Was quiet, now loud and annoying?

LegacyUser

I'll jump right in. I'm a mid to late twenties female who was very shy growing up. I never felt like I fit in, so was always quiet around anyone who wasn't a close friend or family member. Some of my first memories are teachers telling me to 'speak up' and not to be so shy. I didn't improve much in secondary school and my teachers were frustrated - I was bright and capable but would never get up in front of the class, let alone the school, so missed out on a lot of opportunities such as debating, public speaking, choir, acting, all that stuff. I was way too shy and self-conscious and worse, I was so quiet that I was often considered rude or snobby and it made people uncomfortable.

Fast forward on a few years, I started college and in my second year went on Erasmus to Spain. the Spanish do not do 'shy' and I received endless comments about how quiet I was. I was staying with a family and every day they asked me was I unhappy, did I want them to arrange flights home, did I hate Spain...it made me really down because I was having a great time - it just wasn't obvious because I was so quiet! So I made a conscious decision to start talking and I did it bit by bit. By the time I returned to Ireland for third year, I was way more confident and actually spoke up in class without being called on, joined a few societies, talked to people I met randomly on campus..I still felt very uncomfortable in social situations, mentioned it to college counseling service who reckoned I have social anxiety. They encouraged me to keep getting out there and interacting with people and I have been doing that for the last 4 or so years. I thought I was doing really well - I have lots of friends and do lots of activities and am working in my dream job.

So where's the problem? Apparently now I am too 'vocal' and talk too much and it's annoying for some people. I don't know at what point I crossed the line from painfully shy to loud and annoying but it appears to have happened. My college counsellors encouraged me to verbalise my thoughts more and say what I thought but it doesn't seem to be working. I still have the social anxiety but now it seems to manifest itself in chattering away for too long and speaking for the sake of it, rather than not speaking at all. Why am I writing this post now? Well, I've had a few jibes at work over the last few months (most people seem to like me but a few blatantly don't) about talking too much, but my feelings were really hurt this morning. I was in the boss's office to pick up my payslip and he told me that it 'wasn't fair' for me to have 'taken up so much time' in the staff meeting. I was totally taken aback - I very rarely speak at all in these and only said a few things today because they very much related to my job. My boss said that was wrong and that I always dominate meetings and the staff room. I spent half an hour in tears in the toilet and confided in a colleague on my lunch break. She said the boss had been unfair and that I had indeed only said a few things, but that people seem to have the 'perception' that I'm loud and talk loads even though I don't really. Another colleague did speak for almost 10 minutes, and nobody pulled him up on it.

What do I do? I feel totally crushed. I had been feeling so much better about myself for finally being myself and getting out there, but it appears that people don't actually seem to like me much and that I'd have been better staying quiet.

milli milli

Op you poor thing. It seems you are trying to be yourself and in whatever guise be it quiet or loud, people are criticising or commenting on it.

The thing that I've learned as I've gotten older, is I care less about what people think of me. I am me, I choose to express myself whatever way I want. If people are unhappy about it or feel the need to comment, then I try not to let it get to me.

You feel as if you've made an improvement in your life by being less shy and more outgoing. Well done. Shyness is only a negative if it stops us from doing things. It's not a negative trait apart from this.

I think you are adjusting to your new way of life, maybe you are not quite at ease with it. I think if you were more at ease, then you wouldn't really be bothered my those people's comments.

Keep being you. Take a step back and see if you are actually hogging meetings. If you feel you aren't, then stand your ground. You shouldn't have to apologise for yourself.

superman28

I aggree with the other poster,, you shouldn't apologise for yourself..

However, from your post,, you need to realise that your boss might be right,, you might be hogging meetings,, he thinks you do,, so you should have said.. ''I didn't realise I was doing that,, but Il take it on board for next time'' end of story..

Try not to take critisims to heart,, they are for your benefit,, crying in work for 30 mins over this.. In my line of work I get brutal critisism but Its part of the job so no big deal,, learn from it.. Also, you sound a bit like me, in that you seem to want everyone to like you,, but in reality,, you can't make everyone happy,, you are the way you are,, once you look after yourself and others equally you will be fine.

Jack Skellington

Hey op, I get how you're feeling and it can be very frustrating sometimes, but like myself and many others I think you're falling into the trap of caring about the comments of people who aren't really worth your time.

I've found that the people who become genuine friends to me are the ones who don't comment on my personality or make little jibes, and I open up so much more to these people.

I agree with milli milli too, shyness isn't always a negative, even as a shy person myself at times I find it a very endearing quality in others.

Love this quote:

"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

dellas1979

superman28 wrote: »

Also, you sound a bit like me, in that you seem to want everyone to like you

I agree with this too. Did you change for yourself or for other people to like you?

Rather than agreeing/disagreeing/questioning your boss' comments, you went away and cried.

Now youve your thoughts together, Id go back to your boss and ask them what they expect in the meetings, as its supposed to be a forum (and other colleagues talk too). Telling you you talk too much is not constructive critcism. Its just criticism.

suicide_circus

I guess you lack practice in what is a socially palatable level of chatter? It's great you ve overcome your social anxiety and are able to talk. However, people rarely say "Jane talks an awful lot" unless Jane is talking a disproportionate amount. And if your boss said it to you, I have to believe you're talking a lot. People who talk a lot are generally viewed as self involved and insincere (empty vessels etc) I have no social anxiety but I don't really do small talk and only say something in work if it is of merit and then say it as briefly and concisely as possible. You just need to find a happy medium between shy mutism and hogging the soapbox.

Virgil°

Hi OP

I could have written your story myself. I used to be shy to the point of being mute and isolated. I resolved to change myself because i felt that being that way was making me miss out.

So like you, I changed myself. And I've met much the same situation as you. I have plenty of good friend and people who like me. And then a few who staunchly don't. And you know what? Fu*k em! In the nicest possible way. You'll NEVER get EVERYONE in this life to like you.There'll always be those who won't for whatever reason. So never apologise for that part of yourself.


Unfortunately it seems that your boss is one of those people. From what you describe he was totally out of order to call you out like that. Chatting that goes on in the canteen, as long as its not nasty or racist or something is completely your own business. He had some cheek to say that. Is there someone in HR that you could speak to about this? If not then I'd say just try forget about it and avoid being around him as much as possible.
Chin up, you're fine the way you are!

Virgil°

suicide_circus wrote: »

However, people rarely say "Jane talks an awful lot" unless Jane is talking a disproportionate amount. And if your boss said it to you, I have to believe you're talking a lot.

The OP gave no indication that she does the above. I've literally no idea why your first reaction was to side with her boss.

The only people in a position to tell her that she talks too much are those that are actually engaged in conversation with her.

LegacyUser

Virgil° wrote: »

The OP gave no indication that she does the above. I've literally no idea why your first reaction was to side with her boss.

The only people in a position to tell her that she talks too much are those that are actually engaged in conversation with her.

In fairness the op was engaged in conversation with the boss during the meeting and he felt she was talking too much. Added to that the op says a colleague told her on her lunch break that others had the perception that she was loud, so obviously other colleagues agree with the boss. The Op also says due to her social anxiety she tends to chatter on and on.

Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with being either introverted or extroverted but when you verge into the extreme of either end of the scale then it becomes a problem. Also Op while its great you're now more confident, there is a time and place for (without being disrespectful, and for lack of a better word) yabbering away, and a professional environment is not really it. Even if it does only take place during breaks unfortunately in that environment constant inane chatter can come across as office gossipy and a little on the obnoxious side.

OP Perhaps you haven't really controlled your anxiety if you find yourself having to fill silences with chatter just so you don't feel awkward. While not everyone is going to like you regardless of how quiet or shy you are, the most important thing is that you can emphasise with people. If you're finding yourself oblivious to others reactions/emotions while talking to them because you're so focused on your anxiety
, then perhaps that is why others may view you as loud. They may (for reasons that have nothing to do with you) may just not want to have to indulge you in chatter all the time. Think we've all been there, having problems in our personal life or whatever and having to listen to someone ramble on when we're just not in the mood.Perhaps its not so much that you're loud but that you're so wrapped up in yourself you don't pock up on peoples reactions/ moods/emotions?

Perhaps confiding in a close friend and asking to be honest with them if they think this may be the case, or if they've noticed you being too loud/overbearing is probably a good start.

LegacyUser

Virgil° wrote: »

The OP gave no indication that she does the above. I've literally no idea why your first reaction was to side with her boss.

The only people in a position to tell her that she talks too much are those that are actually engaged in conversation with her.

Well the issue posted is that people DO find the OP too talkactive, and her boss has said that - so that's only thing we can go on. Personally, I'd tone the chit-chat down, and keep talk in meetings strictly relevant.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies.

I agree that I probably do chatter on too much now, but I was just trying to be myself. I remember when I started talking and participating in conversations several years ago, I thought I was being really talkative and people still asked me if I was OK, why I was so quiet, etc. I was aware that I was coming across rude by being quiet (even when I honestly thought I was being chatty), and people thought I was judging them or thought I was better than them, so I made a huge effort to talk as much as other people and say what was on my mind. I got a lot of positive comments then and people saying it was really nice that I was more chatty. Especially at work, people said I had been way too quiet and that it was great to see the real me. So now I just feel totally lost and confused.

My colleague said it was unfair that some people seem to have the perception that I'm loud, btw. She said I really don't talk more than anyone else - there are some real loudmouths at work. I don't know why people think I never shut up. I asked my partner for an honest opinion and he said I talk a normal amount and my boss is just being horrid.

Now I really don't know what to think.

Virgil°

In fairness the op was engaged in conversation with the boss during the meeting and he felt she was talking too much. Added to that the op says a colleague told her on her lunch break that others had the perception that she was loud, so obviously other colleagues agree with the boss. The Op also says due to her social anxiety she tends to chatter on and on.

But if you read the OP this isn't what happened. She was involved in a general staff meeting and her boss pulled her up on taking too much time up where some other guy apparently took more time. I'd be more inclined to think that her boss has taken a disliking to her for whatever reason and was looking for an opportunity to have a go, however flimsy. Although admittedly we can't know.

Have you ever had a run in with this boss before OP?

Calm the talking wrote: »

Well the issue posted is that people DO find the OP too talkactive, and her boss has said that - so that's only thing we can go on. Personally, I'd tone the chit-chat down, and keep talk in meetings strictly relevant.

Not to drag the post off topic(I won't argue the point further mods!). But this IS what she said she did. That she kept the points in the meeting relevant. At which point her boss dragged her up on it, unfairly as far as i can see.

As to the other bits about being too chatty or loud well, we can't really know that other than that some people see her as being too chatty or loud. That a few people think shes being too chatty doesn't say anything really. Its not proof nor indication of anything. Loads of people blather when they get nervous, that's common as muck. And certainly not something the OP should be singled out for.


As before OP id just advise that you tread cautiously around this boss and stick to your work colleagues whom you get on with. And put this episode behind you.

dellas1979

Its simple.

If you are happy to keep chatting, keep chatting! You are way over analyzing what other people think of you now, due to 1 remark by your boss.

Maybe that carpet youd built for yourself isnt that stable as someone is trying to tugg it out. Look how easy it is to put you into a spiral of self doubt.

Ive told you what Id do. Id ask said boss can they explain further what they mean. You cant just go around and say to someone "you talk too much" at a meeting/forum where people are supposed to talk - there is nothing of value in that statement.

December2012

You may benefit from refining your communication. It's about quality - not quantity!

So be clear and succinct in work meetings - don't repeat yourself and think you have to full a time quota. Make your point clearly and then stop.

Communication does not equal talking.

Active listening, body language, taking turns at talking are all aspects.

Your boss is allowed to appraise and criticise you - take it constructively, not personally.

You don't know what he said to the other speaker, or maybe their point had more substance?

Stop overthinking it.

People don't think quiet people are rude, that is more likely to come from body language, moody face, no smiling, not being relaxed.

Take it constructively, it's not an insurmountable problem.

beks101

shytoloud wrote: »

I still have the social anxiety but now it seems to manifest itself in chattering away for too long and speaking for the sake of it, rather than not speaking at all.

I think this is pertinent to the problem.

There's nothing at all wrong with being chatty and outgoing and I applaud you for overcoming your shyness and developing this as a skill - it's a great one to have.

However, it sounds to me like the transfer of your anxiety from manifesting through shyness to now this inane "chattering" is at the core of why you've rubbed some people up the wrong way. It seems like you're missing social cues and not reading body language because you're so overcome with anxiety during these episodes, and that's why it's annoying people.

There's nothing wrong with being chatty at work - but there's a time and place. If you're "talking for the sake of talking" in the office, you'll likely be cutting in on other people's work time, not reading the signs that someone is busy, disinterested, annoyed, thus creating this reputation you seem to have for being "loud". Same goes for meetings - by all means have your say, in fact it's very important to, but not reading body language that colleagues aren't digesting your point of view or are uncomfortable or bored, will reflect on your reputation also. You'll be that woman who doesn't know when to shut up, loves the sound of her own voice, etc

I used to work with a girl like this - great conversationalist, great company, but never knew when enough was enough. I'd avoid her like the plague if I was busy coz I'd get stuck in a conversation with her and fall behind on my work. It would compromise my own professional reputation, to be "chatting" for too long when I should be working and no amount of glances at my computer screen or whatever would put a stop to her.

Things that can also affect how others see you are your tone of voice, the speed at which you talk (usually "fast talkers" are the ones that seem like "chatterboxes"), the volume, loose regard for others' personal space.

It's very hard to work on your communication skills when you're constantly being overtaken with anxiety, so I think you need to address that as priority. Perhaps finding a Cognitive Behavioural therapist or a psychologist who specialises in social anxiety might be something worth thinking about.

LegacyUser

December2012 wrote: »

You may benefit from refining your communication. It's about quality - not quantity!

So be clear and succinct in work meetings - don't repeat yourself and think you have to full a time quota. Make your point clearly and then stop.

Communication does not equal talking.

Active listening, body language, taking turns at talking are all aspects.

Your boss is allowed to appraise and criticise you - take it constructively, not personally.

You don't know what he said to the other speaker, or maybe their point had more substance?

Stop overthinking it.

People don't think quiet people are rude, that is more likely to come from body language, moody face, no smiling, not being relaxed.

Take it constructively, it's not an insurmountable problem.

I will try to do those things. It's very hard when you're an anxious person, though. It feels like nobody is willing to cut me any slack. I literally went from barely being able to leave the house and barely being able to join in a conversation to having a job, circle of friends and partner within a couple of years. Maybe I do chat on a bit too much but it seems so harsh that people truly dislike me because of it (and some people do).

Someone said I spiral into self-doubt easily - well yes I do. I'm still very insecure and not at ease with myself. But for me, being able to live a 'normal' life is a pretty huge challenge in itself.

A lot of people DO think quiet people are rude. I know other shy people who smile a lot and are still thought of as rude because they don't make the effort to join in. It is hard work for the other person who is trying to have a conversation with a mute. I realise that now myself. Anyway, in my case, yes I do have a fairly moody face because of the way my face sits when I'm feeling 'neutral' (corners of my mouth point down). What can I do about that though? I already try my best to try to smile a bit but I can't put on an expression 24/7 in case someone gets offended by my face.

coconut5

shytoloud wrote: »

I will try to do those things. It's very hard when you're an anxious person, though. It feels like nobody is willing to cut me any slack. I literally went from barely being able to leave the house and barely being able to join in a conversation to having a job, circle of friends and partner within a couple of years. Maybe I do chat on a bit too much but it seems so harsh that people truly dislike me because of it (and some people do).

Someone said I spiral into self-doubt easily - well yes I do. I'm still very insecure and not at ease with myself. But for me, being able to live a 'normal' life is a pretty huge challenge in itself.

A lot of people DO think quiet people are rude. I know other shy people who smile a lot and are still thought of as rude because they don't make the effort to join in. It is hard work for the other person who is trying to have a conversation with a mute. I realise that now myself. Anyway, in my case, yes I do have a fairly moody face because of the way my face sits when I'm feeling 'neutral' (corners of my mouth point down). What can I do about that though? I already try my best to try to smile a bit but I can't put on an expression 24/7 in case someone gets offended by my face.

I would say try to forget about it, and in a few days time, it will blow over. I know it is hurtful when your boss seems to be criticising an aspect of your personality - I wouldn't like it either. But is going round and round and worrying about it and overthinking it going to benefit you in the long run? Is it going to change anything? No.

Keep working on building yourself up. Interacting with people means you are going to get good and bad feedback. In your OP, you talk about how you made a conscious effort to change and all the good things it brought you - more friends, a partner, the confidence to join some college societies, and now you are working in your dream job! How many people can say that? So don't let a few niggles hold you back - we all get criticised sometimes, and sometimes it's deserved, and sometimes it isn't, but all you can do is take it on board but not let it control you or ruin the great life you've built for yourself.

Merkin

I wouldn't simply disregard and ignore the feedback from your boss and other people as to do so would not help your personal development.

You admit yourself that you had been socially awkward for years and took measures to change your ways. This is to be commended. However, it seems like you are now overcompensating and may not be aware of the nuances involved in effective, two-way communication that would come naturally to someone who is confident in how they interact with other people.

Half of good communication is the ability to listen and if you ramble on to fill the silence then it will a. get peoples backs up and b. not allow the others to express themselves either.

Someone else suggested CBT and I think it is an excellent idea - it would help you enormously OP. Don't let this recent feedback get you down, use it to your advantage and turn things around for yourself. You're already well on the journey to being a good communicator, you now just need to pull back a little