daily gain store bullocks

triggerharvey

well lads just wondering could ye tell me what will store bullocks gain per day over the winter on good silage and 1 kg of nuts per day?

Muckit

I think pudsey said before that he worked it out to be ~0.5kg a day.

freedominacup

Muckit wrote: »

I think pudsey said before that he worked it out to be ~0.5kg a day.

That is not gaining. 0.7kg/day is maintenance growth rate on any young animal below that and they are losing condition.

bbam

It's impossible to tell.
Aparrenty "good silage" may be low in protein and so 1 kg of nuts ( I presume 15% ) will give no weight gain.

If you want to be sure of weight gain go and get the silage tested and then see what needs to be fed along with it. Some labs provide a feeding guideline along with the results.

Unless silage is exceptional I'd have thought gaining .7kg/day will be expensive. And if you read some research from teagasc weight gained through concentrate feeding over winter may not be retained at the end of the following grazing season.

TITANIUM.

freedominacup wrote: »

That is not gaining. 0.7kg/day is maintenance growth rate on any young animal below that and they are losing condition.

Someone on here had the results of a trial up, went along the lines of,
Weanlings on a high concentrates diet V low Concentrates during housing. The high concentrate group hit the grass in the spring well ahead but by the time the finishing period was over the low con group had cot up.Once the groups were released to grass both were put on the high con diet. End result was both groups achieved the same average daily weight gain but the group that received low concentrates during housing thrived far better once on grass than the high concentrate diet thus were far more efficient leaving you with more money in your pocket. Twould make u think.

freedominacup

bbam wrote: »

It's impossible to tell.
Aparrenty "good silage" may be low in protein and so 1 kg of nuts ( I presume 15% ) will give no weight gain.

If you want to be sure of weight gain go and get the silage tested and then see what needs to be fed along with it. Some labs provide a feeding guideline along with the results.

Unless silage is exceptional I'd have thought gaining .7kg/day will be expensive. And if you read some research from teagasc weight gained through concentrate feeding over winter may not be retained at the end of the following grazing season.

I'd agree with most of the above except the bit about silage needing to be exceptional. Average enough stuff 72-75DMD will give you 0.7kg/day LWG.
Though with silage of that sort of quality I would always feed around 1kg of a reasonable ration, plenty of grain and a small bit of good quality protein just for insurance.

1chippy

freedominacup wrote: »

I'd agree with most of the above except the bit about silage needing to be exceptional. Average enough stuff 72-75DMD will give you 0.7kg/day LWG.
Though with silage of that sort of quality I would always feed around 1kg of a reasonable ration, plenty of grain and a small bit of good quality protein just for insurance.

72-75 dmd is far from average.68 dmd would be average but then again i could be proven wrong.

severeoversteer

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Someone on here had the results of a trial up, went along the lines of,
Weanlings on a high concentrates diet V low Concentrates during housing. The high concentrate group hit the grass in the spring well ahead but by the time the finishing period was over the low con group had cot up.Once the groups were released to grass both were put on the high con diet. End result was both groups achieved the same average daily weight gain but the group that received low concentrates during housing thrived far better once on grass than the high concentrate diet thus were far more efficient leaving you with more money in your pocket. Twould make u think.

a large part of my herd for once ended up going down the compensatory gain route this summer,

problem was that they were putting on weight instead of flesh, so I had to feed them longer to get sufficient fat cover on them which ends up costing the same as feeding for the winter,

my feeling as a bit all along does the best job, and when you are finishing them they finish quicker

freedominacup

1chippy wrote: »

72-75 dmd is far from average.68 dmd would be average but then again i could be proven wrong.

Anything under 70 is s**t and usually involves a concious decision to make s**t silage. It doesn't usually happen by accident. 80+ is the target, 75+ is the acceptable range after that you are running into expensive crap. Better than nothing but much too expensive to supplement and you end up paying a lot for poor performance. The day before grass heads is the day that the max amount of energy is available in a crop of silage and it's all in digestible leaves after that every day more if this energy is converted to undigestible stem. Bulk is s**t literally. You make a decision not to cut as there's "not enough on it" or "shur that's only toppings" and then you wait for it to bulk up (turn to s**t). You then bring it into the pit, clamp it, cover it, then you feed it out and the cattle take that undigestible bulk you made a decision to harvest and literally turn it into s**t because they can do nothing else with it. It's undigestible, they can't use it, it becomes s**t and whatever energy that was in it which you wasted money and energy harvesting BTW is there on the slats to remind you every morning. If you want to lower the DMD of what your cattle are being fed buy some straw.

moy83

Whats the best nuts for these boyos and how much of it would they need for a finish ? They are bout 600 kg now and never saw nuts .

triggerharvey

hard to tell when they are upside down I take it you are not a photographer

moy83

triggerharvey wrote: »

hard to tell when they are upside down I take it you are not a photographer

Sorry trigger , I'm not a photographer. I'll try to stick up one the right way around again

Muckit

God the bi**hing on this tread is unreal! :-) the tread is not about how to make good silage or how best to take a photograph!!

Farmer Pudsey

There tends to be a lot of **** silage out there. Some lads that have what they percieve to be good silage is not great.

When feeding store cattle I would be more worried about minerals than nuts over the winter. If feeding low amounts of ration or none make sure stores are getting 100gr/head/day of Min+vits. This is the first and cheapest step. I am a fan of feeding calcium/feed grade cubicle lime as well 100/grams/head/day again very cheap. Min+cal will cost about less than 10c/day.

A ration for store I be trying to get somthing with a high level of P, would even consider feeding 0.5-0.7kgs of soya alone. I am always quite happy if stores gain 0.5+/day however most of my store are FRX's so gain will not be like CH/Lm etc.

Moy best nut for those friesian's is time. If 600kgs you will need to feed for 100-120 days to get to above 750kgs. They will eat 8kgs+ ration and a load of silage. If I could store gaining 50kgs until march and get back out to grass to finish june/july I would.In silage and ration they will cost 3+/day to finish not sure if they are not a bit narrow. Price is never superb in Feb/March when they will finish factory's have too many cattle. 350 each to finish you will get them to early march fopr 150 euro and back out to grass.

If you are really determined too finish a ration at about 13.5%P with barley, Maize a little wheat and distillers or Rape for P and 1%mins+1%calcium. A little molasses as well keeps the dust down. They will eat 1-1.2T of ration and a load of silage as well.

Will they kill 370kgs?

If you do not get full finish you will lose with fat and grade penalty's however it will cost you to finish well

Si it is heads you lose tails the factory's win

moy83

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Moy best nut for those friesian's is time. If 600kgs you will need to feed for 100-120 days to get to above 750kgs. They will eat 8kgs+ ration and a load of silage. If I could store gaining 50kgs until march and get back out to grass to finish june/july I would.In silage and ration they will cost 3+/day to finish not sure if they are not a bit narrow. Price is never superb in Feb/March when they will finish factory's have too many cattle. 350 each to finish you will get them to early march fopr 150 euro and back out to grass.

If you are really determined too finish a ration at about 13.5%P with barley, Maize a little wheat and distillers or Rape for P and 1%mins+1%calcium. A little molasses as well keeps the dust down. They will eat 1-1.2T of ration and a load of silage as well.

Will they kill 370kgs?

If you do not get full finish you will lose with fat and grade penalty's however it will cost you to finish well

Si it is heads you lose tails the factory's win

Thanks Puds , I havent my heart set on finishing them and when I see 350 a head I reckon I would only get it back on top of their mart price if I sold them now .
I got 800 a piece for their buddies a couple of months ago and was happy with it so I might show them at a mart before christmas and if get that sort of money or a bit better hopefully ill probably let them off

1chippy

freedominacup wrote: »

Anything under 70 is s**t and usually involves a concious decision to make s**t silage. It doesn't usually happen by accident. 80+ is the target, 75+ is the acceptable range after that you are running into expensive crap. Better than nothing but much too expensive to supplement and you end up paying a lot for poor performance. The day before grass heads is the day that the max amount of energy is available in a crop of silage and it's all in digestible leaves after that every day more if this energy is converted to undigestible stem. Bulk is s**t literally. You make a decision not to cut as there's "not enough on it" or "shur that's only toppings" and then you wait for it to bulk up (turn to s**t). You then bring it into the pit, clamp it, cover it, then you feed it out and the cattle take that undigestible bulk you made a decision to harvest and literally turn it into s**t because they can do nothing else with it. It's undigestible, they can't use it, it becomes s**t and whatever energy that was in it which you wasted money and energy harvesting BTW is there on the slats to remind you every morning. If you want to lower the DMD of what your cattle are being fed buy some straw.

im not here to piss anyone off but there arent many lads out there with 80 dmd silage. i got 74dmd with the bales this year and the pit still has to be tested.This was all cut in good weather and before it headed. 75 may be average silage to you but i would be fairly confident in saying that average silage across the board this year is nowhere near 75 dmd. Most people try to get the balance of a bit of bulk and fairly good quality. is there many people on here with 80 dmd silage. i doubt ive even ever seen 80 dmd silage. its not that i dont aim for it but i'll need to do a lot more reseeding and start to actually earn a decent pull out of beef before i can

TUBBY

Agreed 1chippy. I got 75dmd this year and am delighted. Up our country that is good silage. Hillsborough analysis showed average for 2012 was 67-68 and upper range was only 78.
2013 average was 72 from tested so far. My rep told me that with the figures for my silage he would expect 0.6kg dwg with no meal. Protein was 12.6%

just do it

Well if I have to eat cheap food from Aldi I've no sympathy for dry suckler cows having to eat bulk s***. Seem to be maintaining condition as well, against all the odds!

Muckit

John heney's bullocks -irish indo yesterday

What do ye think of his little experiment? Freisan v continental v traditional. Obvious as hell he's like a fish out of water. It's a great job that he posted a picture of the two charolais. If they hadn't the Angus cross l'd say they'd leave the freisans sitting. But can't see those growing up, whatever about out :-)