Weight Question

Edg3

Hey all.

I started in the gym now, 6 months ago, doing lifting, general weight stuff. My starting weight was 70kilo and I had a 17.6% body fat index thingy. Since then Ive had 3 or 4 different workout routines and dropped to about 67kilo constant.
Recently I started to try and lean down so I could begin calisthenics workouts. I started a new diet, and this week started a new workout which is kicking my ass.
My main problem is I'm running into something I can't explain, my weight. I do 15 minutes of cardio a day right after my workout, I'm eating a semi vegan diet yet Ive gone up in weight consistently the last week and a half. I'm now 69kilo, yet Ive dropped mass all over, especially in my forearms. My thighs have dropped in side too and I can finally feel/see my abs a little. My traps and shoulders have shrunk noticeably (for me anyway).
I cant put my finger on why Im gaining weight and losing mass, I figured, if anything, I should be gaining mass and gaining weight, in that case I'd be happy.
I can post my workout if required but dont want to clutter the topic straight away.
Any help, advice or someone yelling I'm doing something wrong, is welcome.


Thanks.


To clarify the issue real quick here because my original wording is, terrible:

I switched to a Pesco-vegetarians diet, based off a vegan friends advice, I used his as a base and worked in fish and dairy.
I've lost noticeable mass in my forearms, shoulders, biceps and chest.
I've gained weight in my legs.
I've lost strength dropping nearly 5kilo for arms and shoulders, and 70kilo on leg press (squats however stayed the same)
I've also gained nearly 2kilo in a week.
Wondering how I can gain weight while also losing mass.

I've listed my supplement intake further down the page.

LuckyLloyd

How long have you been on the new diet? What does 'mostly vegan' equate to?

Edg3

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How long have you been on the new diet? What does 'mostly vegan' equate to?

Ive been on it now, this is week 3.

Ok its basically this.

Breakfast:
Shredded Wheat with Seeds (linseed and sunflower) and a banana.

Lunch and Pre Workout:
Nature Valley Bar
A Pear or Apple (depending on what I have)

Post Workout:
Protein Shake
Banana
Nature Valley Bar

Dinner:
Quinoa
Lentils or Beans
Spinach
Half an Avocado
Greek Yoghurt & Seeds

Supper: Only if I'm still hungry
Shredded Wheat (same thing as breakfast)
Handful of Almonds

If I get hungry during the day I'll usually have some fruit but I never go past 3-4 pieces a day, or a bar, or some nuts.
I have my protein 3 times a day, breakfast, lunch and post workout.

I drink at least 2 litres of water a day, between what I drink in the gym and green tea when I'm at home (i drink just water too).

I'm thinking of dropping the diet, I'm losing energy, strength and just generally not feeling great. First week and a half I was on it I felt great, lots of energy, and I was doing more in the gym back then too.

aaakev

Your diet is crap man. Why the vegan diet? Do you not eat meat as a choice or did you just decide to try this??

Edg3

aaakev wrote: »

Your diet is crap man. Why the vegan diet? Do you not eat meat as a choice or did you just decide to try this??

I decided to try it.

Before I switched over I did all the research, I checked what I was getting per meal and tried to sync it as close as possible to what I was eating before I switched over. To be honest I was eating far less and way worse before it.
I was getting alot of protein, but cut down about 50% of my carbohydrates or 25% of my calories per day with the new diet. My zinc and other vitamins went up too.
Overall it was healthier than my old diet which was same breakfast, nothing for lunch, chicken and potatoes for dinner and no supper because I was always full, but I was putting on alot more muscle and gaining no weight. The idea of switching over was to improve on that.

aaakev

Yeah that was worse! Lots of lean meat, lots of veg, nuts, some fruit, good carbs, oats, get milk in with the protien shakes ect... You need to eat more to build muscle

Edg3

aaakev wrote: »

Yeah that was worse! Lots of lean meat, lots of veg, nuts, some fruit, good carbs, oats, get milk in with the protien shakes ect... You need to eat more to build muscle

The diet was suggested to me by a friend in the States who does this stuff and since I started the gym I became increasingly interested in doing that kinda stuff.
I also meant to say I eat tuna too, but 3 times a week max because I hate the smell

Im intaking about 100-120grams of protein a day, which is optimal for muscle growth in someone my size. The problem is, the mass I had, 3 weeks ago has degraded, I lost half an inch on my forearms, I look like I'm sick! Friend asked me today if I was unwell! I didnt know what he meant til I was on the treadmill and seen myself in the mirror.
I'll be the first to admit, I'd NO idea what I was doing foodwise when I started. I'd just finished college, hadnt been eating properly for a long time, fish and salad for dinner, gronola bars for breakfast just because it was convenient. In the first month I dropped a load of body fat and then it kinda leveled out. In the past 3 weeks Ive put on 3 kilo and my muscle strength has decreased. I was flat benching 30kg, the other day I struggled with 22.5.
I wasnt sure if it was a trade off in strength for getting lean, but since my weights gone up and I feel more, bloaty, its just something I cant figure out.

Mellor

Serious question, have you been constipated? Might contribute to weight gain.

A few other observations;
A high number of raw seeds (and nuts) in a diet, can often result in a lot of them “passed through” undigested. Which means the calories aren’t absorbed, and you could be under eating.
Are you eating dry shredded wheat for breakfast?
I are eating tune now, or was that before you went vegan. (It’s not vegan obviously)

Edg3

Mellor wrote: »

Serious question, have you been constipated? Might contribute to weight gain.

A few other observations;
A high number of raw seeds (and nuts) in a diet, can often result in a lot of them “passed through” undigested. Which means the calories aren’t absorbed, and you could be under eating.
Are you eating dry shredded wheat for breakfast?
I are eating tune now, or was that before you went vegan. (It’s not vegan obviously)

Nope I'm quite regular. After breakfast and after dinner, like clockwork. The yoghurt helps with that too.

No I've the Shredded Wheat with milk (whole milk), 2 spoonfuls of seeds, 1 banana sliced, and a teaspoon of sugar.

Its not a full vegan diet, its based off of one, so its more vegetarian, I just got alot of people saying it was vegan to annoy me (gym people) and it kinda stuck in my head.

Ive cut back on the nuts actually, the first week I started this I ate alot more nuts than I ever had done before. The seeds Ive been eating now for 6-7 months regularly, but i have noticed the point you made, about them going through undigested.
I decided today to throw some chicken into my normal meal, chicken breast, spinach and beans for dinner. Felt much better and wasnt as tired.

I'm on a few supplements. Whey Protein (Mutant brand) Amino Acids (2 before and 2 after workout) BCAA drink mix for during the workout, as I was drinking close to 2 litres of water while working out at the start and its been cut down to just under 1litre now with the supplement. And I take PhD V-Max pump on arm/shoulder days (3 times a week). I originally thought it was water weight due to the creatine in the pump, but its such a tiny amount, only 3.8grams.

Mellor

Edg3 wrote: »

Its not a full vegan diet, its based off of one, so its more vegetarian.

It's not remotely vegan tbh. Yogurt, milk, tuna and whey aren't vegan. It's not even vegetarian due to the tuna.

What was this diet you've based it off. It looks a bit all over the place. What are you trying to achieve with the diet?

The diet was suggested to me by a friend in the States who does this stuff and since I started the gym I became increasingly interested in doing that kinda stuff.

What kinda "stuff", weight training, or vegetarian diets.
Sorry for all the questions, its just a little unclear what your goals and reasons are. It's absolutely fine if you choose not to eat meat. But I wouldn't follow that diet if weight gain was the only goal.

Edg3

Mellor wrote: »

It's not remotely vegan tbh. Yogurt, milk, tuna and whey aren't vegan. It's not even vegetarian due to the tuna.

What was this diet you've based it off. It looks a bit all over the place. What are you trying to achieve with the diet?



What kinda "stuff", weight training, or vegetarian diets.
Sorry for all the questions, its just a little unclear what your goals and reasons are. It's absolutely fine if you choose not to eat meat. But I wouldn't follow that diet if weight gain was the only goal.

Its not vegan no, its based off a vegan diet plan, it was stupid wording on my part, I was kinda wrecked when I wrote it originally.
It is however acceptably vegetarian, tuna, milk products are all accepted by vegetarians as ok. Sisters been one for 15 years and eats fish and drinks milk all the time.

No need to apologize, you can't help me if you don't have all the facts.
My mate in the US is very into calisthenics, is a full on vegan and he offered me advice when it came to switching over (at least to try, I said I'd try it for a month). We tweaked his diet because he trained 6 days, 3 sessions a day, I only do 5 days and one session a day.

The main issue is that in the last week or so Ive lost mass and strength in my shoulders, traps, biceps and forearms (even though I'm working them nearly every day in some way). I also gained alot of weight (not muscle) in my legs, and I had to drop weight down severely on the leg press, I was doing 190kg, I had to drop to 125 this week just to get my reps in.
All my energy is gone and I've gained nearly 2kg in a week. Almost feels like a step backwards if you get me.

The reason I switched diets is due to the lack of most things I needed in my daily eating. Like I said above I was eating but getting nearly no real nutrients or vitamins in my diet. I was recently with the doctor for what I thought was an unrelated issue and was told it was a lack of vitamins in my diet. Thats been fixed through the newer diet (mostly the spinach & a vitamin supplement).

I just can't put my finger on why I lost so much (noticeable) mass and gained weight.

I spent a few hours last night going over everything and changed my entire diet again, kinda taking a step backwards to when I was doing better, but keeping the improvements I'd learned about.

Mr. Manager

It's a pescetarian diet, not a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat fish.

Edg3

I Love PPPP Longtime wrote: »

It's a pescetarian diet, not a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat fish.

Ah cool, I learned something new

thegreatiam

If you don't have any requirements medically or morally then you shouldnt be eating a restrictive diet.

Eat what you are supposed to eat, a varied and balanced diet of meat veg, fish dairy and nuts and seeds with odd bits of fruit.

Keep it varied to make sure that you are getting all the right vitamins and minerals and keep it balanced so you are not eating too much or either protein, carbs or fat.

stop over-complicating your diet without reason.

If you do have medical or moral reasons for choosing such a diet then you need to do it properly, There is no harm in choosing this lifestyle, but you need to go out and fully research the correct way to sustain a restricted diet, lord knows there is enough information out there.

You cant be like a lot of people who believe a vegan/vegetarian diet is simply a matter of not having meat. My sister in law is doing this and just subsists on a diet of potato and salad and wonders why she is overweight, miserable and has no energy. She has no understanding of how her body functions and is full of a deluded vegan sense of superiority cos all her food is "humane" so she wont listen to anyone else when it comes to her diet.

Both vegans and vegetarians only do well because they educate them selves fully about their diets. They understand what they need and know where to source it and how to supplement it.

Which ever approach you take you still need to sit down and calculate your calorie requirements per day, factor in your daily calisthenics and eat the correct amount of food. At the end of the day it is the amount you eat that will ultimately dictate your body mass.

Edg3

thegreatiam wrote: »

If you don't have any requirements medically or morally then you shouldnt be eating a restrictive diet.

Eat what you are supposed to eat, a varied and balanced diet of meat veg, fish dairy and nuts and seeds with odd bits of fruit.

Keep it varied to make sure that you are getting all the right vitamins and minerals and keep it balanced so you are not eating too much or either protein, carbs or fat.

stop over-complicating your diet without reason.

If you do have medical or moral reasons for choosing such a diet then you need to do it properly, There is no harm in choosing this lifestyle, but you need to go out and fully research the correct way to sustain a restricted diet, lord knows there is enough information out there.

You cant be like a lot of people who believe a vegan/vegetarian diet is simply a matter of not having meat. My sister in law is doing this and just subsists on a diet of potato and salad and wonders why she is overweight, miserable and has no energy. She has no understanding of how her body functions and is full of a deluded vegan sense of superiority cos all her food is "humane" so she wont listen to anyone else when it comes to her diet.

Both vegans and vegetarians only do well because they educate them selves fully about their diets. They understand what they need and know where to source it and how to supplement it.

Which ever approach you take you still need to sit down and calculate your calorie requirements per day, factor in your daily calisthenics and eat the correct amount of food. At the end of the day it is the amount you eat that will ultimately dictate your body mass.

Thanks for that.

Thing is, I did my research, since about September I started reading up on this as an idea. Originally it was down to two thing, money and health.
My original diet was ****, I know it, there was basically nothing in it, I dont even think diets the right word, I'm not restricting myself, I was simply trying to eat healthier, and I found that what I needed, and what I was missing, could easily be obtained through what I was reading up on. I calculated how much of each thing I needed per day and I'd cook appropriately. The only real meats I was eating at that stage was chicken, turkey and fish. I'm not a huge fan or red meats though if I see a nice steak I will buy it.

For the first time in about 15 years I was actually getting about 99.9% of my GDA across the board. I'd been overweight for as long as I could remember, and with the gym, and the healthier diet I'd slimmed down alot, but I think that was mainly down to burning off what little I was taking in. I blew through weights up until recently, going up 5kilo a month nearly with ease, now I'm dropping back down with no real reasoning behind it.
I spoke to a trainer in the gym who told me it was probably a carb deficiency, something he'd been doing now for a while, he said he'd suffered the same, but he was nearly twice my weight and trying to slim down.

I've done my calculations and I'm taking in around 2200(ish) calories a day. My carbohydrates are possibly 250, recommended for me is about 350 for my height/build and age, coupled with my workout regime.

Trust me I took none of this lightly and did days of research into each food thing I was planning on eating, along with the help of my friend from the states and his many many years of knowledge in this field.

I decided to stop with calisthenics for a while. I'm still trying to workout issues with my knees which make certain exercises nearly impossible (flat feet, ignorant doctors, 1 sessions of physio, a pat on the back and away you go), so I've come up with a new plan and I'll pick back up on the calisthenics at a later stage when the issues are less prominent than they are now, I didn't realize just how bad my mobility was until I started and had a flex test done.

I think however you're extremely really correct in your post about not complicating it. If I have something that works, why go complicating it. Even today after going back to meat last night and just eating as I would normally, with added half a chicken (I was very hungry) I feel 100 times better (if you ignore the chest pain from my chest day on Wednesday).

I'll keep an eye on my weight over the next week or two, see if the mass comes back and see how I feel then.
It really just was an experiment to see if I could improve my lifestyle and strength at the same time, but I feel I might have found a happy medium between the two now. I can't stress how much I actually missed chicken

thegreatiam

start tracking your food exactly.

add everything you eat into an app like myfitnesspal.

and dont forget that as your body changes you need to recalculate your daily calories.

Edg3

thegreatiam wrote: »

start tracking your food exactly.

add everything you eat into an app like myfitnesspal.

and dont forget that as your body changes you need to recalculate your daily calories.

I'm already doing that via an app on my phone. Quite handy.

Edg3

Just home from 2 hours in the gym, felt much better today. Dont know if it was all in my head, or the full chicken I ate yesterday for dinner but everything was working again, not back up to my usual standard, 12.5 on arnold press compared to 15 a couple weeks ago, but the strength was there.
I think I just amn't built for the lower carb diet.

Weight also dropped somehow I'm down a kilo on yesterdays weight.

Blacktie.

Edg3 wrote: »

Just home from 2 hours in the gym, felt much better today. Dont know if it was all in my head, or the full chicken I ate yesterday for dinner but everything was working again, not back up to my usual standard, 12.5 on arnold press compared to 15 a couple weeks ago, but the strength was there.
I think I just amn't built for the lower carb diet.

Weight also dropped somehow I'm down a kilo on yesterdays weight.

Did you eat some kind of carb source before this gym session compared to previous ones? This can make a big difference especially if you're drained on previous sessions.

Edg3

Blacktie. wrote: »

Did you eat some kind of carb source before this gym session compared to previous ones? This can make a big difference especially if you're drained on previous sessions.

Nope same as always but I had chicken for dinner the day before. My morning routine pretty much stays the same no matter what I'm doing.

ciaobella

I Love PPPP Longtime wrote: »

It's a pescetarian diet, not a vegetarian. Vegetarians don't eat fish.

Googled it. Thanks for sharing new info.

Edg3

Just a quick update.

Been a week now since I came out the "diet" and I'm feeling much better. I've put mass back on, I'm feeling stronger again and Ive dropped the 3kilo I put on while I was on it.
Ive really just changed my overall dinner menu, adding chicken/turkey or steak (once every so often) back into it and feeling tons better.

Today I managed my first 5 muscle ups after 4 weeks of trying I finally had the strength to do it.

Thanks for all the help everyone. Much appreciated.