Detecting Garda Cars etc Legally !

mikeecho

Before anyone says anything..
THIS IS
NOT
A
RADAR/LASER
DETECTOR/Jammer

http://www.target-automotive.nl/en/target-blu-eye/

http://www.blu-eye.eu/en/22638/FAQ.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFhn8JKk25E

i wonder how effective it is.

The manufactuers usp is that emergency vehicles are involved in X amount of traffic accidents costing XXXXX amounts of money. And this is what you can use to help be aware of such vehicles that may be speeding etc !!


But, will it do exactly what it says on the tin

THIS IS
NOT
A
RADAR/LASER
DETECTOR/Jammer

personally, i think this is just a dumb radio receiver that will just alert to the presence of a signal, so if the police/garda/fire/ambo car isnt transmtting a signal , you wont get an alert
And its not likely that they will be on the radio all the time.

thoughts?

BMJD

sounds like bollox to me

keithclancy

That thing monitors the radio system of the Police so you detect the Police not a speeding checkpoint

http://www.flitsservice.nl/phpBB/detectoren-gps-en-laser-app/nieuw-product-target-target-blu-eye-c2000-detectie-t80071.html

Scans the 380-400 MHz range which is used by Tetra, in theory it should work in Ireland as the emergency services also use Tetra there.

Costs about a grand though !

mikeecho

keithclancy wrote: »

That thing monitors the radio system of the Police so you detect the Police not a speeding checkpoint

http://www.flitsservice.nl/phpBB/detectoren-gps-en-laser-app/nieuw-product-target-target-blu-eye-c2000-detectie-t80071.html

and here it is translated from double dutch to engerish

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flitsservice.nl%2FphpBB%2Fdetectoren-gps-en-laser-app%2Fnieuw-product-target-target-blu-eye-c2000-detectie-t80071.html&act=url

mikeecho

keithclancy wrote: »

That thing monitors the radio system of the Police so you detect the Police not a speeding checkpoint

http://www.flitsservice.nl/phpBB/detectoren-gps-en-laser-app/nieuw-product-target-target-blu-eye-c2000-detectie-t80071.html

Scans the 380-400 MHz range which is used by Tetra, in theory it should work in Ireland as the emergency services also use Tetra there.

Costs about a grand though !

but does tetra give periodic signals back to its base, or will this yoke only alert when the copper/ambo/fireman/coast guard, is using his radio

cadaliac

Scanning tetra??
>> " For protection against eavesdropping; air interface encryption and end-to-end encryption is available.<<
AFAIK, all government agencies use encryption.
Any tetra system would trigger the alert if it is just scanning the airwaves for radio bursts. So it would depend where you were listening. It is an industry wide used system so any nearby pharmaceutical plant or large industry employing these radio systems will trigger it.

ironclaw

mikeecho wrote: »

but does tetra give periodic signals back to its base, or will this yoke only alert when the copper/ambo/fireman/coast guard, is using his radio

Tetra works like GSM / 3G etc so there are periodic polling signals to the base station (By periodic I mean a few hundred a second) So yes, the unit does not have to be in active use for you to detect it.

Technically this would work in Ireland however, its illegal. You have no right as an average Joe soap to monitor or attempt to receive in that frequency band. Even if your not decrypting, listening etc (Not that you can anyway, Tetra is fairly secure) its still illegal to even monitor for the packets of information passing on that band. You need a license for any radio transmitter or receiver in a licensed band in Ireland, and this would qualify for needing a license from ComReg as its in the assigned Tetra band.

Also, if you are sitting in Dublin city centre, your going to have a serious amount of alerts given the amount of cells and Tetra units in the vicinity (Tetra is not directional in any way shape or form). Which defeats the entire purpose. All said and done, if you end up in court you are in for one hell of a time. You can easily build these units if you are anyway handy with electronics. Its merely an RF Meter tuned to a particular band.

As I always say, just slow down. Its cheaper. No one buys one of these to get out the way of a speeding ambulance

mikeecho

ironclaw wrote: »

Tetra works like GSM / 3G etc so there are periodic polling signals to the base station (By periodic I mean a few hundred a second) So yes, the unit does not have to be in active use for you to detect it.

Technically this would work in Ireland however, its illegal. You have no right as an average Joe soap to monitor or attempt to receive in that frequency band. Even if your not decrypting, listening etc (Not that you can anyway, Tetra is fairly secure) its still illegal to even monitor for the packets of information passing on that band. You need a license for any radio transmitter or receiver in a licensed band in Ireland, and this would qualify for needing a license from ComReg as its in the assigned Tetra band.

Also, if you are sitting in Dublin city centre, your going to have a serious amount of alerts given the amount of cells and Tetra units in the vicinity (Tetra is not directional in any way shape or form). Which defeats the entire purpose. All said and done, if you end up in court you are in for one hell of a time.

but my tv and phone can detect that (tetra) band ....

i didn't think comreg issued a license for the reception of signals


and my AM/FM radio, and DAB radio can detect signals in a licensed band,

am i looking at jail time

keithclancy

ironclaw wrote: »

As I always say, just slow down. Its cheaper. No one buys one of these to get out the way of a speeding ambulance

For sure .. but it's useless for static speed cameras anyway

They even tell you who uses it

http://www.tetraireland.ie/about/

AFAIK over here anyway there are times that cops purposely drive up your a$$ trying to goad you into speeding, or sit in the overtaking lane blocking it in the hopes they can pull someone over for undertaking.

mikeecho

ironclaw wrote: »

So yes, the unit does not have to be in active use for you to detect it.

+1

ironclaw wrote: »

No one buys one of these to get out the way of a speeding ambulance

maybe one person might :rolleyes:

Days 298

How much?

mikeecho

Days 298 wrote: »

How much?

€900 to €1,000

OldmanMondeo

Without reading the other comments or about the device, I would say someone is on a Del-Boy rich by Christmas scam. There is no better device to check for Garda then the auld eyes.

keithclancy

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Without reading the other comments or about the device, I would say someone is on a Del-Boy rich by Christmas scam. There is no better device to check for Garda then the auld eyes.

The whole point of the thing is to detect unmarked cars.

If you watch the videos in the link I posted its supposedly detecting unmarked Police Vehicles.

rovoagho

keithclancy wrote: »

AFAIK over here anyway there are times that cops purposely drive up your a$$ trying to goad you into speeding

Happened to me about 15 years ago on the way from Cork to the Midlands to collect a cousin for my gran's funeral. Big long stretch of open road, I overtook an unmarked Camry under the limit and he pulled up my hole. I pulled away to put some space between us and the lights came on.

I should have pulled in to let him pass, but it was completing intentional on his part. Prick.

ironclaw

mikeecho wrote: »

but my tv and phone can detect that (tetra) band ....

i didn't think comreg issued a license for the reception of signals


and my AM/FM radio, and DAB radio can detect signals in a licensed band,

am i looking at jail time

Yes, you need a license to send and / or receive in frequency bands that are licensed. Tetra is a license & heavily protected band. The very act of having a receiver would be a criminal offence. It makes no difference whether that device can decryption, listen or just indicate the presence of a signal.

The reason you DAB radio etc can 'detect' Tetra, and the it isn't by the way, its picking up the harmonics, is purely down to a bad filter on the receiving antenna of your device. To accurately detect Tetra, you need to build an RF circuit specifically tuned to that band.

You can legally allowed own a radio scanner in Ireland. You can get units that can go from 50Hz to 60GHz. More than enough to receive all types of signals. However, its illegal to use it in frequency bands you are not licensed to receive on. And highly illegal to transmit on them.

I'd also like to point out, that depending on how this unit is constructed and how the receiver works, there is a possibility of RF leakage into the Tetra band. And that would be extremely illegal. Even if your talking about tiny RF leakage, it would be enough for ComReg and the courts to absolutely nail you to the wall. Before anyone points out that this doesn't transmit, I'm referring to how some receivers work on a circuit level.

I'm not really going to get into a huge argument on the internet about this but if you or anyone else want more info, PM me.

But for the record and for the thread, this device , I'm 99% sure, is illegal in Ireland.

Supergurrier

All sounds completely legit

rovoagho

The rhetoric on this subject is ridiculous. Sure, the hardware in question is retarded and ridiculously overpriced, but in general thousands of people have been using scanners or even transceivers to listen to things they shouldn't since radio was discovered. The suggestion that ComReg is going to hunt them all down is simply stupid, not least because they can't find their own holes with both hands.

Huckster

Why would you want to detect Garda cars?
Driving safely is in OUR interests, not simply something the Gardai enforce to piss us off.

keithclancy

rovoagho wrote: »

The rhetoric on this subject is ridiculous. Sure, the hardware in question is retarded and ridiculously overpriced, but in general thousands of people have been using scanners or even transceivers to listen to things they shouldn't since radio was discovered. The suggestion that ComReg is going to hunt them all down is simply stupid, not least because they can't find their own holes with both hands.

You mean like:

http://www.stalkerradar.com/spectreIV/redirect.html

Mycroft H

ironclaw wrote: »

Yes, you need a license to send and / or receive in frequency bands that are licensed. Tetra is a license & heavily protected band. The very act of having a receiver would be a criminal offence. It makes no difference whether that device can decryption, listen or just indicate the presence of a signal.

The reason you DAB radio etc can 'detect' Tetra, and the it isn't by the way, its picking up the harmonics, is purely down to a bad filter on the receiving antenna of your device. To accurately detect Tetra, you need to build an RF circuit specifically tuned to that band.

You can legally allowed own a radio scanner in Ireland. You can get units that can go from 50Hz to 60GHz. More than enough to receive all types of signals. However, its illegal to use it in frequency bands you are not licensed to receive on. And highly illegal to transmit on them.

I'd also like to point out, that depending on how this unit is constructed and how the receiver works, there is a possibility of RF leakage into the Tetra band. And that would be extremely illegal. Even if your talking about tiny RF leakage, it would be enough for ComReg and the courts to absolutely nail you to the wall. Before anyone points out that this doesn't transmit, I'm referring to how some receivers work on a circuit level.

I'm not really going to get into a huge argument on the internet about this but if you or anyone else want more info, PM me.

But for the record and for the thread, this device , I'm 99% sure, is illegal in Ireland.

What's the specific statute/S.I that forbids this? Not doubting you by any means, just interested in the specifics.

ironclaw

rovoagho wrote: »

The suggestion that ComReg is going to hunt them all down is simply stupid, not least because they can't find their own holes with both hands.

They can and do. Its just not in the mainstream news all that often.

Anyway, its not really ComReg you have to worry about. If you are found to have such device in your car, office or home that can detect the presence of Tetra i.e. The Garda. What is your defence in court? There is none. There is no legitimate reason to have such a device. Ambulance and Fire in Ireland don't currently deploy Tetra, so the only reason in having one is to detect the Gardai. And that is a really grey area.

keithclancy wrote: »

You mean like:

http://www.stalkerradar.com/spectreIV/redirect.html

Old tech and no longer relevant to current devices.

Oral Surgeon

BMJD wrote: »

sounds like bollox to me

No, I think that's just German

zenno

Don't mind all that crazy stuff, They never work, but... I'm in the process of working on a 1ft wide aerial drone that magnetises itself to the roof of my car on transit. This drone will have 1080p HD resolution relayed to a laptop & monitor in-car.

Before I leave my abode to rob a bank go on my travels, I will send the drone up remotely controlled and inspect the area of 1 mile for emergency vehicles. Once the coast is clear I will continue my voyage. Works perfectly all of the time, 100% guaranteed.

zenno

ironclaw wrote: »

They can and do. Its just not in the mainstream news all that often.

Anyway, its not really ComReg you have to worry about. If you are found to have such device in your car, office or home that can detect the presence of Tetra i.e. The Garda. What is your defence in court? There is none. There is no legitimate reason to have such a device. Ambulance and Fire in Ireland don't currently deploy Tetra, so the only reason in having one is to detect the Gardai. And that is a really grey area.



Old tech and no longer relevant to current devices.

All emergency vehicles are equipped with Tetra now.

ironclaw

Mycroft H wrote: »

What's the specific statute/S.I that forbids this? Not doubting you by any means, just interested in the specifics.

Its a case of if its license exempt, your fine to do whatever you want in the band. There are standards set however and most people adhere to them on an international basis.

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/exemptions.541.488.html

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/licensing.541.html

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1926/en/act/pub/0045/index.html

ironclaw

Its a case of if its license exempt, your fine to do whatever you want in the band. There are standards set however and most people adhere to them on an international basis.

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/exemptions.541.488.html

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/licensing.541.html

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1926/en/act/pub/0045/index.html[/QUOTE]

zenno wrote: »

All emergency vehicles are equipped with Tetra now.

Maybe there are but the UHF system is still in use as of today. So I have no idea if they are actively using it for day to day purposes in the form the Garda are.

zenno

ironclaw wrote: »

Its a case of if its license exempt, your fine to do whatever you want in the band. There are standards set however and most people adhere to them on an international basis.

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/exemptions.541.488.html

http://www.comreg.ie/radio_spectrum/licensing.541.html

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1926/en/act/pub/0045/index.html

Maybe there are but the UHF system is still in use as of today. So I have no idea if they are actively using it for day to day purposes in the form the Garda are.

I think the Garda and all other emergency units fire/ambulance using Tetra digital are using digital frequencies from 430mhz to 440mhz in the UHF band. All you get though is the computer digital noise on analogue radios.

Ireland Motorola / Dimetra TETRA Ireland Garda Siochana, HSE National Ambulance Service, Irish Prison Service, Irish Naval Service, Customs & Excise, Civil Defence. Nation-wide roll-out network complete. Roll out has begun on the HSE National Ambulance Service. The fire services are planning to implement in the coming years. As of July 2011, TETRA Ireland now operates the national Paging System.

I'd say they are all fully functional with the tetra roll-out by now. Now all we have to do is de-crypt the signals , and this is already happening.

Interesting article on receiving Tetra... Source: http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/TETRA-digital-radio-now-for-everyone-1254088.html

A small USB receiver, such as a Funcube dongle, can be inserted into a notebook, and software, like the OsmocomTETRA presented by Welte, could then be used by anyone to receive and listen to the TETRA radio communications of utilities and public transport providers. Insiders say that unknown parties have already done so, for example to record conversations between tram drivers and the control centre at Berlin's BVG public transport service, creating audio files that can be played back on any PC in the process.

Although sniffing around in third-party TETRA networks is not likely to become a popular sport – courts are likely to interpret such actions as criminal behaviour – Welte hopes that more security experts will deal with the new protocols. "Too many IT security people are still dealing with TCP/IP security even though there are a lot more communications systems", he told The H’s German associates at heise Security. Over the past few years, Harald Welte has himself developed security tools for RFID (openpcd.org), DECT (deDECTed.org) and GSM (OpenBSC, OSmocomBB). OsmocomTETRA is the latest addition to his collection.

Applied Research on security of real-world TETRA networks

Using the tools we develop, we are analysing the security of real-world TETRA networks.

Our experience so far is quite shocking: All the non-government TETRA networks that we have encountered use no TETRA encryption at all, i.e. they are subject to very easy eavesdropping attacks.

mikeecho

From what I understand, this device doesn't decrypt or intentionally interfere with any tetra broadcast.
It simply alerts to the presence of a signal (think of a sat finder)

I was curious to know whether it would only alert if the tx button was pressed when a tetra radio is in range
Or
Would it alert to the meet presence of a tetra unit.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ironclaw

Applied Research on security of real-world TETRA networks

Using the tools we develop, we are analysing the security of real-world TETRA networks.

Our experience so far is quite shocking: All the non-government TETRA networks that we have encountered use no TETRA encryption at all, i.e. they are subject to very easy eavesdropping attacks.

Just to highlight, this is not the case with Garda and secure systems, and this research was leveraged against non-government i.e. Public utility networks. There is such thing as civilian Tetra that does not employ secure safe guards. Tetra (or AirWave in the UK) uses a fairly high standard of encryption in policing / security applications. It was the driving force away from the analogue UHF system that was in place here.

biko

A CD in a string from the mirror, be grand.

mikeecho

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Only when the TX button is pressed..

The manufacture States that there is periodic communication between s tetra radio and it's base

Fred Swanson wrote: »

These devices don't work and could land you in sorts of bother with the law.

?
If it doesn't work.. How is it illegal

Oral Surgeon

mikeecho wrote: »

If it doesn't work.. How is it illegal

In the same way as trying to rob a bank is as bad as robbing a bank.... I'd say....

ironclaw

mikeecho wrote: »

If it doesn't work.. How is it illegal

Yes, they 'poll' the base station so the TX button does not have to be pressed.

Mike Echo, I've posted enough on this thread to highlight in clear terms this unit is illegal. I've even posted the legislation. I'm sorry. If you really want a unit such as this, you can fairly easily make one if you know anyone handy with a soldering iron and RF Electronics. Would be still illegal but would save you €1000's.