Must be the most regressive Law ever enacted in Ireland.

Xenophile

Must be the most regressive Law ever enacted in Ireland.


Number 11 of 1993


CRIMINAL LAW (SUICIDE) ACT, 1993


AN ACT TO ABOLISH THE OFFENCE OF SUICIDE, TO MAKE IT AN OFFENCE TO BE AN ACCOMPLICE TO SUICIDE AND TO REPEAL SECTION 9 OF THE SUMMARY JURISDICTION (IRELAND) AMENDMENT ACT, 1871. [9th June, 1993]

BE IT ENACTED BY THE OIREACHTAS AS FOLLOWS:

Short title and commencement.
1.—(1) This Act may be cited as the Criminal Law (Suicide) Act, 1993.

(2) This Act shall come into operation one month after the date of its passing.

Suicide.
2.—(1) Suicide shall cease to be a crime.

(2) A person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the suicide of another, or an attempt by another to commit suicide, shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

(3) If, on the trial of an indictment for murder, murder to which section 3 of the Criminal Justice Act, 1990 applies or manslaughter, it is proved that the person charged aided, abetted, counselled or procured the suicide of the person alleged to have been killed, he may be found guilty of an offence under this section.

(4) No proceedings shall be instituted for an offence under this section except by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Repeal.
3.—Section 9 of the Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Amendment Act, 1871 (amended by section 85 of the Courts of Justice Act, 1936 ) is hereby repealed.

I call for the repeal of the 1993 Suicide Act.

edanto

What would you recommend instead?

Xenophile

edanto wrote: »

What would you recommend instead?

Euthanasia!

P_1

My understanding of the law in question is that it's basically illegal not to act to prevent a suicide. That can be by walking past somebody about to jump off a bridge, not taking pills away from somebody, helping somebody acquire pills or even not saying, don't do it to somebody who's feeling suicidal.

I do think it is a regressive law but I guess something needs to be done to help prevent suicide (in any case) and that is what the government think is the best legal option

Think_then_talk

Not so long ago Marie Fleming lost her case in the Supreme Court.

She also has multiple sclerosis who is completely paralysed and
confined to a wheelchair, and wanted someone to help her die &
not be prosecuted.

If one was in hospital and was in pain they get palliative care from
medical personnel.

This is a very sad case I'm sure glad I'm not on the jury.

Think_then_talk

P_1 wrote: »

My understanding of the law in question is that it's basically illegal not to act to prevent a suicide. That can be by walking past somebody about to jump off a bridge, not taking pills away from somebody, helping somebody acquire pills or even not saying, don't do it to somebody who's feeling suicidal.

I do think it is a regressive law but I guess something needs to be done to help prevent suicide (in any case) and that is what the government think is the best legal option

No one can force you to assume a duty of care.
Even if you see even a baby lying down in a pool of water and walk on by
You only become legally responsible when you have assumed a duty of care or voluntary responsibility for that person.

Xenophile

P_1 wrote: »

My understanding of the law in question is that it's basically illegal not to act to prevent a suicide. That can be by walking past somebody about to jump off a bridge, not taking pills away from somebody, helping somebody acquire pills or even not saying, don't do it to somebody who's feeling suicidal.

I do think it is a regressive law but I guess something needs to be done to help prevent suicide (in any case) and that is what the government think is the best legal option

That was 20 years ago and as I remember it was not a particularly enlightened government.

Iwasfrozen

Xenophile wrote: »

That was 20 years ago and as I remember it was not a particularly enlightened government.

Often who are suicidal aren't thinking straight. How do we determine who is of a sound mind to decide they want to die?

Xenophile

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Often who are suicidal aren't thinking straight. How do we determine who is of a sound mind to decide they want to die?

Let me turn around the question...........how do we decide for people who find life unbearable that we force them to suffer until they die?

P_1

Xenophile wrote: »

Let me turn around the question...........how do we decide for people who find life unbearable that we force them to suffer until they die?

Are you talking about mental or physical illness here out of interest?

I guess the state has a duty of care to the general public to try cut down on early mortality and attempts to reduce suicide would fall under that duty of care

K-9

Mod:

Please refrain from discussing ongoing court cases, general discussion is fine.

Iwasfrozen

Xenophile wrote: »

Let me turn around the question...........how do we decide for people who find life unbearable that we force them to suffer until they die?

Psychological testing I suppose but don't ask me to elaborate on technique. I'm no psychiatrist.

timthumbni

I saw a tv program a few years ago about an English couple going over to Switzerland to a Dignitas clinic that is set up legally to assist those who want to end their lives.

The husband had been diagnosed with some terminal illness that was progressively getting worse and would eventually leave him unable to move etc.

It was hard to watch as it showed him taking the drink that would finally lay him to rest. He was a bit of a stiff upper lip type and was so calm and polite at the end it was unbelievable. His wife held his hand the whole time.

Now the sad thing is he could have had a few more good months left in him before the illness really took hold but due to the uk law he knew he had to be seen to be able to go to Switzerland on his own physically or else his wife could have got into bother.

I think the whole issue needs to be examined again as it's very clear that a lot of people do not wish to go on living after contracting certain progressively debilitating illnesses. Why should society force these people to suffer endless torture when they don't want to?

Akrasia

One of the saddest things about death is that the manner of someone's passing can have a really pronounced effect on how we remember them after they are gone.

If someone suffers a long and drawn out death that lasts months or years then like it or not, when your loved ones remember you, they won't be able to help associating your memory with how they remember you at the end. If you are unfortunate enough to have a degenerative disease then your last days/months years will see you as a shadow of your former self.

On the other hand, if you are given the choice to die with dignity at a time and manner of your choosing, then you can create memories for your loved ones where they get to say good bye to you properly and their memory of you is of someone who accepted their fate with dignity and spent their dying moments surrounded by the people you loved.

I know 100% which of the two scenarios above I would prefer for myself and my loved ones.

RDM_83 again

Xenophile wrote: »

Euthanasia!

I am a bit conflicted on the issue of Assisted suicide (what they have in Switzerland).

But though its generally mocked I do think the slippery slope argument has to be made in in regards to Euthanasia.
As an example this case in Belgium and their potential extension of Euthanasia to minors

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/death-of-twin-brothers-fuels-debate-over-belgian-euthanasia-law-1.1334860

edanto

I tend to agree.

If a culture develops where it becomes in any way common for sick people to be assisted in their suicide, then how much pressure does that put on other people that are sick and have loved ones caring for them?

If I were in that situation, I'd feel some pressure to fall in line and take the financial and emotional pressure off those caring for me. Personally, I don't have the security blanket of a belief in an afterlife, so I really would be choosing to turn out the lights.

So, for reasons that are ultimately selfish, I'm against euthanasia.

For cases of assisted suicide, I believe the circumstances of the case should determine if a blind eye is turned or if punishment is appropriate. The very fact that suggestion isn't legally viable should make it even more clear that I'm not a suitable person to be making that judgement.

Xenophile

Repeal the act and let things stand as they were pre 1993.

P_1

Xenophile wrote: »

Repeal the act and let things stand as they were pre 1993.

Huh, criminalizing people who attempt or commit suicide?

Xenophile

P_1 wrote: »

Huh, criminalizing people who attempt or commit suicide?

No, crimnalising people who have committed suicide

P_1

Xenophile wrote: »

No, crimnalising people who have committed suicide

What possible purpose would that serve?

Cookie_Monster

P_1 wrote: »

What possible purpose would that serve?

would it not have negative effects on their will and assets if they were classed as a criminal?

SeanW

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

would it not have negative effects on their will and assets if they were classed as a criminal?

One presumes they would have to have been taken to trial and found guilty of the crime first ... which may be rather difficult, seeing as we don't try dead people.