Any widebody TATL ex SNN for 2014?

Stinicker

Live in Kerry and am currently pricing flights to New York for next April, my choices direct are United, Delta and Aer Lingus all of which will be Boeing 757's afaik.

Is the Aer Lingus 757 from SNN a year round thing or will the JFK run revert to A330 for the summer? I've flown both United and Delta before on the 757 and am not really a fan and would rather take the A330 widebody anyday. I am also thinking of flying BA from Heathrow via Cork, I'd rather go in a single hop from SNN but I'm not going to give 6.5hours again in a 757 transatlantic.

highlydebased

Stinicker wrote: »

Live in Kerry and am currently pricing flights to New York for next April, my choices direct are United, Delta and Aer Lingus all of which will be Boeing 757's afaik.

Is the Aer Lingus 757 from SNN a year round thing or will the JFK run revert to A330 for the summer? I've flown both United and Delta before on the 757 and am not really a fan and would rather take the A330 widebody anyday. I am also thinking of flying BA from Heathrow via Cork, I'd rather go in a single hop from SNN but I'm not going to give 6.5hours again in a 757 transatlantic.

Looks like EI will fly the 757 permanently from SNN I'm afraid

Jamie2k9

Why not go on the A330/B767 from Dublin

Stinicker

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why not go on the A330/B767 from Dublin

Its quicker to fly from Cork to Heathrow and connect there than go overland by bus or train from where I live in Kerry. I only fly from Dublin when there is a large financial saving to do so or when it cuts out a 2nd stop when going to Asia or Australia, eg. flying Etihad or Emirates.

The_Wanderer

Fly from Kerry at 0730 or 1230 to DUB on EI-R and connect into EI105 / EI109 to JFK. It can be done for about €20-€25 extra each way compared to flying from Dublin. Certainly cheaper than car / bus / train.

ProfessorPlum

Also worth factoring in the time saved by pre clearing in Dublin or Shannon, rather than arriving ex LHR and having perhaps a couple of hours at immigration.

basill

Fly east to get off and clear immigration and get bags (presuming your doing point to point ticketing) and trudge across to T5. Then check in, clear security again and wait around to board your BA flight which will be 7.5 to 8.5 hours to JFK going back over Ireland where you left from. Then get off into an international terminal behind lord only knows who else has arrived and clear CBP.

Or pay whatever extra and go direct from a choice of 2 different airports with a number of different carriers.

You must value your time cheap.

murphym7

basill wrote: »

Fly east to get off and clear immigration and get bags (presuming your doing point to point ticketing) and trudge across to T5. Then check in, clear security again and wait around to board your BA flight which will be 7.5 to 8.5 hours to JFK going back over Ireland where you left from. Then get off into an international terminal behind lord only knows who else has arrived and clear CBP.

Or pay whatever extra and go direct from a choice of 2 different airports with a number of different carriers.

You must value your time cheap.

Not true, you do not clear immigration in Heathrow from Irish flights. Heathrow is not a big deal, I don't know why people are so freaked out about it. It used to be horrific to navigate through, it’s a piece of piss now and is still suffering from a reputation earned years ago.

ProfessorPlum

murphym7 wrote: »

Not true, you do not clear immigration in Heathrow from Irish flights. Heathrow is not a big deal, I don't know why people are so freaked out about it. It used to be horrific to navigate through, it’s a piece of piss now and is still suffering from a reputation earned years ago.

True, you don't clear immigration, but you do have to clear customs, change terminal, and go through security again in the UK. On top of all that, CBP in the US can be a nightmare - standing in a line for 2 hours after a long day travelling. Arriving in the US as a domestic passenger ex Ireland is worth a lot.

basill

And you wonder why the people of Cork give out all the time about their lack of connectivity when they would rather support BA. Rather than drive up to SNN or DUB they prefer to heading east to go west. Makes no sense whatsoever as stated above. Anyone with common sense will be tucked up in bed before the sun comes up on the early morning arrival back from JFK whilst the intrepid travellers are enjoying a bus ride through connections or waiting for an early morning BA flight back west to Dublin where they would have flown over 2 hours previously.

TPMP

No brainer if it was me. Shannon all the way. Its only a 6 hour flight.

Each to their own though.

murphym7

basill wrote: »

And you wonder why the people of Cork give out all the time about their lack of connectivity when they would rather support BA. Rather than drive up to SNN or DUB they prefer to heading east to go west. Makes no sense whatsoever as stated above. Anyone with common sense will be tucked up in bed before the sun comes up on the early morning arrival back from JFK whilst the intrepid travellers are enjoying a bus ride through connections or waiting for an early morning BA flight back west to Dublin where they would have flown over 2 hours previously.

I wouldn’t be tucked up in bed though would I???. I would be getting a train, bus or driving to Cork or I would be embarking on a drive from Shannon at stupid O’clock half asleep.. Alternatively I fly to Cork airport and get a taxi the 5 minutes to my house.

Listen it works for me and might I add thousands of others from Cork to go through Heathrow. If I lived in Dublin or Limerick I would fly Aer lingus, obviously.

I will add though, I fly East coast of the states maybe twice a year. I fly a dozen times each year to the West coast, Heathrow suits me and I am used to it. Driving to Shannon or Dublin doesn’t.

When I go to Minnesota I go through Amsterdam, that will probably make your head explode regarding the whole fly East to go West madness!!!!

Each to their own and it’s got nothing to do with me supporting BA/Virgin over Aer Lingus or complaining about Cork connectivity. It’s about what is less hassle for me. I actually find Cork very well connected for my personal and business needs. I need Cork to get me to Heathrow, Schiphol and Faro – it does and I am happy.

@ProfessorPlum: Never been stopped in 100's of flights by cutoms in Heathrow from a Cork flight. It is a complete non event. You are outside smoking within 5 minutes of landing. If stay on the back of the plane its just secruity at T5.

tricky D

Each to their own.

But from my own recent experience, I'll never fly BA and via LHR again if I can help it. When it goes wrong, boy does it go wrong and you get really appalling customer service (lies, pfo's, non responses) -5/10.

Fabio

murphym7 wrote: »

I wouldn’t be tucked up in bed though would I???. I would be getting a train, bus or driving to Cork or I would be embarking on a drive from Shannon at stupid O’clock half asleep.. Alternatively I fly to Cork airport and get a taxi the 5 minutes to my house.

Listen it works for me and might I add thousands of others from Cork to go through Heathrow. If I lived in Dublin or Limerick I would fly Aer lingus, obviously.

I will add though, I fly East coast of the states maybe twice a year. I fly a dozen times each year to the West coast, Heathrow suits me and I am used to it. Driving to Shannon or Dublin doesn’t.

When I go to Minnesota I go through Amsterdam, that will probably make your head explode regarding the whole fly East to go West madness!!!!

Each to their own and it’s got nothing to do with me supporting BA/Virgin over Aer Lingus or complaining about Cork connectivity. It’s about what is less hassle for me. I actually find Cork very well connected for my personal and business needs. I need Cork to get me to Heathrow, Schiphol and Faro – it does and I am happy.

@ProfessorPlum: Never been stopped in 100's of flights by cutoms in Heathrow from a Cork flight. It is a complete non event. You are outside smoking within 5 minutes of landing. If stay on the back of the plane its just secruity at T5.

This just shows that Cork could do with a connecting flight to Dublin with Aer Lingus Regional which would shuttle you right to the US flights. I think you sued to be able to do this?

yew_tree

I never found a problem flying 757 across the pond. Would we even class DUB or SNN to JFK/NEW as long haul? I found United very good but as you say everyone has their own personal choice.

kub

Fabio wrote: »

This just shows that Cork could do with a connecting flight to Dublin with Aer Lingus Regional which would shuttle you right to the US flights. I think you sued to be able to do this?

I don't agree, Cork could do with its own T/a carrier. It is DAA's wish to do as you suggest as they are losing custom as most Cork to US passengers seem to head to UK or Europe to connect with a T/A flight.
If only the DAA could spend some time concentrating on the needs of Cork pax it would certainly help stop the decline of pax figures in Cork.

Jamie2k9

kub wrote: »

I don't agree, Cork could do with its own T/a carrier. It is DAA's wish to do as you suggest as they are losing custom as most Cork to US passengers seem to head to UK or Europe to connect with a T/A flight.
If only the DAA could spend some time concentrating on the needs of Cork pax it would certainly help stop the decline of pax figures in Cork.

and what part of profitably do people not understand when it comes to ORK-DUB flights.

Razor44

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

and what part of profitably do people not understand when it comes to ORK-DUB flights.

having said that, if it feeds T/A in eidw they would do it, but would they actually get the numbers day to day? doubt it.

IRLConor

Razor44 wrote: »

having said that, if it feeds T/A in eidw they would do it, but would there actually get the numbers day to day? doubt it.

And if they're not going to get the numbers to do ORK-DUB-JFK then they sure as hell wouldn't have numbers for ORK-JFK.

Zonda999

It wouldn't just be that though, there'd also be SFO from next year. I couldn't see it working though on anything other than an ATR42 and in all honesty, I can't see this happening

LHR is very easy to transit at this point, for Cork, it makes much more sense than going to DUB or SNN. Pure convenience, nothing to do with loyalty. Often cheaper too

IRLConor

Zonda999 wrote: »

It wouldn't just be that though, there'd also be SFO from next year. I couldn't see it working though on anything other than an ATR42 and in all honesty, I can't see this happening

Oh, agreed. I was more responding to kub's suggestion that Cork could do with its own transatlantic carrier.




Just to expand on that, I think it's worth remembering whether or not a city can support long haul flights is more a factor of population than status. While Cork is the second city of Ireland it's quite small in population terms. To give some comparison, these are the cities that have long haul flights from the UK:

City|Population
London|10+ million
Birmingham|~3.5 million
Manchester|~2.5 million
Leeds|~1.7 million
Glasgow|~1 million
Edinburgh|~800,000
Newcastle|~800,000
Belfast|~600,000


The closest comparison to Cork would be Belfast and Belfast has roughly 50% more people. If you try to increase Cork's catchment area you get tougher and tougher competition from Shannon and Dublin.

roundymac

T/A from Cork would attract support from Cork City and certain parts of the county, ie; West and East Cork. Any thing north of the city brings SNN into play. For most of Kerry, Tipperary, Waterford, SNN is as easy if not easier to get to than Cork, Limerick and Clare a no brainer. If an airline could make a profit operating a T/A out of Cork they would a done so by now, too many negatives against it. In no particuler order, (1) so much competition out of SNN, (2) US Pre Clearence, (3) limited catchment area, (4) runway restrictions, 2133mts as against 3200mts. A limited high season service is the best we could hope for, and I'm not even sure if that is a runner.
As for a Cork-Dublin just too much competition, bus (€22) return, motorway by car, train to a lessor extent. Lets just concentrate on holding and increasing the European routes that we have, as it is there is the beginings of interairport/interairline rivaleries starting to show. Some Cork routes being dropped (Lisbon) or reduced(Brussels, Malaga, Munich) to enable Cork based aircraft perform w rotations from SNN. If this continues there will be no winners.

kub

roundymac wrote: »

T/A from Cork would attract support from Cork City and certain parts of the county, ie; West and East Cork. Any thing north of the city brings SNN into play. For most of Kerry, Tipperary, Waterford, SNN is as easy if not easier to get to than Cork, Limerick and Clare a no brainer. If an airline could make a profit operating a T/A out of Cork they would a done so by now, too many negatives against it. In no particuler order, (1) so much competition out of SNN, (2) US Pre Clearence, (3) limited catchment area, (4) runway restrictions, 2133mts as against 3200mts. A limited high season service is the best we could hope for, and I'm not even sure if that is a runner.
As for a Cork-Dublin just too much competition, bus (€22) return, motorway by car, train to a lessor extent. Lets just concentrate on holding and increasing the European routes that we have, as it is there is the beginings of interairport/interairline rivaleries starting to show. Some Cork routes being dropped (Lisbon) or reduced(Brussels, Malaga, Munich) to enable Cork based aircraft perform w rotations from SNN. If this continues there will be no winners.

The bottom line so is that SNN has killed any potential ever of having t/a operations out of Cork. I had hoped that as SNN is for all intensive purposes now a competitor to DAA that Cork would perhaps get some benefit as in have its own t/a route in competition to SNN.
What a great country we live in, whereby the second city in the state is well and truly been kept where it belongs.

kub

IRLConor wrote: »

The closest comparison to Cork would be Belfast and Belfast has roughly 50% more people. If you try to increase Cork's catchment area you get tougher and tougher competition from Shannon and Dublin.

You are probably correct, but just to be more precise the population of the greater Cork area (City and satellite towns) is close to 400,000. Also consider all of the multinationals with operations down there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Cork

IRLConor

kub wrote: »

You are probably correct, but just to be more precise the population of the greater Cork area (City and satellite towns) is close to 400,000. Also consider all of the multinationals with operations down there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Cork

Yup. That's the figure I was using in the calculation above.

(Cork @ 400k) + 50% =~ (Belfast @ 600k)

BonkeyDonker

Cork may well be able to support TATL services, but it may be a case that any airlines interested in doing so can use their aircraft (a finite resource btw for most airlines) more profitably servicing another route.


As for Shannon - it appears that the 200 seat size is the sweet spot, as it gives a nice balance between economy and business/first for the routing.

Zonda999

I don't expect ORK to get a T/A route anytime soon.

If it were to happen,I would be expecting a seasonal American Airlines 757 service to JFK, and tbh, the chances of that happening hasn't exactly been helped lately with the AA-US merger, and the fact that US airways do operate from SNN (Whereas AA do not)

Fabio

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

and what part of profitably do people not understand when it comes to ORK-DUB flights.

They didn't connect to TA flights before...

Growler!!!

Let's look at it another way.

If ORK-DUB was a profitable route, why are Ryanair not doing it. They ran RE off the route before. What's to stop them from doing it again?

L1011

Growler!!! wrote: »

Let's look at it another way.

If ORK-DUB was a profitable route, why are Ryanair not doing it. They ran RE off the route before. What's to stop them from doing it again?

The issue with ORK-DUB is that we don't know if it was actually unprofitable or not and circumstances have changed since - both to the negative (better roads, more buses) and positive (interlining and a massive increase in TATL flights to interline to).

A route can be profitable but not worth running if the craft can be used for something else more profitable. Ryanair also couldn't offer through ticketing to EI services.

RE have pulled other apparently profitable routes to pursue ones that would make more money also - their fleet is far more limited than FR though.

Growler!!!

But RE didnt have any interline agreements when they were running the route either.

I'm also well aware of their shortages in both aircraft and crew at the moment.

knockon

yew_tree wrote: »

I never found a problem flying 757 across the pond. Would we even class DUB or SNN to JFK/NEW as long haul? I found United very good but as you say everyone has their own personal choice.

I did EWR - SNN in 5.05 just 2 weeks ago. Like going to the Canaries! Ok, going Westbound was 7 hours but United wasn't bad.