Advise for kennel cough please

ferretcrazy

Hi, we have 3 dogs, dog 1 started coughing wednesday, dog 2 on friday and today dog 3, they all have there boasters every year but our vet said as long as there not in kennels they dont need the kennel cough vaccination, have had them to the vets and they were put on 10 days of antibiotics, in all the years i've had dogs i have never seen the likes of this before, there all really sick and miserable with it between vomiting and coughing, some times there so congested its like the can't breath, we have been giving them honey to help there throats, any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.

muddypaws

I'm astounded that a vet would say that, as kennel cough is just the common name for it, dogs can pick it up from anywhere that another dog has been. I'd phone the vet in the morning and explain how bad they are, they may be able to give something to help with the breathing as well as the antibiotics.

Kukey

My JRT got kennel cough last year and I didn't bring her to the Vet.I just gave her 2 or 3 teaspoons of manuka honey every day.She was back to herself after a few days.

Millem

ferretcrazy wrote: »

Hi, we have 3 dogs, dog 1 started coughing wednesday, dog 2 on friday and today dog 3, they all have there boasters every year but our vet said as long as there not in kennels they dont need the kennel cough vaccination, have had them to the vets and they were put on 10 days of antibiotics, in all the years i've had dogs i have never seen the likes of this before, there all really sick and miserable with it between vomiting and coughing, some times there so congested its like the can't breath, we have been giving them honey to help there throats, any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.

Kennel cough is a killer. My dogs got it even though they had been vaccinated do don't feel bad about it keep dogs indoors whatever you do don't bring them out for a walk as it is air borne and you could spread it other dogs. It lasts a few weeks I always found the antibiotics the vet gives do the trick but the rescue I used to foster for always swore by Manuka honey and a cough medicine (can't remember the name) I think it begins with an e?? They used to make us use it for a few days and if no relief then dog was sent to vet. With my own dogs I always just go to vet straight away. I always think kennel cough sounds much worse than it actually is

ceo

My Yorkie has just had an awful dose of kennel cough. Much the same as OP he was given a 10day course of antibiotics. Went back after 10 days as he wasn't at all well nor over it, was told to give him a few more days. So I also started on the manuka honey after a neighbour mentioned it, sure enough it worked after about a week later he was back to his cheerful happy chappie self. I was very disappointed by the vets reaction on the second visit tbh.

boomerang

It really depends on the individual dog - for example if they are immuno-suppressed or suffering a concurrent illness. Don't treat it lightly as it can affect some dogs very badly.

DBB

boomerang wrote: »

It really depends on the individual dog - for example if they are immuno-suppressed or suffering a concurrent illness. Don't treat it lightly as it can affect some dogs very badly.

I can't emphasise this enough... Most dogs will shrug KC off the way humans get through a common cold, but for an elderly, and/or immuno-compromised dog, it can kill them.
In addition, is it just me or are there some really icky, harsh strains doing the rounds in the past year or two? It used to be a slightly irritating dry cough, but all too often now affected dogs are snot factories, with really bad congestion and misery.
The vaccine has a relatively low efficacy, like the human cold or flu the virus is constantly morphing into different forms that the vaccine is trying to play catch-up with.

boomerang

It also brings on symptoms DBB as IIRC, it's a live vaccine. So a recently vaccinated dog with mild clinical signs will be contagious to other pets that it comes in contact with, including cats! Vaccinated dogs going into kennels may actually give the infection to other boarders! It's one vaccine that I really doubt the value of.

sral1

ferretcrazy wrote: »

Hi, we have 3 dogs, dog 1 started coughing wednesday, dog 2 on friday and today dog 3, they all have there boasters every year but our vet said as long as there not in kennels they dont need the kennel cough vaccination, have had them to the vets and they were put on 10 days of antibiotics, in all the years i've had dogs i have never seen the likes of this before, there all really sick and miserable with it between vomiting and coughing, some times there so congested its like the can't breath, we have been giving them honey to help there throats, any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.

I think they should rename K C as basic dog flu,,,,, it would do away with the confusion that dogs can only pick it up in kennels. Also now some vets are advising general boosters every 3 years so KC or the flu vac will be put on the long finger,,, dogs need KC vac once a year. I don't think dogs die directly from KC but it can bring on other conditions that may cause death.

DBB

sral1 wrote: »

I don't think dogs die directly from KC but it can bring on other conditions that may cause death.

Not quite... If a dog already has a condition that compromises its ability to breath or ability to function, KC can make it far worse, as opposed to bringing it on. In other words, the condition is already very much there, with KC adding to their woes.
Indeed, for dogs with compromised lung or heart health, KC can sound the death knell for such dogs.

Knine

There have been several show dogs come down with KC after someone brought a dog to one of the IKC shows a few weeks ago that was contagious. At the show in question several dogs were coughing. Mine were vaccinated so were ok. It can be dangerous if you had a litter of young puppies at home.

muddypaws

sral1 wrote: »

I think they should rename K C as basic dog flu,,,,, it would do away with the confusion that dogs can only pick it up in kennels. Also now some vets are advising general boosters every 3 years so KC or the flu vac will be put on the long finger,,, dogs need KC vac once a year. I don't think dogs die directly from KC but it can bring on other conditions that may cause death.

General boosters are every 3 years, but lepto is still annually, so you could get the KC and lepto done at the same time.

aonb

My dogs had always been vaccinated for KC (as well as the other usual shots) One of the dogs got KC a couple of years ago - just a horrible cough, no other symptoms (but it sounded terrible) - he's elderly, but he got over it really quickly, and strangelyl the others didnt get it. We gave Honey and human cough medicine. The vet did say that the vacc just doesnt cover all/new strains, and he agreed that in a healthy dog the vaccine probably wasnt imperative...

OP, have you changed anything in their living area? Like beds, etc. It's possible that it's not just a cough, but could be an allergy. What do they sleep on? One of my westies got very ill after I washed their bed in a different washing powder. I've read of dogs on beds of straw reacted to the straw dust. If you're not too happy with your vet, go to another one.

tk123

[quote="Millem;87676791" cough medicine (can't remember the name) I think it begins with an e??[/quote]

Exputex?

Millem

tk123 wrote: »

Exputex?

Yes that is the one!!

nyoto

Kennel cough is not an absolutley necessary vaccination but i would advise anyone to give it if they are ever in contact with other dogs, at the beach, dog shows etc. It can last for weeks im afraid. Honey is good and you can also give benylin or exputex at a childs dose. The name Kennel cough is a misnomer as they can pick it up anywhere esp where there are lots of dogs in close proximity. It isnt fatal ut it is very uncomfortale to the poor dog

muddypaws

One of my dogs was due his boosters last week, but I chose not to get the KC one. My vet said they hadn't had any KC in the area for a while, but I'm hearing that it is rife in other parts of the country, and has already been said, was at a major dog show recently. But, that does make me question if the vaccine is effective at all, I'm sure most of the show dogs would be vaccinated, so how is it so rife? I realise it is like our flu vaccine, changes all the time, and can only cover what they think is around at that time, but does anyone know how often they change it to take into account the new strains? And where its made, if a particular strain is around in America lets say, and that's where its made, is there any evidence that it is the same strain that would be in Ireland?

There was recently a major sled dog championships in Italy, with dogs from all over Europe, and it was there as well, very irresponsible of people to take dogs that they know are contagious to events like that, and shows.

DBB

I don't know the ins and outs of the immunology behind it all muddypaws, but I do remember reading up on the vaccine a few years ago, and found out at that point that it is only 70% efficacious.
It's not the best odds ever, is it?

muddypaws

I wonder if dogs can have Echinacea? Will investigate, as to whether it may be better to try and boost the immune system to fight the infection.

maggiepip

muddypaws wrote: »

I wonder if dogs can have Echinacea? Will investigate, as to whether it may be better to try and boost the immune system to fight the infection.

They can have echinacea - coconut oil is great for the immune system too.

wolfpawnat

nyoto wrote: »

Kennel cough is not an absolutley necessary vaccination but i would advise anyone to give it if they are ever in contact with other dogs, at the beach, dog shows etc. It can last for weeks im afraid.

Technically no vaccine is absolutely necessary, but like with human vaccines, prevention is better than a cure.

Most kennels won't take a dog without the vaccine, and to be honest, I wouldn't trust one that doesn't demand a vaccine card!

muddypaws

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Technically no vaccine is absolutely necessary, but like with human vaccines, prevention is better than a cure.

Most kennels won't take a dog without the vaccine, and to be honest, I wouldn't trust one that doesn't demand a vaccine card!

The kennels I use prefer the dogs not to have the KC vaccine, as its a live vaccine. They have been open for 20 years and never had a case. Obviously they do take dogs that have had the vaccine, but prefer them not to. And yes, they do check the dog's vaccine card.

I think the discussion is about how effective the prevention is with this particular vaccine.

wolfpawnat

muddypaws wrote: »

The kennels I use prefer the dogs not to have the KC vaccine, as its a live vaccine. They have been open for 20 years and never had a case. Obviously they do take dogs that have had the vaccine, but prefer them not to. And yes, they do check the dog's vaccine card.

I think the discussion is about how effective the prevention is with this particular vaccine.

It's a lot like the TB vaccine in kids these days (slightly ot and I apologise) kids are getting the BCG, but as the strands of TB are changing, it is not as effective. However it does decrease the chances of mortality as it gives some immunity. I think perhaps this may now be the case with this too.

ferretcrazy

Thanks everyone for all your replys, brought the 3 dogs back to the vets yesterday and we were given more antibotics and anti inflammatorys, so its just a waiting game now, 2 dogs have stoped trowing up and just dog 3 is still vomiting, and he hates the honey so we been trying him with cough bottle, They are now called the coughing choir when anybody arrives, ahh. one starts they all start, its worst then having small kids to look after.
We did have one of our dogs at the pet expo a few days before this started but like people said you can pick it up anywhere, but i would have liked to pevented it from happening because i feel so guilty but there well looked after and all inside keeping warm, Thanks again for the information, Regards.

StompToWork

Thankfully, my fella has never had KC. We keep his boosters up to date, and he does spend a good amount of time around other dogs, so touch wood, he'll escape it.

I do have a question, however, about vets prescribing antibiotics for KC. Isn't it caused by a virus like flu? I don't get how antibiotics would be any good? Is it just to stave off potential bacterial infection of an already raw doggie throat?

DBB

That's right stomptowork, the antibiotics treat the secondary bacterial infections brought on by the virus, as opposed to treating the virus itself. So, the antibiotics help to treat some of the symptoms, rather than acting as a cure :-)

boomerang

It is effective in reducing the clinical signs of B. bronchiseptica infection where a common strain is involved. The problem is, not all canine coughs are caused by the same strain, or indeed the same pathogen. Parainfluenza is another cause of canine cough and again, there are different strains of parainfluenza. The Bronchishield vaccine does not include parainfluenza.

Bronchishield data sheet

"Occasionally, transient coughing (1 or 2 days) may occur, during the first days following vaccination. In rare occasions, transient nasal or ocular discharge may be observed. In animals, which show more severe signs, appropriate antibiotic treatment may be indicated. However, veterinarians should be aware that antibiotic treatment given less than 14 days after vaccination may impair vaccine efficacy.

Vaccinated dogs may excrete the vaccine strain of Bordetella bronchiseptica up to 7 weeks following vaccination. During this time, immuno-depressed persons are advised to avoid contact with vaccinated dogs. Similar precautions are also applicable to unvaccinated, in-contact or immuno-depressed animals."

Nobivac KC datasheet

"Active immunisation of dogs against Bordetella bronchiseptica and canine parainfluenza virusfor periods of increased
risk to reduce clinical signs induced by B. bronchiseptica and canine parainfluenza virus and to reduce shedding of canine parainfluenza virus.

Mild discharges from the eyes and nose can occur from the day after vaccination, sometimes accompanied by wheezing,sneezing and/or coughing, particularly in very young susceptible puppies. Signs are generally transient, but in occasional cases may persist for up to four weeks. In animals, which show more severe signs, appropriate antibiotic treatment may be indicated.

Vaccinated animals can spread the Bordetella bronchiseptica vaccine strain for six weeks and the canine parainfluenza vaccine strain for a few days after vaccination. Immunosuppressive medication may increase the chance of adverse effects caused by the live vaccine strains. Cats, pigs and unvaccinated dogs may react to the vaccine strains with mild and transient respiratory signs. Other animals, like rabbits and small rodents have not been tested.

Immuno-compromised individuals should avoid any contact with the vaccine and vaccinated dogs up to six weeks after vaccination."


Nobivac KC provides immunity against B. bronchiseptica 72 hours after vaccination. Bronchishield provides immunity after five days. Now here's the problem: vaccinated dogs can shed the infection for six to seven weeks after vaccination. Owners are putting the dogs in kennels as soon as immunity is provided, but while the dogs are still infectious to other in contact animals. So a KC-vaccinated dog going into kennels within two months of vaccination may give it to other, in-contact dogs there.

boomerang

StompToWork wrote: »

Thankfully, my fella has never had KC. We keep his boosters up to date, and he does spend a good amount of time around other dogs, so touch wood, he'll escape it.

I do have a question, however, about vets prescribing antibiotics for KC. Isn't it caused by a virus like flu? I don't get how antibiotics would be any good? Is it just to stave off potential bacterial infection of an already raw doggie throat?

Bordetella bronchiceptica is a bacteria.

The other main cause is the canine parainfluenza virus. Funnily enough, this is included in some core vaccines, but there may be some benefit to including it in a KC-specific vaccine, as it is more effective in stimulating immunity via the intra-nasal route. But then why include it in the core vaccine at all? (((scratches head))).