Diesel or Petrol 10.000-11.000 Mile a Year

JamJam30

Hi Guys

I currently own a 03 1.4 Ford Focus , I have recently moved out of town and ı will be making around 10.000 - 11.000 Mile a year. I am really not sure if I stay with my 1.4 petrol or go for diesel to save money on petrol.

TBi

Depends on the MPG you get. Calculate how much it will cost you to run it for the year. Is it worth spending a few thousand to save a few hundred? Diesels have higher running costs in tax, servicing and repairs.

Better the devil you know.

djimi

What kind of driving are we talking? Is it 10k a year of driving every day on short trip journeys of town/city driving, or is it more infrequent motorway travel?

ei9go

I was buying a new car in 2010 and did an excel spreadsheet on the petrol and diesel models of the same car.

The breakeven point of the diesel over petrol was 55,000 km allowing for all costs.

Thats breakeven before you begin to save a cent.

Now a friend who is a car salesman reasonably pointed out that I not factored in the higher resale value of the diesel car but I'm not sure it's very significant.

PS. the car currently has 39,000km on it

discombobulate

In general switching cars never really works out as a money saving exercise unless you were driving something with very high tax and high fuel bills. If money is an issue the best thing you could do is drive that Focus until it's ready for the scrap heap. You'll pay less for fuel and maybe tax if you change but you'll have spent much more on the change of cars.

discombobulate

discombobulate wrote: »

In general switching cars never really works out as a money saving exercise unless you were driving something with very high tax and high fuel bills. If money is an issue the best thing you could do is drive that Focus until it's ready for the scrap heap. You'll pay less for fuel and maybe tax if you change but you'll have spent much more on the change of cars.

And to maximise your savings don't skimp on servicing and routine maintenance. Learn to do the basic maintenance yourself.

The_Honeybadger

ei9go wrote: »

I was buying a new car in 2010 and did an excel spreadsheet on the petrol and diesel models of the same car.

The breakeven point of the diesel over petrol was 55,000 km allowing for all costs.

Thats breakeven before you begin to save a cent.

Now a friend who is a car salesman reasonably pointed out that I not factored in the higher resale value of the diesel car but I'm not sure it's very significant.

PS. the car currently has 39,000km on it

If more people did this there would be far fewer diesels on the road. I have a sister in law doing less than 5k miles per year who is hell bent on changing her perfectly good petrol car for a diesel as the cost of petrol is "killing" her. No amount of explaining of common sense is going to change her mind. She is far from the only one with this mindset, the whole country has gone diesel mad as far as I can see.

jimgoose

mickeyk wrote: »

If more people did this there would be far fewer diesels on the road. I have a sister in law doing less than 5k miles per year who is hell bent on changing her perfectly good petrol car for a diesel as the cost of petrol is "killing" her. No amount of explaining of common sense is going to change her mind. She is far from the only one with this mindset, the whole country has gone diesel mad as far as I can see.

Yeah. My mother has a 2009 1.4 Fiesta that does 50 MPG and is now making diesel-buying sounds in spite of doing about 6,000 miles per annum. As Basil Fawlty put it, now for the tricky bit!

Cleveland Hot Pocket

jimgoose wrote: »

Yeah. My mother has a 2009 1.4 Fiesta that does 50 MPG and is now making diesel-buying sounds in spite of doing about 6,000 miles per annum. As Basil Fawlty put it, now for the tricky bit!

Would the 2009 diesel fiesta even get more than 50 mpg? I doubt it!

ncmc

That's very interesting. Do you mind me asking how you came up with those figures ei9go? I think I need to trade up my 07 3 door fiesta as I have a baby on the way and presumed a diesel car was the way to go based on my mileage of 30k odd per year (about 70/30 open road to city driving) but am interested in what the extra costs are involved in a diesel? Maybe I'd be better sticking to a petrol and just go for something 5 door with a slightly bigger boot?

The_Honeybadger

ncmc wrote: »

That's very interesting. Do you mind me asking how you came up with those figures ei9go? I think I need to trade up my 07 3 door fiesta as I have a baby on the way and presumed a diesel car was the way to go based on my mileage of 30k odd per year (about 70/30 open road to city driving) but am interested in what the extra costs are involved in a diesel? Maybe I'd be better sticking to a petrol and just go for something 5 door with a slightly bigger boot?

30k is diesel mileage, it's the people doing 5k miles per year who will see no benefit in a diesel.

To work it out properly you'd need the l/100km for your current car and the car you are thinking of buying. Also factor in cost of diesel vs petrol, servicing, loan repayments etc., a simple excel formula will show what savings if any will be realised from changing to a diesel.

unkel

mickeyk wrote: »

If more people did this there would be far fewer diesels on the road. I have a sister in law doing less than 5k miles per year who is hell bent on changing her perfectly good petrol car for a diesel as the cost of petrol is "killing" her. No amount of explaining of common sense is going to change her mind. She is far from the only one with this mindset, the whole country has gone diesel mad as far as I can see.

Be quiet, mickeyk!

I enjoy driving petrol cars that I buy for next to nothing

czipownik

Unless you are going to drive a lot of miles in year, buying diesel car makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Although mpg and EUR/litre figures can appalling in favor for the diesel vehicle, think twice about much higher costs of upcoming repairs.

Diesel engine features much higher compression ratio for combustion and thus more vibration results. So called dual mass flywheel is used on the clutch. It tends to wear off at 120-150k km. Another infamous component is a turbo charger. Injectors also end its life on diesel before 200k km. The newer piezoelectric ones cannot be refurbed at all.

If someone buys a new diesel car, then maybe it's fine to do so for the long journeys. Short commute does not give enough time for the engine and exhaust to heat up, leading to problems with DPF (diesel particulate filter).

Myself in a process of changing the car as my family is about to grow. Tried to find some newer second hand with low mileage and no much petrol choice really for 09 reg on. As someone else pointed out in this thread, the country has gone mad on diesel:-) Ended up with 07 reg big petrol MPV. The dealer man gave a very good price 2k EUR below diesel equivalent. Asuming 12k km drive a year, it will take 3 years before I start spending more because of the petrol engine:-)

JamJam30

Okay I think I will stay with my 1.4 Ford focus petrol

ei9go

ncmc wrote: »

That's very interesting. Do you mind me asking how you came up with those figures ei9go?

It's pretty straighforward.

Firstly there was a 2,000 Euro extra cost for the same spec diesel car.
The diesel was Tax band A and the Petrol B so a small saving there for the diesel.

Diesel is cheaper per litre and the car goes further per litre.

So calculate using the average mpg of both the diesel and petrol cars and get an actual cost per km of both and then look at the number of km you usually do per year.

You could factor in higher servicing costs for the diesel but it's very marginal over the other costs.

So you then have to see how many km you will have to do to save the extra cost of the car

I looked for the spreadsheet I did but I must have deleted it.

I may run it up again and post it.

Red Kev

You need to calculate in a lot of things. I started to do about 30,000 km this year and it made sense to get a diesel.

The most important factor here is that I was spending about €3,500 on a second hand 2004 Passat and wasn't buying a new car, or something over €10,000. I was driving a 2001 2.0 SAAB 9-3 before this.


Works out as follows per year over 3 years for the major costs: (VW 6.2l/100 km, SAAB 9.0l/100km):

Depreciation: VW 600, SAAB 200
Tax: VW 670, SAAB 710
Insurance: VW 460, SAAB 340
Fuel: VW €2700, SAAB €4050

• I paid cash for the VW, so no interest or finance charges though I lose interest on the money I paid for the car if I'd left it in the bank.
• Tyres are the same so wear and tear on these are equal, as are the usual wipers, bulbs etc. etc.
• Oil changes etc I do myself and the oil and filter costs are similar per annum.

From looking at that it's a difference of about €800 per annum in favour of the VW, minus any extra servicing costs for the diesel against the SAAB. The VW is fully serviced and in good condition but I'm also factoring in some bigger bills for suspension and engine services over the three years I intend to keep it.

If I was back to doing 20,000 km per annum I wouldn't have changed.

czipownik

Yep, there is a breakeven point at which it does make sense to switch to diesel.

My story is as follows:
- there is two cars in the family, the main one clocks up 12,000 km per annum
- daily commute to work 10km each way plus occasional ride around the city for shopping, leasure centre, etc.
- rare long trips from Limerick to Dublin or Cork
- I am "specialized" in PSA cars (Peugeot, Citroen), advanced in DIY mechanics/electronics + have a dedicated diagnostic scanner Planet/Lexia
- Fast depreciation of Peugeot/Citroen allows to buy second hands cheaply and I know how to maintain/repair them:-)
- BTW, together with my Mrs. we like PSA cars as they are really comfortable

Last Saturday I struck a bargain deal for Citroen C4 Picasso (5 seater), 2007 reg, 72k km on the clock, 1.8 petrol, the vehicle checked already to be genuine, your man (Citroen dealer) gives 12 months warranty. He sells me at 7 grand, other offers (mainly diesel) for 2007 reg start at 9 grand (the ones with warranty, not private sales).

Comparison 1.8 petrol vs. 1.6 diesel (HDi):
- average fuel consumption as per manufacturer's specs: petrol 8.0 litres/100km, diesel 5.4 litres/100km
- cost of fuel at the pumps: 1.50EUR petrol, 1.45EUR diesel
- annual cost of fuel (12k km mileage): 120*8.0*1.50=1440EUR petrol, 120*5.4*1.45=939EUR diesel
- annual road tax: 636EUR petrol, 514EUR diesel
- annual cost of fuel+tax: 2076EUR petrol, 1453 diesel
- the difference is 623EUR per annum in a favour for diesel

The man advertised the petrol car 2000EUR below other offers. There was only one other 1.8 petrol car priced similarly to the diesel C4 Picassos. 2000EUR/623EUR gives me 3.2 years before I start spending more on my petrol car:-)

In terms of reliability, my petrol vehicle will not have:
- turbocharger
- dual mass clutch flywheel
- high pressure diesel injectors

All of these can fail on diesel car at 120-150k km, depending on how the vehicle was treated by the previous owners.

However, should I was clocking >20,000 km per year I would strongly consider diesel option.

green123

Red Kev wrote: »

You need to calculate in a lot of things. I started to do about 30,000 km this year and it made sense to get a diesel.

The most important factor here is that I was spending about €3,500 on a second hand 2004 Passat and wasn't buying a new car, or something over €10,000. I was driving a 2001 2.0 SAAB 9-3 before this.


Works out as follows per year over 3 years for the major costs: (VW 6.2l/100 km, SAAB 9.0l/100km):

Depreciation: VW 600, SAAB 200
Tax: VW 670, SAAB 710
Insurance: VW 460, SAAB 340
Fuel: VW €2700, SAAB €4050

• I paid cash for the VW, so no interest or finance charges though I lose interest on the money I paid for the car if I'd left it in the bank.
• Tyres are the same so wear and tear on these are equal, as are the usual wipers, bulbs etc. etc.
• Oil changes etc I do myself and the oil and filter costs are similar per annum.

From looking at that it's a difference of about €800 per annum in favour of the VW, minus any extra servicing costs for the diesel against the SAAB. The VW is fully serviced and in good condition but I'm also factoring in some bigger bills for suspension and engine services over the three years I intend to keep it.

If I was back to doing 20,000 km per annum I wouldn't have changed.

so you save 800 per year,
2400 over the 3 years.

but, you spent 3500 buying a new car.
so you are 1100 worse off.

so it didnt make sense to get a diesel.

you would have been better off keeping your petrol saab