with amazing transport network.
Cork, by comparison, is like going back in time to the 1950s.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Dannyboy83

True, I should leave the London comparison out of it, the point of the London comparison was just that they manage to make it work on such a big city (64-80 km diameter) with a huge population to service.

Scofflaw

No money to fix the roads..? We could be looking at the collapse of the Irish political system.

Seriously, though:

CORK CITY COUNCIL WORKFORCE PLAN wrote:

The WfP states that the financial capacity of CCC has been considerably reduced with cuts in the Local Government Fund, and to the general funding available from the Exchequer across the majority of the Council’s programmes and functions and has been further compromised by continuing pressures on local income streams. The Plan goes on to state that while CCC’s income sources have come under severe pressure, the demand for many services has increased over recent years.

and:

Last night Cork City Council passed the city’s budget for 2013, introducing new charges and breaking the voting pact.

Councillors debated the draft budget prepared by the city management, which sees a reduction of €4.8m in spending compared with 2012. Cork City Council was also hit by a reduction of 3.7 per cent in the Local Government Fund.

An introduction of €2 charge per week for boiler services in council-owned homes, an increase in the price of burial plots, a rise in commercial water rates and a reduction in arts funding were some of the highlights of the measures.

There might be bad planning in there, and there may also be high staffing issues, but there's also a reduction in the funds being made available centrally and in the money raised locally.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Rightwing

It's about labour costs, they are simply way too high. They can't be cut, so services will be cut instead.

creedp

Rightwing wrote: »

It's about labour costs, they are simply way too high. They can't be cut, so services will be cut instead.

They have been cut .. the Q is have they been cut enough.

Given the vociferous support for the LPT in providing much needed resources for local authorities I wonder why this windfall hasn't plugged the CCC funding gap? Presumably because for every € collected in LPT the Government has reduced central funding accordingly - so back at square 1.

Geuze

Yes, correct, LPT does not necessarily mean more funds for the councils, as the central Govt grant has or will be been cut.

dissed doc

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

http://www.corkindependent.com/20131128/news/no-funding-to-fix-roads-S76265.html

Is this a case of extremely poor planning on behalf of the Local Authority, or is it due to the lack of funds received from central government?

The roads around Cork are becoming quite dangerous, even at low speeds in urban areas. Drivers are forced to swerve at times to avoid some of the moon craters, which as you can imagine is going to result in road deaths, probably pedestrians or cyclists.

The population is too small for a Luas system & the public transport available is so infrequent and unreliable that only 8% of the city's residents use it

Poor roads through the rural areas I can understand.
But the Cork urban area is tiny. I cannot fathom any reason why the roads in Cork City should be quite this dangerous.

I was in London a few weeks ago and coming back to Cork felt like arriving in an Eastern European country. London is incredibly well administered with amazing transport network.
Cork, by comparison, is like going back in time to the 1950s.

Government decided that the Local Property Tax would not get spent locally. Your money for your property tax is going to probably support sink estates around Dublin and/or bank-welfare for ex-property developers.

London is better, at least central London; that is where the wealth is concentrated and that is where high council taxes get spent in the same neighborhood. . I advise going outside of central London to see the complete crap that most of the UK is in. My personal favourite is Merthyr Tydfil.

Then again, the UK network is pretty primal compared to the Netherlands which has for some reason (simply that it is a surprise if you visit it) an amazingly high quality road network, better than Germany.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

dissed doc

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So the Dutch get almost half a meter of road more per person compared to the UK! (UK = 6.1m of road per person, NL = 6.5m of road per person)

Ireland has around 92,000 km of road, so we get a luxurious 21,9m of road per person.

Germany has around 643,000km in total, so a paltry 7,8m per person. clearly wealthier than UK or NL, but not as rich in road as IE.

This is my new form of economic and social well-being assessment.

jhegarty

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I was in London a few weeks ago and coming back to Cork felt like arriving in an Eastern European country. London is incredibly well administered with amazing transport network.
Cork, by comparison, is like going back in time to the 1950s.

If only we could go all the way back to when Cork had a tram network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Patrick_Street_Cork2.jpg

Dannyboy83

jhegarty wrote: »

If only we could go all the way back to when Cork had a tram network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Patrick_Street_Cork2.jpg

It would be nice, but I recall the Green Party raised the potential for a Luas in Cork.

After a survey it was concluded that Cork is in a predicament - the public transport uptake is abmysally low due to very low standard, and because uptake is so low, they couldn't justify spending money on it.

http://www.corkcity.ie/services/roadstransportation/trafficdivision/corkareatransitsystemstudy/CATS%20Study%20Final%20Report%20Feb%202010_opt1.pdf
An analysis of Census 2006 journey to work data has found there to be high levels of car use
within the study area. In Cork City, only 7% of journeys to work are undertaken by public
transport, whereas in the Metropolitan Ring1
, the equivalent figure is 3%.
An analysis of journeys travel patterns indicates a dispersed travel demand pattern, which
presents a challenge in terms of economically developing high quality public transport
services to meet these demands. Furthermore, the existing public transport network does
not match the strongest observed travel patterns within the study area.

I'm not sure if another study was conducted, but this is a bit more recent

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0215/ireland/plan-to-beef-up-access-to-cityaposs-train-station-222761.html
"Cork City has relatively low public transport usage — just 8% of commuters in the city and the suburbs using public transport, compared to 21% in Dublin," Mr Kelly said.

"Cork also has a relatively low cycling share with just 2% of commuters using bikes to get to and from school and work.

"We want more people to use public transport, cycle and walk to work or school. But people need the necessary infrastructure to make the choice to change their mode of travel.

Given the estimated cost of building a Luas in Cork

http://corkpolitics.ie/wp/?p=8470
The cost of the proposed light rail system linking Cork city centre to Mahon in the east and Ballincollig in the west has been estimated at more than €1 billion.

I genuinely don't think it could be justified. Imagine what those funds could do for road standards across the country.


It's pretty clear that you have to have a car in Cork, so I really think that funds should be allocated accordingly, with high quality roads within the urban area being first priority.

It doesn't make sense to me that the roads in such a state of disrepair, with no funds available, yet there is money available to replace perfectly adequate road signage

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/speed-signs-rural-roads-replaced-2835851
Improving signage and enforcing the more sensible standards is expected to take two years and cost in the region of €8 million.

http://eamondelaney.wordpress.com/2013/11/12/proposed-new-road-signs-are-unnecessary-and-unrealistic/


If we are working off population density, as you would expect, I don't really understand why Cork City has such a small allocation compared to Cork County

http://corkindependent.com/20130613/news/pesky-potholes-to-be-repaired-S67080.html
“As part of a €50 million expenditure allocation that has been approved by Government for the repair, upkeep and maintenance of local and regional roads across the country, Cork County Council has been allocated €5,818,342, with the City Council being awarded €759,304.

“This total of €6,577,646 is the largest amount allocated to any county, reflecting the size of Cork and the sustained focus that the local authorities have kept on maintaining good quality roads. :pac:

TLDR Version;

Any alternative methods of transport would be welcomed I'm sure, but probably unjustified given the smallness of the city/population.

A reasonably safe set of roads and a reliable bus service would cater for the overwhelming majority of Cork city's population.

ardmacha

You have to wonder about the management of money, there are plenty of reports of dubious works taking place in Cork, to have these ongoing when basic repairs are not being done is madness. Wierd concepts of "capital" and "current" expenditure sometimes drive these. If you resurface a road, which might last 20 years, this is "current", but if you rebuild a road, which might last 20 years this is "capital" expenditure.

Good loser

I suggest Cork city be divided into 4 segments and road mtce be contracted out for 3 or 4 years.