When is it time to cut your losses on a car?

fricatus

Hi,

I have a 2005 Honda Accord 2.2 diesel with 136,000 miles on the clock. It's running well and still feels well screwed together.

I've just had a service done, including discs and pads all around, a front caliper, and some sort of ball joint or strut in the front suspension (which needed to be done on account of the NCT - to be retested this weekend).

The whole lot has cost me €1,000, which is painful enough coming up to Christmas. Of course if I could keep yearly repairs and servicing to about that amount, then with road tax and insurance, she's only costing me about €2,500 a year, before diesel, which is not bad for the 20,000 miles a year that I do. I don't envisage changing it for some time yet.

However my question is this: at what point is it a waste to be throwing money into an old car with high mileage? What are the pointers that tell you that it's time to give up and change up?

corkgsxr

136k isnt that high a milage at all.

When you it starts costing you more in repairs or fuel that it would cost to just change up.

Or when you decide "I wanna new car"

Bear in mind your car now should be perfect you could buy a much newer car and have bother with it

listermint

New doesnt mean less money. Always keep that in the back of your mind.

tagoona

Faced with the same question myself at the moment.
04 Mazda 6 2L diesel with 183K on the clock.
Was going fine, but last couple of months, power has been down.
Mechanic announced last week that DMF is on the way out.
It;s going to cost the bones of 1k to fix a car worth about 2.5 K.
For me, that's the time to change the car. Big repairs on small value car, with no guarantee of future reliability in relation to other parts of the car.
Gutted really. I liked my mazda

fricatus

tagoona wrote: »

Big repairs on small value car, with no guarantee of future reliability in relation to other parts of the car.

I guess this is the key thing, isn't it? I would see discs and pads, and certain suspension bits, as being consumables, just like tyres. They're always going to wear out and have to be replaced. But when bigger stuff starts going, surely that's the time to consider a change?

fricatus

fricatus wrote: »

I guess this is the key thing, isn't it? I would see discs and pads, and certain suspension bits, as being consumables, just like tyres. They're always going to wear out and have to be replaced. But when bigger stuff starts going, surely that's the time to consider a change?

Consider the cost of interest on a loan and depreciation. That alone can add up to much more then even the fuel and repairs.

tagoona

tagoona wrote: »

Faced with the same question myself at the moment.
04 Mazda 6 2L diesel with 183K on the clock.
Was going fine, but last couple of months, power has been down.
Mechanic announced last week that DMF is on the way out.
It;s going to cost the bones of 1k to fix a car worth about 2.5 K.
For me, that's the time to change the car. Big repairs on small value car, with no guarantee of future reliability in relation to other parts of the car.
Gutted really. I liked my mazda

The joys of modern diesels !

AFAIK isn't the NCT going to start checking for people who remove the DPF ?

mitosis

OP, thing is, if you buy a new car tomorrow this time next year it will be worth 20% less than you paid for it. You'd need to be putting c€5k per annum into your old car just to keep pace with the depreciation of a modest new one.

jomoloney

fricatus wrote: »

Hi,

I have a 2005 Honda Accord 2.2 diesel with 136,000 miles on the clock. It's running well and still feels well screwed together.

I've just had a service done, including discs and pads all around, a front caliper, and some sort of ball joint or strut in the front suspension (which needed to be done on account of the NCT - to be retested this weekend).

The whole lot has cost me €1,000, which is painful enough coming up to Christmas. Of course if I could keep yearly repairs and servicing to about that amount, then with road tax and insurance, she's only costing me about €2,500 a year, before diesel, which is not bad for the 20,000 miles a year that I do. I don't envisage changing it for some time yet.

However my question is this: at what point is it a waste to be throwing money into an old car with high mileage? What are the pointers that tell you that it's time to give up and change up?

no experience of honda, but that milage is small enough, @ 20k miles per would be hoping for a few years yet

was it a main dealer, cos a €1k seems pricey for the work done

we have a primera dsl with about 280 k miles , 5 years ago was offered €1k for it on trade in, other than maintance it has cost about €1k on repairs since

mickdw

mitosis wrote: »

OP, thing is, if you buy a new car tomorrow this time next year it will be worth 20% less than you paid for it. You'd need to be putting c€5k per annum into your old car just to beep pace with the depreciation of a modest new one.

yes but you would have a new car and some people think that it worth a certain premium.
In relation to the OP, the accord has depreciated too. How much did you buy it for, how long have you had it and whats it worth now? That depreciation could easily be 2.5k per year over the years you have had it even if bought well used. Add to that the repairs and the heavy enough tax, and you are not a millions miles away from the depreciation on a new car of similar standard.
For example, it costs about 4.5k depreciation per year to keep a new passat every 3 years. That is not crazy money and I think if the full running costs of a car are added up, the cost difference between running and old and new are much less than people would think.

fricatus

Thanks all for the replies. TBH I'm not even thinking of changing it - the way things are, I'm just going to have to keep driving it. It's well built, in great nick and will do many more miles, whatever happens. My wife is is ahead of me in the queue for a newer car anyway!

I suppose I asked the question more out of interest than anything - i.e. whether people have any rules of thumb that they apply when making the decision to move to a newer car.

@jomoloney - yes, it's main dealer servicing.

Tea 1000

Deleted User wrote: »

The joys of modern diesels !

AFAIK isn't the NCT going to start checking for people who remove the DPF ?

In fairness, any car out there with 183k miles on the clock is highly likely to need something done that'll come close to 1k in cost.

Old diesel

tagoona wrote: »

Faced with the same question myself at the moment.
04 Mazda 6 2L diesel with 183K on the clock.
Was going fine, but last couple of months, power has been down.
Mechanic announced last week that DMF is on the way out.
It;s going to cost the bones of 1k to fix a car worth about 2.5 K.
For me, that's the time to change the car. Big repairs on small value car, with no guarantee of future reliability in relation to other parts of the car.
Gutted really. I liked my mazda

To be frank with you - if you've managed to knock 183,000 miles out of a Mazda 6 diesel - then you've done marvellously well.

These don't have a great reputation at all - so sadly replacing it is the right way to go.

The 2 litre common rail diesel from Mazda was a disaster of an engine - something to bear in mind if you were thinking of going for the same again.

If yours has been very good - then you've been really really lucky

The later 2.2s aren't as bad - but im still not convinced they are overly brilliant.

On a happier note - keep an eye on the bangernomics tread on here - some nice cars can be got now for small money

Old diesel

fricatus wrote: »

Hi,

I have a 2005 Honda Accord 2.2 diesel with 136,000 miles on the clock. It's running well and still feels well screwed together.

I've just had a service done, including discs and pads all around, a front caliper, and some sort of ball joint or strut in the front suspension (which needed to be done on account of the NCT - to be retested this weekend).

The whole lot has cost me €1,000, which is painful enough coming up to Christmas. Of course if I could keep yearly repairs and servicing to about that amount, then with road tax and insurance, she's only costing me about €2,500 a year, before diesel, which is not bad for the 20,000 miles a year that I do. I don't envisage changing it for some time yet.

However my question is this: at what point is it a waste to be throwing money into an old car with high mileage? What are the pointers that tell you that it's time to give up and change up?

There isn't anything inherently wrong with spending 1 grand on a car like yours. Thing to bear in mind is that to upgrade to a car like yours - would cost a lot more potentially - if you wanted to come up a few years.

If you got another 2, 3 or 4 years out of your car now before changing - then id say its 1,000 euros very very well spent.

Id say that theres no hard and fast rule on when you should change - some will change when car is unreliable. Others will use the it needs a massive repair compared to car value type idea.

While some of us may decide they like a particular car a lot - so will take the risk of putting money on it rather then change.

In short - if the Accords now going well after repairs - id keep driving it - and enjoying it.

You could decide if you wished to start saving for a replacement - to ease the financial pain of doing so when the time comes

I know that contradicts my post earlier to the chap with the Mazda 6 diesel - but the Mazda 6 diesel are very poor - so different scenario.

Tea 1000

Tea 1000 wrote: »

In fairness, any car out there with 183k miles on the clock is highly likely to need something done that'll come close to 1k in cost.

Not the Prius, maybe our 13 year old crv.

Though anything can happen, its unlikely the Prius will need any major repairs for the life of the car.

Idbatterim

what the repairs cost is largely going to be determined by where you are getting the parts and who you get to do the work! My mechanic changed rear discs and pads for E60. Just got the parts myself in rathgar motor factors...

was going to say, now that you have spent the 1k, Id hang onto it, otherwise, what was the point in getting the work done...

Old diesel

Tea 1000 wrote: »

In fairness, any car out there with 183k miles on the clock is highly likely to need something done that'll come close to 1k in cost.

yes - but with a lot of cars - you could consider taking the hit and paying the 1,000 euros - and taking the gamble.

With the Mazda 6 diesel - its a miracle imo that its made it to 183,000 miles in the first place.

If its still on the original engine - its probably set a new record for highest mileage Mazda 2 litre common rail diesel engine ever

Tea 1000

Deleted User wrote: »

Not the Prius, maybe our 13 year old crv.

Though anything can happen, its unlikely the Prius will need any major repairs for the life of the car.

I'd put my money on the CRV over the Prius. Time will tell I guess!

Old diesel wrote: »

yes - but with a lot of cars - you could consider taking the hit and paying the 1,000 euros - and taking the gamble.

With the Mazda 6 diesel - its a miracle imo that its made it to 183,000 miles in the first place.

If its still on the original engine - its probably set a new record for highest mileage Mazda 2 litre common rail diesel engine ever

Not at all. Many went bang, but not all of them. Boards has been slating them for years, but they're not all bad. If there was even 20% failure then it's far too much, but that still means 80% didn't fail. You seem to think that 99.9% of them failed, which is just not the case.
Same with the BMW timing chain. There are a hell of a lot of BMW diesels out there still running fine.

Old diesel

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I'd put my money on the CRV over the Prius. Time will tell I guess!


Not at all. Many went bang, but not all of them. Boards has been slating them for years, but they're not all bad. If there was even 20% failure then it's far too much, but that still means 80% didn't fail. You seem to think that 99.9% of them failed, which is just not the case.
Same with the BMW timing chain. There are a hell of a lot of BMW diesels out there still running fine.

Fair points - but it seems rare to see any with 200 k miles plus on the clock - so I suspect 183,000 is towards the top of the scale in terms of Mazda 6 diesel longevity.

The other thing of course is that they do have well known issues - its not just the infamous blow up at 80,000 odd miles thing either.

The DPFs give a lot of trouble in them - when fitted - as well from what I understand - and its apparently very hard to bypass the DPF on the Mazdas.

But in general - all reports you hear about them - and its not just boards.ie either - generally tend to be negative ones.

To quote someone on another forum "its not a matter of it it will break - but it will break" (my italics).

I did hear of someone who had a company one which he claimed did over 120,000 miles in the 4 years he had it without issue - but that's the only one ive heard off

While your points in relation to my post that you've quoted are valid ones - I still stand by the points made in response to the chap with the 183,000 mile Mazda 6 diesel - ie selling is probably the right option - and I still reckon overall - they are a disaster of an engine.

Others here with vastly more knowledge and experience then I have will confirm that they are a disaster (I think)

Tea 1000

Old diesel wrote: »

Fair points - but it seems rare to see any with 200 k miles plus on the clock - so I suspect 183,000 is towards the top of the scale in terms of Mazda 6 diesel longevity.

The other thing of course is that they do have well known issues - its not just the infamous blow up at 80,000 odd miles thing either.

The DPFs give a lot of trouble in them - when fitted - as well from what I understand - and its apparently very hard to bypass the DPF on the Mazdas.

But in general - all reports you hear about them - and its not just boards.ie either - generally tend to be negative ones.

To quote someone on another forum "its not a matter of it it will break - but it will break" (my italics).

I did hear of someone who had a company one which he claimed did over 120,000 miles in the 4 years he had it without issue - but that's the only one ive heard off

While your points in relation to my post that you've quoted are valid ones - I still stand by the points made in response to the chap with the 183,000 mile Mazda 6 diesel - ie selling is probably the right option - and I still reckon overall - they are a disaster of an engine.

Others here with vastly more knowledge and experience then I have will confirm that they are a disaster (I think)

I've had one with well over 100k miles a few years back and no problem. My mate had one with over 160k miles and no problem. The 80k mile big-end bearing either happened or didn't. If it didn't, then you have an engine that's no better or worse than most others.
DPF's are a balls on everything. Earlier 6's didn't have them.
EGR's are a bit of an issue, but take them out and clean them and they should be sound.

Old diesel

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I've had one with well over 100k miles a few years back and no problem. My mate had one with over 160k miles and no problem. The 80k mile big-end bearing either happened or didn't. If it didn't, then you have an engine that's no better or worse than most others.
DPF's are a balls on everything. Earlier 6's didn't have them.
EGR's are a bit of an issue, but take them out and clean them and they should be sound.

The DPFs are a bigger issue then usual on Mazdas due to how the DPF on Mazdas work. My understanding is that extra fuel is pumped in somewhere when the DPF is regenerating - and this fuel gets into where it shouldn't - it gets mixed in with the oil.

This dilutes oil supply and I understand that this has led to engine failure on DPF equipped Mazda 6 2 litre diesels.

in fact I understand many of the later 6 diesels have an x mark on the dipstick so owners can take action if oil levels raise too high.

Action being to get oil changed (and if needed - any DPF problems addressed).

Anyway I never claimed 99.9 percent of them "failed" - I just reckoned that its a miracle that one of these cars would make it to 183,000 miles.

Just an opinion - and my apologies if you interpretated it as fact.

The points you made are perfectly valid ones - and im pleased that there are Mazda 6 2 litre diesels out there that have run well for their owners and not given issues.

But the reality is that by most standards - these are a poor engine generally for reliability and durability.

Would love to know the actual failure rate out of interest - im far from being a car expert - im just an enthusiast who loves cars - and reads up on them.

The general consensus has tended to be from what I have read/heard - is that it is a case of when rather then if - they will break.

I may be wrong though - and im always happy to concede im wrong when I am :)

Old diesel

jomoloney wrote: »

no experience of honda, but that milage is small enough, @ 20k miles per would be hoping for a few years yet

was it a main dealer, cos a €1k seems pricey for the work done

we have a primera dsl with about 280 k miles , 5 years ago was offered €1k for it on trade in, other than maintance it has cost about €1k on repairs since

Not a bad outcome - 1 k in repairs doesn't sound amazing - but the most the car itself could have cost in depreciation was 1,000 euros - so your still way ahead of the depreciation alone on a much newer car.

What years the Primera??? (been nosey want to know what generation it is)

JohnBoy26

Deleted User wrote: »

Not the Prius, maybe our 13 year old crv.

Though anything can happen, its unlikely the Prius will need any major repairs for the life of the car.

Last time I checked, the prius had brakes, shock absorbers and all other consumables just like any car. These will all need changing at some stage in the vehicle's lifetime.

I fail to see how a prius could cost less in major repair s over it's lifetime compared to a late 90's crv.

I say this because those old crvs are one of the most reliable vehicles out there and they are well proven. You will have to change the consumables like any car but outside of that they are pretty much as good as it gets.

JohnBoy26

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I've had one with well over 100k miles a few years back and no problem. My mate had one with over 160k miles and no problem. The 80k mile big-end bearing either happened or didn't. If it didn't, then you have an engine that's no better or worse than most others.
DPF's are a balls on everything. Earlier 6's didn't have them.
EGR's are a bit of an issue, but take them out and clean them and they should be sound.

While you and your mate may not have encountered any issues with ye're 6s unfortunately that isn't the case with most.

I'm with old diesel on this one, Tbh they are a dreadful engine, id nearly go as far as to say one of the worst diesels ever made. You just have to look at all the threads on the internet about them(including on here) to know just how bad they are.

Old diesel

Sorry for taking the tread off topic.

Right - back to the question of when to cut your losses on a car.

Most cars on the road are better for reliability then the Mazda 6 2 litre diesel.

So taking that out of the equation - some general points that warrant been made

First thing to be noted is that spending 1,000 euros on a service or repairs on say the likes of an 03 Passat - is still much cheaper then buying a newer Passat - incurring the cost of changing to the newer car, the depreciation on the newer car etc.

If you purchase a brand new Passat - it lose a considerable sum of money in depreciation - the moment its registered in your name - this is (obviously) because its no longer brand new - and is 2nd hand.

Even if you've never sat in it.

Another critical factor is the reliability of the overall car or its likely future reliability - based on what is known about that make and model of car with the specific engine you have in it - this is why ive answered the same or a very similar question to 2 different posters completely on the basis that 1 poster was asking in relation to a Honda Accord and the other a Mazda 6 diesel. Admittedly the Honda had already had the work done - but even if it had been the other way round - Honda needed 1 grand spend on it - and the Mazda had its repairs done - id have answered the same way - I would say that it would be worth considering addressing the issues on the Accord - and id still be saying you should cut your losses with the Mazda and buy something more reliable

With a well minded 03 Passat - theres a reasonable chance that if the cars currently reliable and running well - it could continue doing so - so considering that your saving money on new car purchase and depreciation for as long as the Passat stays on the road - its well worth taking the risk of continuing to run it - if your main worry is the financial side of things.

Even if you have to put money into repairs from time to time - if the car continues to be reliable and give good service - then repairs on a good reliable car will often be a lot less then changing cars.

Bear in mind too - that if you buy a car new - you will again be faced with the option after say 60 to 100,000 miles of fixing items on the newer car that you are now worried about replacing on the older car - or paying considerable money again to upgrade.

The rule of thumb that's often used by some is to look at cost of repairs vs value of car.

That frequently works well - and makes sense in that - why put 1300 euros into a car only worth 1500 euros - if you can get a fully working, good condition replacement car of same make and model that doesn't need the repairs yours does - for 1500 euros.

Where it falls down (imo) is when your selling the older car when it needs work that a lower mileage and newer car would also need - for example - 4 new tyres, a timing belt - or some new brakes.

These are serviceable items - the sort of things a 4 year old car would also need - so for example - you have to ask yourself - what is the logic of ditching the 600 euro Corolla because it needs a new timing belt - even though the rest of the car is perfect - and then going off and spending 10 grand on a car that needs a new timing belt in 10,000 miles due to mileage.

Even if your into bangernomics - if you've got a 600 euro Corolla needing a few bits like timing belt - if the cars generally in very good condition - it may be worth considering that it may be better to change the timing belt and breaks on a car that's in generally in very good condition and is been very reliable for you at the moment.

You could end up changing to another car - which may not be as reliable.

In short theres no hard and fast rules here

amandaf675

I dont think you should get rid of the car, as already stated, newer doesn't mean better!

I, myself, have a 98 Toyota Glanza 1.3 turbo, which i bough in 2012, went for its nct this September and only failed on a tire, a bulb and a rear light lens that was cracked! When i nct'd it, i had been driving it for a year, up and down from Wexford to Dublin every second week, it got alot of mileage, and the only thing that went wrong was a rear shock burst (down to the roads i drive on). The car was serviced when it needs to be etc, but any car needs that.

Honda, as a car have a good reputation! As someone who would be around alot of older hondas, i never see them having any major problems except the ones not looked after but like above, that comes the same with any car!

Truckermal

I can't fathom out why you needed new pads and disc's all around. I have a car from almost new with similar mileage and only changed the rear pads recently and there is another 10k kms on the front plus the discs are perfect.

Also a grand sounds fairly steep unless you went to a main dealer. .

JohnBoy26

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Last time I checked, the prius had brakes, shock absorbers and all other consumables just like any car. These will all need changing at some stage in the vehicle's lifetime.

I fail to see how a prius could cost less in major repair s over it's lifetime compared to a late 90's crv.

I say this because those old crvs are one of the most reliable vehicles out there and they are well proven. You will have to change the consumables like any car but outside of that they are pretty much as good as it gets.

Sure it does and it may very we'll suffer suspension problems, who knows with the roads I drive on.

The crv is really great for the age, really good body engine, the suspension needed work, but on a 13 year old car I couldn't care less, it's a great little car and great over bad roads. Cost us 1700 euro 1 year 7 months ago.

Honda parts are insanely expensive though.

grainnewhale

Deleted User wrote: »

The joys of modern diesels !

AFAIK isn't the NCT going to start checking for people who remove the DPF ?

Its the d.m.f

Old diesel

grainnewhale wrote: »

Its the d.m.f

Welcome to boards Grainne and to the motors section:) (I see your new so thought id show some manners)

grainnewhale

Old diesel wrote: »

Welcome to boards Grainne and to the motors section:) (I see your new so thought id show some manners)

Thanks for that.