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Lord Carey. Anglican church will be gone in a generation.

Comments

  • #2
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    verbumdei wrote: »
    What do you make of Lord Carey's comments that the Anglican church will be gone in a generation?


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10458380/Christianity-at-risk-of-dying-out-in-a-generation-warns-Lord-Carey.html

    There are a lot of Anglicans who have moved to the new Catholic Ordinate and there are some parishes in the process of leaving the Anglican Church.

    Is there a future for the Anglican Church?

    It's worth noting that he seems to be talking about British Christianity in general, not just the Church of England.



    George Carey's pronouncements have become increasingly apocalyptic, and I wouldn't give much credence to this. Witness his bizarre statements on the arms industry, immigration, and the "persecution" of Christians in Britain. The Anglican Church will be around for a long time to come, the form it will be around in is yet to be seen. And the problems it faces are by no means unique to it.

    Are significant numbers joining the Ordinate, btw? A lot has been written about it in the Catholic press, but I understand that the numbers involved are quite low.


  • #3
    verbumdei
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭verbumdei


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    It's worth noting that he seems to be talking about British Christianity in general, not just the Church of England.



    George Carey's pronouncements have become increasingly apocalyptic, and I wouldn't give much credence to this. Witness his bizarre statements on the arms industry, immigration, and the "persecution" of Christians in Britain. The Anglican Church will be around for a long time to come, the form it will be around in is yet to be seen. And the problems it faces are by no means unique to it.

    Are significant numbers joining the Ordinate, btw? A lot has been written about it in the Catholic press, but I understand that the numbers involved are quite low.

    I know that once the Anglican Church breaks with Apostolic tradition there are groups that will move.

    There are dozens of Groups in the UK. http://www.ordinariate.org.uk


  • #4
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    It's worth noting that he seems to be talking about British Christianity in general, not just the Church of England.

    George Carey's pronouncements have become increasingly apocalyptic, and I wouldn't give much credence to this. Witness his bizarre statements on the arms industry, immigration, and the "persecution" of Christians in Britain. The Anglican Church will be around for a long time to come, the form it will be around in is yet to be seen. And the problems it faces are by no means unique to it.

    Are significant numbers joining the Ordinate, btw? A lot has been written about it in the Catholic press, but I understand that the numbers involved are quite low.

    Its not only him who has talking about that. For instance the cross being banned in the work place, B and Bs run by Christians getting into trouble for refusing homosexuals to share a room in their premises, etc. The socially liberal Liberatarian Alliance has also commented on this.


  • #5
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Lets remember the strength of Anglicanism in Africa- the average Anglican is a black woman.

    Also you have the amazing Radical Orthodoxy movement in the C of E and you have people like N T Wright.

    Of course Anglicanism is in crisis- disestablishment is extremely necessary so that it can be a proper Church in the full sense.


  • #6
    verbumdei
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭verbumdei


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Lets remember the strength of Anglicanism in Africa- the average Anglican is a black woman.

    Also you have the amazing Radical Orthodoxy movement in the C of E and you have people like N T Wright.

    Of course Anglicanism is in crisis- disestablishment is extremely necessary so that it can be a proper Church in the full sense.

    That is why so many are returning to the true church in communion with Rome.


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  • #7
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    verbumdei wrote: »
    That is why so many are returning to the true church in communion with Rome.

    And so many are drawn to "Evangelical" groups.


  • #8
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    For instance the cross being banned in the work place...
    Oh, I missed that. When was the cross banned form the workplace?
    SoulandForm wrote: »
    B and Bs run by Christians getting into trouble for refusing homosexuals to share a room in their premises, etc.
    I am sure you don't have an issue with people not being allowed to discriminate, do you?

    MrP


  • #9
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Oh, I missed that. When was the cross banned form the workplace?

    I am sure you don't have an issue with people not being allowed to discriminate, do you?

    MrP

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-right-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

    Christians who are connected to historic Christianity dont believe that there are homosexual persons as such- but that there are homosexual acts and people who identify with those acts.


  • #10
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9136191/Christians-have-no-right-to-wear-cross-at-work-says-Government.html

    Christians who are connected to historic Christianity dont believe that there are homosexual persons as such- but that there are homosexual acts and people who identify with those acts.
    The problem you have there is the government said no such thing. Wearing a cross at work is not banned. The telegraph is not really a good source. If you are actually interested in why these decisions were made you could do worse than reading this:

    http://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2013/01/15/strasbourg-rules-against-ba-on-crucifix-issue/

    A religious belief does not, and should not, give you the right to discriminate against a certain class of people.


  • #11
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Some posts are venturing into territory covered by the gay megathread. Keep it on-topic folks.


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  • #12
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭homer911


    In my experience, the church is actually two generations from extinction. Increasingly I'm seeing grand parents bringing grand children to church, with no sign of the parents. Jump to two generations and the church will be in crisis (numerically). We currently have a generation that associate church with Baptisms, Weddings, Christmas and Easter. This generation is bringing up children with an even lesser association with Christianity.

    In my own church, it seems that parents have a greater sense of responsibility to the local football/hockey/rugby/GAA team than they to to their own church, with sports being the first option and then if no match is on, they might "think about" coming to church.


  • #13
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    deleted. Off topic


  • #14
    JimiTime
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    I believe as the afterglow of Christianity readily fades in the post Christian west, it will become like a ship without a rudder. It is already started to happen. Objective morality and the things founded on Christian principals will continue dwindle, and those who think they have arrived at their sense of justice etc from within themselves will breed generations of people who will question why the previous generations did one thing or another as they will not even have Christianity's afterglow. Without the rudder of God to guide them, we will see an increase in injustice, as there will be more and more of a self obsessed, self-centred approach. The ambiguous, and extremely malleable 'human rights' concept will become broken rudder that replaces God. The west will ultimately lose its way, and along with it, Gods protection. God restrains evil, yes, even the wickedness we see would be worse if God did not restrain it. The more and more we leave God, the more and more he will leave us, just as he left Jerusalem and stopped restraining Babylon, so will he do with the west if we do not turn the ship around.

    I find it interesting that a nation like China may enter into a more human focussed era, and MAYBE become enlightened as her people increasingly turn to God. As the west abandons God, other nations may gain the light of God and may even receive the blessings of God.

    I find Peter Hitchens quite a good read on the subject. The self titled 'Obituarist for Christian Britain' :) I think Christians are FAR from being persecuted here, but we're not a million miles away from it being a distinct possibility. Maybe a in a few generations.


  • #15
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    homer911 wrote: »
    In my experience, the church is actually two generations from extinction. Increasingly I'm seeing grand parents bringing grand children to church, with no sign of the parents. Jump to two generations and the church will be in crisis (numerically). We currently have a generation that associate church with Baptisms, Weddings, Christmas and Easter. This generation is bringing up children with an even lesser association with Christianity.

    In my own church, it seems that parents have a greater sense of responsibility to the local football/hockey/rugby/GAA team than they to to their own church, with sports being the first option and then if no match is on, they might "think about" coming to church.

    Christ has founded His Church on the rock of the confession of Him as the Son of God and the mouths of hell can never conquer that. The Church will endure until the end of the age-whether it will in Ireland or the wider British Isles is another story....But we cannot forget Christ's conquest and the ultimate victory of the Church.


  • #16
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    JimiTime wrote: »
    I believe as the afterglow of Christianity readily fades in the post Christian west, it will become like a ship without a rudder. It is already started to happen. Objective morality and the things founded on Christian principals will continue dwindle, and those who think they have arrived at their sense of justice etc from within themselves will breed generations of people who will question why the previous generations did one thing or another as they will not even have Christianity's afterglow. Without the rudder of God to guide them, we will see an increase in injustice, as there will be more and more of a self obsessed, self-centred approach. The ambiguous, and extremely malleable 'human rights' concept will become broken rudder that replaces God. The west will ultimately lose its way, and along with it, Gods protection. God restrains evil, yes, even the wickedness we see would be worse if God did not restrain it. The more and more we leave God, the more and more he will leave us, just as he left Jerusalem and stopped restraining Babylon, so will he do with the west if we do not turn the ship around.

    I find it interesting that a nation like China may enter into a more human focussed era, and MAYBE become enlightened as her people increasingly turn to God. As the west abandons God, other nations may gain the light of God and may even receive the blessings of God.

    I find Peter Hitchens quite a good read on the subject. The self titled 'Obituarist for Christian Britain' :) I think Christians are FAR from being persecuted here, but we're not a million miles away from it being a distinct possibility. Maybe a in a few generations.

    What has morals got to do with Christianity? How would evil be worse without him?


  • #17
    homer911
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭homer911


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Christ has founded His Church on the rock of the confession of Him as the Son of God and the mouths of hell can never conquer that. The Church will endure until the end of the age-whether it will in Ireland or the wider British Isles is another story....But we cannot forget Christ's conquest and the ultimate victory of the Church.

    You are quite right - re-reading my comment I can see how it could have been taken as a very general statement where in reality I meant it more specific to my own experiences.

    I coordinate the Sunday School in my church and this year there was major concern about reducing the number of age groups from three to two due to a lack of leaders. As it transpires, we seem to have barely enough children for two groups this year, so perhaps I was having a bit of a rant..


  • #18
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    homer911 wrote: »
    You are quite right - re-reading my comment I can see how it could have been taken as a very general statement where in reality I meant it more specific to my own experiences.

    I coordinate the Sunday School in my church and this year there was major concern about reducing the number of age groups from three to two due to a lack of leaders. As it transpires, we seem to have barely enough children for two groups this year, so perhaps I was having a bit of a rant..

    I wasnt trying to a go at you-I live now in southern Ireland where Christianity among my own age group (mid 20s) is totally socially unacceptable, I can cope it with but it is depressing and its even more depressing to come across the number of people who sympathize with Christ but dont have the guts or the Grace to confess Him- yet they witness the continual power of attraction that Christ has.

    We all need to rant sometimes but focusing on the Majesty and Mystery of Christianity is also something we all need and it really does help even in the most difficult of situations.


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