Worcester Greenstar Boiler issue

v10

I have a newly installed Worcester Greenstar 30CDi Classic Gas boiler that's giving me a problem, maybe someone here can help ..

Basically it cuts out now and again, it's happened 5 times or so in the last week.

It gives 'EA' error on display, and needs to be reset in order to restart. Problem is it usually takes several attempts to restart, making strange noise while trying.

I've uploaded a video of the boiler attempting to restart below. I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Have a listen to the noise it makes at 19 seconds and 35 seconds. This noise sounds far worse in reality and feels like the boiler is vibrating off the wall !.

Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ADKpzocc0

roy rodgers

Is that a gurgling noise coming from it??
To me its not the boiler but the way is installed. The condense sounds like it is blocked (or the trap not fitted)
Either way who ever installed it will have to come back to it.
Just at the back of the manual there is a benchmark that should be filled in. What reading of the co% on it.

JohnnieK

I agree with Roy. If it's recently installed the installer has to come back to it.

shane0007

Agree, but you can also hear it sparking but no flame establishing. Gas valve, fan issue?
Very hard to tell as a very strange swishing sound.

MiniGolf

v10 wrote: »

I have a newly installed Worcester Greenstar 30CDi Classic Gas boiler that's giving me a problem, maybe someone here can help ..

Basically it cuts out now and again, it's happened 5 times or so in the last week.

It gives 'EA' error on display, and needs to be reset in order to restart. Problem is it usually takes several attempts to restart, making strange noise while trying.

I've uploaded a video of the boiler attempting to restart below. I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Have a listen to the noise it makes at 19 seconds and 35 seconds. This noise sounds far worse in reality and feels like the boiler is vibrating off the wall !.

Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ADKpzocc0

EA is a fault code associated with flame failure usually due to gas supply issues. I can't really tell what the noises are as I watched it on my phone. If the sound of running water is from the boiler the system needs to be bled properly. The noise is possibly from the pump due to air in the system. I have never had a problem like that with a Worcester Bosch boiler that I installed. Where are you located? You need to get the installer back ASAP!

JohnnieK

It sounds like it's full of condensation.

sullzz

v10 wrote: »

I have a newly installed Worcester Greenstar 30CDi Classic Gas boiler that's giving me a problem

What did your installer say when you rang him. ?

MiniGolf

JohnnieK wrote: »

It sounds like it's full of condensation.

I have just listened to it again and id say you are spot on JohnnieK! Don't use the boiler until that is sorted!

shane0007

By jaysus, if it is that's a hell of a lot of condensate! They are a down firing boiler, aren't they?

Well spotted JK.

roy rodgers

shane0007 wrote: »

By jaysus, if it is that's a hell of a lot of condensate! They are a down firing boiler, aren't they?

Well spotted JK.

Excuse me i said condense first...

A favourite one why the condense is blocked is condense pipe is drilled straight into the ground or they haven't fitted the condense trap and left the blank on.

These boilers are bullet proof it has to be an installation problem.

JohnnieK

roy rodgers wrote: »

Excuse me i said condense first...

A favourite one why the condense is blocked is condense pipe is drilled straight into the ground or they haven't fitted the condense trap and left the blank on.

These boilers are bullet proof it has to be an installation problem.

A lot to be said for an air break on the line.

shane0007

roy rodgers wrote: »

Excuse me i said condense first...

A favourite one why the condense is blocked is condense pipe is drilled straight into the ground or they haven't fitted the condense trap and left the blank on.

These boilers are bullet proof it has to be an installation problem.

That you did, that you did. I take it all back from JK.

Don't you just hate when people steal your glory (or phrases \0/, not looking at any particular mod.....)

roy rodgers

shane0007 wrote: »

That you did, that you did. I take it all back from JK.

Don't you just hate when people steal your glory (or phrases \0/, not looking at any particular mod.....)

Hmmmm

shane0007

roy rodgers wrote: »

Hmmmm

I only use that one so much 'cos I know how much Gary loves reading it.....

DGOBS

hmmm....

but +1 on the condensate, drag back your installer by the ear...

v10

Thanks lads, yes, it appears that it was full of condensation.

I removed the black pipe from the white pipe (see image) and about a litre of water came out. It then started no problem without any unusual noise.

I ran it for an hour and took another half litre or so of water out again, so it seems it can't drain the condensation.

The white pipe in the image joins a washing machine waste down below and a couple of metres to the left of the boiler.

For those that are asking, I have had the installer out already and he said he fixed it (said something was blocked) but it only lasted a few days. I'm now waiting on him to come back again !

shane0007

Looks like he should be doing a bit of re-wiring too. You cannot fit electrical cables cable tied to pipework. They should be clipped to the wall with wire clips.

Egass13

God that's rough . Is that a 15mm gas feed aswell ?

v10

Egass13 wrote: »

God that's rough . Is that a 15mm gas feed aswell ?

yes it's 15mm .. What should it be ?

shane0007

3/4" but it might be 3/4" in wall & tailed up in 1/2".
You would need to know the gas working pressure of the boiler when the boiler is in forced high fire & with all other gas appliances in full also.
The gas working pressure is checked at the meter with everything on, should be between 19 & 23mbar. Then compare to the working pressure at the boiler. A maximum allowed loss is 1mbar so if meter was 20mbar, lowest boiler can be is 19mbar.

MiniGolf

v10 wrote: »

yes it's 15mm .. What should it be ?

On a WB boiler it should be 3/4" all the way. Due to internal pipe work on the gas train in a WB you can have as low as 16.5mb at the test nipple on full fire.
As per other posters... That is a rough looking install! I would be less than happy if he did that for me.

shane0007

MiniGolf wrote: »

in a WB you can have as low as 16.5mb at the test nipple on full fire.

Regs would not allow that low as the maximum pressure loss across pipework is 1mbar, so it would be a NOH.
I agree though many boilers will happily work away at low working pressures due to under-sized pipework, but when gas rating them, will it be within the -10% kwh output? If not, another NOH offence.

v10

shane0007 wrote: »

NOH

Whats NOH ?

Worcester technician came out and looked at it today, confirmed it could not drain the condense, reckoned the pipe didn't flow well or something, advised to have installer check the pipe.

Also said the pressure was 15? mbar I think, said it would be ok but just noted it.

I'm not happy now.:mad:

MiniGolf

shane0007 wrote: »

Regs would not allow that low as the maximum pressure loss across pipework is 1mbar, so it would be a NOH.
I agree though many boilers will happily work away at low working pressures due to under-sized pipework, but when gas rating them, will it be within the -10% kwh output? If not, another NOH offence.

I didn't want to get too involved and technical as this is the public forum but see below:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94934419@N07/11090774496/

(Sorry, but can't seem to post directly to Boards!!)

shane0007

NOH = Notice Of Hazard.

It must be issued to the homeowner whenever there is a noted hazard or non-compliance of current regulations.

The NOH is handed to the homeowner, a copy kept by the issuing RGI & a copy sent to RGII. Then RGII writes to the homeowner advising them in writing that they should have the offending works corrected.

If the offending part of the installation is immediately dangerous, the appliance must have it's gas supply disconnected & capped. If it is not immediately dangerous, it can be left on but should be done as soon as is practical.

shane0007

MiniGolf wrote: »

I didn't want to get too involved and technical as this is the public forum but see below:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94934419@N07/11090774496/

(Sorry, but can't seem to post directly to Boards!!)

Yes, you are correct. There seems to be a further 1.5mbar loss from the boiler gas isolation valve to the gas valve.
Is the WB that restrictive between those points as that is a hell of a loss for such a short piece of pipework?
16.5mbar at the gas valve would only be allowed if the working pressure at the meter was only 19mbar though.

MiniGolf

shane0007 wrote: »

16.5mbar at the gas valve would only be allowed if the working pressure at the meter was only 19mbar though.

Yep! It's only there as the lowest permissible reading as per example given. I wouldn't be happy with it though!!

shane0007

Why is there such a pressure loss between the two points? 1.5mbar is enormous!

MiniGolf

shane0007 wrote: »

Why is there such a pressure loss between the two points? 1.5mbar is enormous!

Can't find a pic but.... Reduced pipe size internally and a good few sharp bends!!

JohnnieK

10sq earth not connected onto the gas pipe either.

Dtp1979

JohnnieK wrote: »

10sq earth not connected onto the gas pipe either.

And what'd he use to bend those pipes?? Looks like spring bending to me

v10

MiniGolf wrote: »

On a WB boiler it should be 3/4" all the way. Due to internal pipe work on the gas train in a WB you can have as low as 16.5mb at the test nipple on full fire.

Is 3/4" all the way normal for most boilers ? or are WB boilers different in this respect ? I only ask because the plumbing was already 1st fixed before I insisted on a WB boiler, so the plumber could argue that he installed 15mm not knowing it was to be a WB boiler ..

Also the boiler hasn't stopped since I shifted the white pipe down a bit so that the condense water doesn't build up, but some responses here have me concerned that the gas pressure is also too low ? What harm is this and what damage is it likely to cause ? .. changing the copper to 3/4 at this stage would involve digging up my new utility room :eek:

shane0007

3/4" should always be brought as close as is possible to the boiler. Depending on the boiler output, some require 1".
Most boiler connections are 1/2" but it should be 3/4" to that point.

v10

shane0007 wrote: »

3/4" should always be brought as close as is possible to the boiler. Depending on the boiler output, some require 1".
Most boiler connections are 1/2" but it should be 3/4" to that point.

and what harm if it isn't ?

shane0007

v10 wrote: »

and what harm if it isn't ?

Boiler will not be a 30kw when in high fire as it won't be receiving enough gas to produce 30kw.
Secondly, when in high fire, the fan speed will be set to 30kw so it will be over-aired so it can potentially affect combustion.
It will depend on the actual working pressure of the boiler compared to the working pressure at the meter.

v10

shane0007 wrote: »

Boiler will not be a 30kw when in high fire as it won't be receiving enough gas to produce 30kw.
Secondly, when in high fire, the fan speed will be set to 30kw so it will be over-aired so it can potentially affect combustion.
It will depend on the actual working pressure of the boiler compared to the working pressure at the meter.

Great, thanks for your answers, appreciate it. Just trying to educate myself a bit before I meet with the plumber !:D

smartbodydublin

I'm looking for quotes on a new gas boiler installation. There's an existing open fire backboiler heating system. Am looking at either keeping the hot water storage tank or going for a combi boiler. I have an electric mains fed shower and don't use much hot water.

Based on threads I've read on Boards.ie I'm wondering who to trust with with an install. Not sure if registered installers are all up too the grade. Amn't in a hurry at this point.

Recommendations welcomed from you helpful bunch as you seem to be conversant with installation specifications and implementation. I did cop your installers.

Small 3 bedroom corporation build circa 1940s. Dublin 12. Please pm numbers of competent installers near by. Thanks

shane0007

Are you wishing to keep the back boiler or de-commission it?

smartbodydublin

Thanks for getting back to me Shane. When you've time you might indulge long post and some of my confusion.

Any option I'm looking at would have the old boiler decommissioned or removed completely.

I'm not sure how to weight up the cost benefit of different options.

I started by wanting to get a back boiler stove plumbed into pipe work of old back boiler after it is removed. We loved the open fire but with colder weather more frequent I wanted to up the heat a bit and figured a stove boiler was way to go and much more efficient. A friend got me looking at the long term benefit of gas c.h.

I'm now strongly looking at gas combi for radiators circuit and hot water on tap.

Then looking to (maybe) fit 5kw inset or stand out non-boiler stove, as I understand I'd be ok up to 5kw without increased airflow into room.

Hope was to use gas c.h. for few hours and then turn off and use stove in living room with one door open to stairs to keep chill at bay. For the time being if I go gas c.h. may just decommission old boiler and stuff/seal flu.

We use/need very little on tap hot water so not sure if I'm served better with combi or system boiler with valve/zone control for storage tank. I'm simply not sure in the long run which is less expensive to live with and maintain. I'd guess the combi saves me in the short run but then have to pay more as more parts to wear and more to service.

But I'd be using the on tap heater very little so that section/part of boiler would likely last long time.?

Can on-tap heater section of combi boiler be switched off to stop wasteful use of water and gas if needs be? I fear what bills may look like in a few years.
I think I saw a knob on an Ideal combi model, that had option to turn off tap feed. Don't shoot me if I'm way off with how they may/need function. I only ever done basic diy gravity tank, pump swaps on old system. Am clueless on gas boiler options and functions.

Professional advice welcome. This is big decision and am slow to move as wont be able to change anything with heating system again in future.

shane0007

A combi would suit a low HW demand. You don't need to fit anything special to stop it using the combi side, just don't open a hot tap & it won't come on.

You could use a gas stove. I recently fitted a Valor gas stove, 89% efficient. Brilliant heat from it.

v10

Well lads this is how my plumber fixed it.

Thank god all this mess is hidden in a cupboard.