Pope wants feedback -- ideas?

robindch

Pope Frank has just published a 50,000 word document which he hopes will increase church membership. TheJournal noticed it here and the full text is here:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html

Irony is in short supply though:

Pope Frank, inviting people wrote:

The salvation which God has wrought, and the Church joyfully proclaims, is for everyone. [...] the principal aim of these participatory processes should not be ecclesiastical organization but rather the missionary aspiration of reaching everyone. [...] When we adopt a pastoral goal and a missionary style which would actually reach everyone without exception or exclusion [...] If the whole Church takes up this missionary impulse, she has to go forth to everyone without exception.[...] etc [...]

Pope Frank, wagging finger wrote:

The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits

Anyhow, does anybody have any ideas they'd like to lob back to the Vatican?

Delirium

• excommunicate all priests/bishops etc. who engaged in, or covered up, child abuse
• give all evidence/testimonies regarding sex abuse to relevant local authorities
• compensate all victims of abuse

Sarky

Whoah! Slow down koth. What else would you like, for the church to actually practice what it preaches!?

Gordon

He's up for chatting about stuff.. oh.. well.. except for dirty females getting their claws into being a priest..

The reservation of the priesthood to males, as a sign of Christ the Spouse who gives himself in the Eucharist, is not a question open to discussion

equivariant

My suggestion for Frankie boy: pay for a decent web designer. Talk about scroll of death (or should that be dead sea scroll (sorry:o))

Cabaal

I think I know why the document is 50,000 words,
Anyone that spends long enough on their website reading it will be automatically counted as a catholic, its likely in the website Terms & Conditions :P

This is how they'll increase their numbers,

[-0-]

Public apology for all victims of the church:

• kids who were abused by priests
• aids victims in Africa who couldn't get the contraceptives they needed
• gay people who had their basic human rights violated
• joe soap who couldn't have a pint on good Friday

smacl

• stop all this nonsense about there being God (c'mon now Ted, really?)
• show us how this water to wine thing works
• bring in a few new flavours of eucrisps (jeez and onion, bbq body of Christ)

Hotblack Desiato

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/why-are-ireland-s-catholic-bishops-dragging-their-heels-on-new-vatican-questionnaire-1.1606952

Preparations for the 2014 Extraordinary Synod of Bishops to be held in Rome on the theme of the family from October 5th to 19th, 2014, include a 39-item questionnaire to be distributed to all Catholic faithful.

The results of this questionnaire will form the basis of an agenda for a further synod in 2015.

However the Irish bishops’ conference has yet to decide on how to respond. The Dublin archdiocesan response is representative of the seeming indifference of Irish bishops in not facilitating or promoting a user-friendly approach to answering this significant questionnaire; its website containing the total Vatican document merely requests that any discussion, feedback or proposals should be emailed to communications@dublindiocese.”

There has not even been a Sunday Mass announcement about it.

Cabaal

ninja900 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/why-are-ireland-s-catholic-bishops-dragging-their-heels-on-new-vatican-questionnaire-1.1606952

seems they want to cover their ears and not listen to the torrent of abuse they'll get from Catholics in Ireland for how they've handled the sexual abuse stuff,

I know so many people esp of older ages (70's, 80's) who are really pissed with the church over the past few years and they've no respect for it anymore,

Czarcasm

robindch wrote: »

Irony is in short supply though:

Pope Frank, wagging finger:

The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits.

Anyhow, does anybody have any ideas they'd like to lob back to the Vatican?

This is one of the things about the RCC Hierarchy that actually bugs the shìt out of me tbh - The infathomable greed and their reluctance to part with any of their vast wealth, yet they will ask their congregation to contribute what little THEY have.

I posted this before in another thread in AH. The rest of the corruption and so forth can be dealt with (though it may be time for the Church to invest in a PR machine, one man on his own can't undo centuries of scandals and improprieties) -

Czarcasm wrote: »

Hmm, trivial but not just annoying, pissed me off a fair bit actually as it's something I'd never experienced before -

I was just in mass there, not my usual Church, but they passed around the baskets, and in nearly 20 years I'd say I've never given anything into it*, just passed it on to the next person. Nobody's ever questioned me on it.

But today this particular chap was collecting the baskets when he stopped and asked me "Have you contributed?", I was a little taken aback by the question, but answered "No", and what followed could only be described as a "stare-off" where he expected me to put my hand in my pocket. Obviously after a minute of this he realised I wasn't budging, and moved on.

"Dad you're so embarrassing!" said my young lad beside me.

"Son" I replied, "Look around you, do they look like they actually need the money?".


Just for shìts 'n' giggles then I took a look at their newsletter under "Financial Matters" and noticed under "Last Weeks Collection" - €3,709...

And this is only a Church in a small town!


*I haven't given any financial assistance to the Church because I honestly don't believe they need it. It's just my own personal thing that I'd congregate in a haybarn and it wouldn't bother me, I find all the ornate finery quite distasteful and tacky and it'd do the Church no harm to practice the poverty and humility of which they preach!

If they need to raise money that badly - like any business they should sell off some of their vast assets instead of attempting to pilfer their congregation.



/rant

Christ that was more like a sermon than a short trivial annoyance :pac:

Benny_Cake

Czarcasm wrote: »

I posted this before in another thread in AH. The rest of the corruption and so forth can be dealt with (though it may be time for the Church to invest in a PR machine, one man on his own can't undo centuries of scandals and improprieties) -

I actually like what Francis has to say about poverty and the good work that some individuals and organisations connected with the church have done on issues relating to poverty. But good PR is quite going to cut it at this point. It's interesting to note that Mass attendance in a number of countries is up since Francis took office. Apparently the one glaring exception is Ireland, and it isn't difficult to see why.

Between the abuse scandals and the stance the church takes on a number of social issues which affect peoples lives, a PR job isn't going to do the trick. Genuine repentance and paying out the compensation they owe would be a start.

Good point about all the wealth and finery btw.

goose2005

Make shorter statements.

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Irony is in short supply though:Anyhow, does anybody have any ideas they'd like to lob back to the Vatican?

"We ask for god to show an absolutely undeniable sign, to be verified by an independant body (e.g. Atheist Ireland), of his existence and we give him 5 years to make that sign. If it doesn't happen we will admit our mistake, sell all our churches and artworks and spend the rest of our lives and all our wealth genuinely looking after the poor and needy."

Brian Shanahan

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I actually like what Francis has to say about poverty and the good work that some individuals and organisations connected with the church have done on issues relating to poverty.

I don't. It's the same mealy mouthed hypocracy as was spouted by all the previous popes as they were busy gathering as much wealth as possible into the Lateran palace.

pauldla

Hold the guitar in front of the amp and turn up the volume. His Holiness is doing it wrong, no doubt.

ectoraige

Hand over everything they own to the poor, perhaps keep the shirt on their back.

MrPudding

My suggestion: look up the word irony on a dictionary.

MrP

sbsquarepants

Get that bloke from cash in the attic round - there's bound to be a right few bob stashed away in that big old gaf:D

who the fug

As the Pope and the Church are there to serve God should they not be asking him , not us

zl1whqvjs75cdy

1. No more child sexual abuse.
2. No more treating half the worlds population as second glass citizens
3. Acceptance of gay people

Really if the church just did exactly what Jesus said everything would be golden, but maybe all that love thy neighbor stuff is open to interpretation (much like they claim the old testament is). So maybe love thy neighbor really means that priests should sexually assault children, cover it up and then totally ignore it when it becomes public knowledge.

Brian Shanahan

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Really if the church just did exactly what Jesus said everything would be golden.

What did Jesus say? Remeber we're going on a book that was written betweeen 100 and 400 years after his alleged death, by people who never met him, and which has more versions than words.

Hotblack Desiato

Cabaal wrote: »

seems they want to cover their ears and not listen to the torrent of abuse they'll get from Catholics in Ireland for how they've handled the sexual abuse stuff,

I know so many people esp of older ages (70's, 80's) who are really pissed with the church over the past few years and they've no respect for it anymore,

Most of them probably still going to mass 'to be seen' or meet their peers or out of habit though... and I doubt they'd take your stance on the collection either!

There's a generation of both priests and parishoners who, let's not beat around the bush here, will be dead in ten or twenty years and after that, the RCC in Ireland will be a pale shadow of what it is now. We will never see justice for the scandals but we will see the influence and power of that church in this country decline dramatically and not one moment too soon.

oldrnwisr

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

1. No more child sexual abuse.
2. No more treating half the worlds population as second glass citizens
3. Acceptance of gay people

Really if the church just did exactly what Jesus said everything would be golden, but maybe all that love thy neighbor stuff is open to interpretation (much like they claim the old testament is). So maybe love thy neighbor really means that priests should sexually assault children, cover it up and then totally ignore it when it becomes public knowledge.

Really?

You really think following Jesus' example is a good way to go?

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10:34-37

In a way I'm glad that people now are able to live by a moral code of their own choosing. At least this way we won't end up back in the Dark Ages.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Hmmm I am quite ignorant of jesus in general. I can now see he was a grade A bollox. Cheers lads!

MetalDog

Re-start the formal defection process. That would be a good one.

Popinjay

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Really?

You really think following Jesus' example is a good way to go?

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn

‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10:34-37

In a way I'm glad that people now are able to live by a moral code of their own choosing. At least this way we won't end up back in the Dark Ages.

Three people outright refused to believe me when I quoted this to them last week. Have to get a new bible for the house.

Sarky

Maybe the pope could sort out some global policy for sterilising holy water? That stuff is nasty.

Doctor Strange

Popinjay wrote: »

Three people outright refused to believe me when I quoted this to them last week. Have to get a new bible for the house.

I always find it funnier when I have a more in-depth knowledge of the bible than those that claim to follow it's word.

Lapin

Why would someone exempt from the possibility of error need to ask anyone for ideas?

Surely with his infallibility he's right no matter what he does.

Even if he's wrong.




Right ?

shruikan2553

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

I always find it funnier when I have a more in-depth knowledge of the bible than those that claim to follow it's word.

How to tell if someone is an atheist: They understand your religion.

Trying to explain to my family that they are supposed to believe in transubstantiation was fun.

"Why would anyone believe in that?" they said. I dont know, I'm the one that calls them self atheist because I dont believe that crap.