New Aldi on the way to the Dunmore road?

south

FILE
NUMBER
DATE : 13/11/2013
WATERFORD CITY COUNCIL
P L A N N I N G A P P L I C A T I O N S

Noel Frisby
P
08/11/2013
the construction of a single storey Aldi discount
foodstore (1715 m2 GFA, 1252 m2 NFA) including
the sale of alcohol for consumption off the premises,
loading bay, cash transfer hatch, bin store, trolley
bay, delivery area, car park, bicycle stands, totem
sign, ESB Sub-Station, building signage and all
associated landscaping, boundary treatments,
attenuation and site development works
The Cove Roundabout
Ardkeen
Waterford
13/106
Noel Frisby
P
08/11/2013
the construction of a two storey building consisting
of service retail use at ground floor, office use at first
floor, car park, bicycle stands, signage and all
associated landscaping boundary treatments and site
development works
Cove Roundabout
Dunmore Road
Wat

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/documents/planninglists/lists/2013/Received%204-10%20Nov%2013.pdf

south

I take it this is for the car park space behind the Uluru?

Jason Todd

south wrote: »

I take it this is for the car park space behind the Uluru?

Indeed! I saw a bit of talk about it on twitter a few weeks back. It's not needed imo. You've got Tesco Ardkeen, Ardkeen QFS and Lidl there already, and the large Maxol and Londis a bit further out the road then too.

JPA

Jason Todd wrote: »

Indeed! I saw a bit of talk about it on twitter a few weeks back. It's not needed imo. You've got Tesco Ardkeen, Ardkeen QFS and Lidl there already, and the large Maxol and Londis a bit further out the road then too.

It's not about what you think is needed though, ALDI clearly think the market is there.
Plus a greater choice is better for the customer.

Adyx

In a dramatic twist for an Irish town, soon we'll have more supermarkets than pubs!

Digital Society

Jason Todd wrote: »

Indeed! I saw a bit of talk about it on twitter a few weeks back. It's not needed imo. You've got Tesco Ardkeen, Ardkeen QFS and Lidl there already, and the large Maxol and Londis a bit further out the road then too.

You just dont use it so. Everyone else will welcome the new jobs and competition.

michellie

This is great, I prefer Aldi to Lidl!

mike65

Happy with this (though as above I'm amazed that Aldi think there is enough of a market to go round - Tesco, Ardkeen, Lidl and now this other lot, plus corner shops).

shockwave

Its not needed out there for fecks sake we have enough shops in that area as it is and the extra traffic it will cause wont be welcome either

madfcuker

Wasn't there plans for it to go out by the ballinakill shopping centre originally.

old gregg

Happy to have an Aldi within walking distance of my house

mike65

madfcuker wrote: »

Wasn't there plans for it to go out by the ballinakill shopping centre originally.

previous thread on this topic http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86546600

hardybuck

As it is the road is unsuitable really for the type of traffic flow coming and going out of it.

If it was anywhere else you'd have a large roundabout with two lanes of traffic going each way.

Between ambulances, heavy goods traffic, and the general commuter traffic at present, I don't think shoving another supermarket in there would be suitable.

Also, in terms of urban planning, the whole Dunmore Road area is a disgrace. The lack of public green spaces is unreal.

ex_infantry

hardybuck wrote: »

As it is the road is unsuitable really for the type of traffic flow coming and going out of it.

If it was anywhere else you'd have a large roundabout with two lanes of traffic going each way.

Between ambulances, heavy goods traffic, and the general commuter traffic at present, I don't think shoving another supermarket in there would be suitable.

Also, in terms of urban planning, the whole Dunmore Road area is a disgrace. The lack of public green spaces is unreal.

open your eye's there's plenty of green spaces out that way!!!

hardybuck

ex_infantry wrote: »

open your eye's there's plenty of green spaces out that way!!!

There is one? Very few places where young lads could play football or anything.

Imagine a large town of that size with no soccer club in it!? And only one GAA club out on outskirts of it.

Anyway, that's off topic. That part of the road is already unfit for purpose and struggling to cope without shoving another supermarket in there.

JohnC.

shockwave wrote: »

Its not needed out there for fecks sake we have enough shops in that area as it is and the extra traffic it will cause wont be welcome either

If it's not needed, there won't be any extra traffic and it'll be gone before too long. If there is extra traffic, then it turns out it was needed. I'm guessing the latter.

But hey, down with these companies bringing more jobs and competition to a city people are complaining needs it, eh?

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

There is one? Very few places where young lads could play football or anything.

Imagine a large town of that size with no soccer club in it!? And only one GAA club out on outskirts of it.

Soccer? This is the Dunmore Road you are talking about? Seriously though, there are a few green areas about. And Waterford is a city not a town.

Regards...jmcc

hardybuck

jmcc wrote: »

Soccer? This is the Dunmore Road you are talking about? Seriously though, there are a few green areas about. And Waterford is a city not a town.

Regards...jmcc

The Dunmore Road area with a population of 12,000 or whatever it is is a town within the city, and I was trying to quickly compare it's facilities to other towns of a similar size.

Where are these mystery hidden facilities? There is a public facility in Williamstown and Waterpark rugby club. Places like Grange Cove were built on soccer pitches and nothing to replace them.

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

The Dunmore Road area with a population of 12,000 or whatever it is is a town within the city, and I was trying to quickly compare it's facilities to other towns of a similar size.

Nah. Dunmore Road isn't Galway. It is part of the city. (Or at least the part that is in the city is part of the city. The Dunmore Road is actually about 10KM long or so. What some people consider the DMR is Glenville, Leoville, Viewmount, Powerscourt, Earlscourt etc out to Knockboy.)

Where are these mystery hidden facilities? There is a public facility in Williamstown and Waterpark rugby club. Places like Grange Cove were built on soccer pitches and nothing to replace them.

I don't know. Perhaps you could go outside,have a look and report back?

Regards...jmcc

hardybuck

jmcc wrote: »

Nah. Dunmore Road isn't Galway. It is part of the city. (Or at least the part that is in the city is part of the city. The Dunmore Road is actually about 10KM long or so. What some people consider the DMR is Glenville, Leoville, Viewmount, Powerscourt, Earlscourt etc out to Knockboy.)

Jesus. I'll explain this as plainly as I can. Compare that area of 10KM, with the population that it has, to another town somewhere else of a similar size in order to compare the facilities that are on offer.

Facilities that are out on the Cork Road for example aren't always readily accessible for people out there. In order to build functioning communities you need to provide basic facilities near to where people live.

So, if you compared say Dungarvan, which has a much smaller population, they'd have a park, three GAA clubs, a couple of soccer clubs, tennis club, badminton, squash, rugby. Just from a sporting point of view, that's what I'd expect to service a population and area of that size.

jmcc wrote: »

I don't know. Perhaps you could go outside,have a look and report back?

Regards...jmcc

Why are you commenting on stuff you don't know about?

Actually, this is going too far off topic. I'll leave it at voicing my concern that the road infrastructure could not cope with the increased traffic as it is already completely insufficient to deal with the current levels.

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

Jesus. I'll explain this as plainly as I can. Compare that area of 10KM, with the population that it has, to another town somewhere else of a similar size in order to compare the facilities that are on offer.

The Dunmore Road area is not a town. It is part of the city. It is not a logical comparison to start comparing a part of a city with a town and expecting the part of the city to be the same.

Just from a sporting point of view, that's what I'd expect to service a population and area of that size.

The problem is that you are applying your village/town expectations to a city.

Why are you commenting on stuff you don't know about?

I thought you lived or worked in the Dunmore Road area. But then having seen the area being developed and changing from an almost rural area to a suburban area, gives me a perspective that you lack.

I'll leave it at voicing my concern that the road infrastructure could not cope with the increased traffic as it is already completely insufficient to deal with the current levels.

It is just an Aldi. And if you think that it would create a strain on the road infrastructure, you can always object. The people in this area do act as a community. I think that the developer found that out a few years ago.

Regards...jmcc

Littlelulu13

They need a pedestrian crossing to get from Lidl side to the uluru side of the road!! The cars fly in off the roundabout and out of the carparks! I had to help a very elderly man cross there and it was very difficult! I saw others running across to dodge the cars too. Nobody stopped to leave us cross safely either so he had to hurry across the road when he got the opportunity. Its lethal there so I dread to think how much extra traffic Aldi will attract.

fricatus

Littlelulu13 wrote: »

They need a pedestrian crossing to get from Lidl side to the uluru side of the road!! The cars fly in off the roundabout and out of the carparks! I had to help a very elderly man cross there and it was very difficult! I saw others running across to dodge the cars too. Nobody stopped to leave us cross safely either so he had to hurry across the road when he got the opportunity. Its lethal there so I dread to think how much extra traffic Aldi will attract.

Actually yeah, this is a very good point. The traffic in there is madness. Even a little painted roundabout by the car wash would make a huge difference.

hardybuck

jmcc wrote: »

The Dunmore Road area is not a town. It is part of the city. It is not a logical comparison to start comparing a part of a city with a town and expecting the part of the city to be the same.

The problem is that you are applying your village/town expectations to a city.

I thought you lived or worked in the Dunmore Road area. But then having seen the area being developed and changing from an almost rural area to a suburban area, gives me a perspective that you lack.

It is just an Aldi. And if you think that it would create a strain on the road infrastructure, you can always object. The people in this area do act as a community. I think that the developer found that out a few years ago.

Regards...jmcc

So, jmcc, to summarise, you think it's acceptable that everyone there needs to drive up to the other end of the city if they need to access any of said facilities?

A city should be built up of a series of towns, with a central business district. Communities need services on their doorstep.

If you go to Cork, Douglas, Bishopstown, Blackpool etc. will all have their own shopping centres, schools, churches, sports clubs - they are towns within a city. Same goes for Dublin, and more or less every city.

If you live in Waterford, and you live in or around the Dunmore Road area, you'll have bits and pieces. You'll have plenty of shops and a couple of pubs, but you won't find enough sports clubs or schools to send your children to. You need to drive to access facilities which haven't been provided, which is part of the reason why the traffic is so bad out there.

jmcc

hardybuck wrote: »

So, jmcc, to summarise, you think it's acceptable that everyone there needs to drive up to the other end of the city if they need to access any of said facilities?

That's the difference between a real city and a glorified town that's really just a collection of villages. Waterford developed as a real city and is over 1000 years old.

A city should be built up of a series of towns, with a central business district. Communities need services on their doorstep.

According to whom? It is all very nice if you are dealing with a makey-up city like Galway or the like but historical development patterns in many cities show them expanding to cover their hinterland and turning rural areas into urban areas. They also absorb outlying villages and towns but with real cities, that's because the development envelopes these towns and villages. Now some councils elsewhere do frequent landgrabs by redesignating county areas as "city" areas in order to make it look like they are real cities rather than towns. However the real determinant of a city area is the population density per square kilometre. Now if you look at maps of the area that include this data, you will see that Waterford and the surrounding area is quite different to makey-up cities and it may be closer in format to continental cities that have had similar development over a thousand years or more.

If you go to Cork, Douglas, Bishopstown, Blackpool etc. will all have their own shopping centres, schools, churches, sports clubs - they are towns within a city. Same goes for Dublin, and more or less every city.

Again the fixation with towns and villages is distracting you from what constitutes a city. Cities have districts or areas but they rely on the the core of the city for most services.

If you live in Waterford, and you live in or around the Dunmore Road area, you'll have bits and pieces. You'll have plenty of shops and a couple of pubs, but you won't find enough sports clubs or schools to send your children to. You need to drive to access facilities which haven't been provided, which is part of the reason why the traffic is so bad out there.

The traffic is so bad out here, at times, because of decisions made in the 1970s and 1980s. The road out to the Industrial Estate was predicated on the idea that many people in the area would be working there and that this would improve traffic. However the demographics of the area developed differently to the way that planners thought back then. Some of the traffic problem can be attributed to the screwed up traffic system in past Newtown and the People's Park and the fact that the Dunmore Road itself is serving an area as far out as Passage, Woodstown, Dunmore each morning. It is one of the busiest roads in the city. A few years ago, I think (figures are not 100% accurate) that it was measured at approximately 900 vehicles per hour throughout the day. However better public transport might reduce that somewhat if it was ever implemented.

Regards...jmcc

Fishy1

Just wondering if a decision has been made on this yet?

GUEVARA50

Just wondering if anyone knows of a plan for a roundabout similar to Oscars at junction of Knockboy / Dunmore Road at Becketts Pub ???

Heard it mooted in 2002 and with volume of traffic now it is needed bad !