Speeding Fine X2

skodacb

Hi all my company has received a fine relating to me speeding in one of their vehicles.

Was caught twice in Clonmore area last Thursday, which is joutside Mooncoin on the way to Carrick On Suir. It's alleged I was doing 89km/h in a 60 zone. Therein lies the problem.

The speed limit is 80k as you come out of Mooncoin and then goes to 100k. Where the van was located at the time was in the 100k zone. There was no roadworks or anything other signs other than the posted speed limit.

Also the vehicle is restricted to 90km/h and is under the 3.5tonne limit.

What are my options?

GTE

skodacb wrote: »

Hi all my company has received a fine relating to me speeding in one of their vehicles.

Was caught twice in Clonmore area last Thursday, which is joutside Mooncoin on the way to Carrick On Suir. It's alleged I was doing 89km/h in a 60 zone. Therein lies the problem.

The speed limit is 80k as you come out of Mooncoin and then goes to 100k. Where the van was located at the time was in the 100k zone. There was no roadworks or anything other signs other than the posted speed limit.

Also the vehicle is restricted to 90km/h and is under the 3.5tonne limit.

What are my options?

First thing I would do is get photos of the part of the road and speed transitions if it is handy.

EDIT:

Although I am not questioning whether the 60 zone exists or not, I would wonder if the van is allowed to be placed in a 100 zone looking into a lower zone, meaning that it can catch people accelerating too early for example.

mickdw

The van you say was located within a 100 zone but did it capture you within the 80 zone?

Id certainly challenge it as you were not doing 89 in a 60 zone.

Stheno

Double check the limits?
Contact the Co. Council to verify then appeal?

That's once you were in the 100kph zone, if you were in the 80kph zone, you don't have many options.

Anan1

It doesn't matter where the van was, where were you?

skodacb

Stheno wrote: »

Double check the limits?
Contact the Co. Council to verify then appeal?

That's once you were in the 100kph zone, if you were in the 80kph zone, you don't have many options.

I did check today, where the gatso was parked was at least 1/4 mile inside the 100k.

Anan1

skodacb wrote: »

I did check today, where the gatso was parked was at least 1/4 mile inside the 100k.

Call them and ask for a copy of the photo - that should help you to work out where you were.

CiniO

skodacb wrote: »

Also the vehicle is restricted to 90km/h and is under the 3.5tonne limit.

What are my options?

Out of curiosity why is the vehicle limited to 90km/h even though it's below 3.5 tonne gross weight?

Is it a minibus? If so, how many passengers can it accomodate?

guil

What relevance does it have that it's limited to 90 or what weight it is. The op is accused of doing 89kmh.

CiniO

guil wrote: »

What relevance does it have that it's limited to 90 or what weight it is. The op is accused of doing 89kmh.

It could have some relevance.

ian87

I got caught in almost identical circumstances this week. I just checked the go safe website and it not showing where I was caught as an area with speed cameras in operation. Have I grounds to appeal the fine?

ironclaw

ian87 wrote: »

I got caught in almost identical circumstances this week. I just checked the go safe website and it not showing where I was caught as an area with speed cameras in operation. Have I grounds to appeal the fine?

Then you were snapped by a Garda van. As per the speed camera thread, and the first sticky, Garda vans can operate on any road, at any time and issue fines. GoSafe vans can only operate in GoSafe zones. No grounds for appeal unless you could prove it was a GoSafe van operating outside a GoSafe van (Does not happen)

Anecdotally, and this is not legislation or a rule, but it would appear GoSafe vans never operate closer than 100m to the change of the speed limit. An Garda Siochana also appear to operate under the same pretences. Also, neither would ever monitor from one speed zone into another i.e. Shooting in a 80km/h zone into a 60km/h. Would be too easy to contest in court.

ian87

Where I was caught was in a 60 zone but the 100km signs were in sight. Would this have any bearing?

pa990

@ op

The ticket should display gps coordinates on the picture.
Or maybe only on the big picture that you can request.
That will show you exactly where you were c caught.

ian87 wrote: »

Where I was caught was in a 60 zone but the 100km signs were in sight. Would this have any bearing?

Nope. The speed limit applies from the point where the sign is, not from where it is visible from.

Anan1

ian87 wrote: »

Where I was caught was in a 60 zone but the 100km signs were in sight. Would this have any bearing?

??

ian87

I understood from a previous post that if the signs for a change in speed limit were within sight then it could be grounds for an appeal. Mea culpa.

djimi

ian87 wrote: »

I understood from a previous post that if the signs for a change in speed limit were within sight then it could be grounds for an appeal. Mea culpa.

I can think of a few spots where a 50 zone becomes 80, and you can see the 80 signs while driving past a school. In a lot of situations common sense would prevail (especially where its a Garda and not a van), but its not something that you could be so black and white about.

Anan1

ian87 wrote: »

I understood from a previous post that if the signs for a change in speed limit were within sight then it could be grounds for an appeal. Mea culpa.

If only!

Lardy

OP, is the vehicle you where driving a Van or a truck? The GoSafe Van would have detected the length and height of the vehicle you where driving so it can determine if you are speeding or not. If it's not a Van, you where speeding. The only 60 zone on that road is just as you come into Carrick isn't it?

TheNog

bbk wrote: »

Although I am not questioning whether the 60 zone exists or not, I would wonder if the van is allowed to be placed in a 100 zone looking into a lower zone, meaning that it can catch people accelerating too early for example.

No definitely should not happen but if it did you could have grounds to appeal directly to the Fixed Penalty office or local Superintendent.

The van radar has limited range to about 25m I think and to have it on the border of speed limits would be considered very unfair.

TheNog

ian87 wrote: »

I understood from a previous post that if the signs for a change in speed limit were within sight then it could be grounds for an appeal. Mea culpa.

No chance of appeal.

skodacb

Lardy wrote: »

OP, is the vehicle you where driving a Van or a truck? The GoSafe Van would have detected the length and height of the vehicle you where driving so it can determine if you are speeding or not. If it's not a Van, you where speeding. The only 60 zone on that road is just as you come into Carrick isn't it?

It's a home shopping vehicle for a British grocery chain, as to why someone else asked about the 90k limiter probably for lower insurance on a fleet of van's is my own guess. Van is 9' high by 23' long.

Yes you are correct in that the only 60k zone between Mooncoin and Carrick is just come into it.

As it's a company vehicle but I was driving, do I ask my company to ask for the photographs or do I do it myself, if it's myself that has to ask for the photographs how do I get them ??

TheNog

skodacb wrote: »

It's a home shopping vehicle for a British grocery chain, as to why someone else asked about the 90k limiter probably for lower insurance on a fleet of van's is my own guess. Van is 9' high by 23' long.

Yes you are correct in that the only 60k zone between Mooncoin and Carrick is just come into it.

As it's a company vehicle but I was driving, do I ask my company to ask for the photographs or do I do it myself, if it's myself that has to ask for the photographs how do I get them ??

Phone number is on the penalty notice.

skodacb

Thanks for all the help folks. Looks like Go Safe has made the blunder from their email reply. They gave me the coordinates of the van +52.31187,-7.28914 well within the 100km/h zone but due to the vans length and height it was marked it under the 80km/h max speed for vehicles over 3.5t.
So long as my employer sends off the log book to confirm that the van is under 3.5t, looks like the points and fine will be null and void

slimjimmc

skodacb wrote: »

Thanks for all the help folks. Looks like Go Safe has made the blunder from their email reply. They gave me the coordinates of the van +52.31187,-7.28914 well within the 100km/h zone but due to the vans length and height it was marked it under the 80km/h max speed for vehicles over 3.5t.
So long as my employer sends off the log book to confirm that the van is under 3.5t, looks like the points and fine will be null and void

Good outcome OP, but I find the explanation for the error a bit hard to believe. Surely the class of vehicle is determined from the NDVF (National Drive and Vehicle File) using the reg plate as read by ANPR.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

Good outcome OP, but I find the explanation for the error a bit hard to believe. Surely the class of vehicle is determined from the NDVF (National Drive and Vehicle File) using the reg plate as read by ANPR.

Are you sure that NDVF contains data like that? (Gross Vehicle weight) ?

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure that NDVF contains data like that? (Gross Vehicle weight) ?

It should do since it's the repository from which many motor related documents, including the VRC are generated.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

It should do since it's the repository from which many motor related documents, including the VRC are generated.

F.e. none of my car have their GVW indicated in VRC.
None of those is a van or truck though, so maybe that's why.
But knowing how much mess they might have there, I'd be no surprised, if guys operating speed camera didn't have access to GVW by number plate.

skodacb

slimjimmc wrote: »

Good outcome OP, but I find the explanation for the error a bit hard to believe. Surely the class of vehicle is determined from the NDVF (National Drive and Vehicle File) using the reg plate as read by ANPR.

Surprised by it myself, but from there email it happens in their own word's

"In 100km/hr zones only, certain vehicles are restricted to 80km/hr speed limits. In determining the vehicles that this lower speed limit applies to, the width, length and height off the road are some of the factors considered. In a very small minority of cases the vehicles that are alleged to have exceeded the lower speed limit of 80km/hr are exempt, as the vehicle is under the 3500kg weight restriction.
 
If the vehicle weighs less than 3500kg, I would now ask that you provide documentary proof confirming same i.e. copy of log book. On receipt of same, I will then be in a position to give the matter further attention. This can be scanned and forwarded to this office, for my attention by email at npo@garda.ie, faxed to (0504) 59844 or posted to Fixed Charge Processing Office, Parnell Street, Thurles, Co. Tipperary."
 

Lardy

The GoSafe Van detects the height and length to determin class of vehicle. Not 100% perfect as the OP found out. GoSafe also have absolutely nothing to do with issuing the penalties. The images from the vans are sent to AGS and it is they who prosecute the offences.