Damage to a National Monument

bawn79

Hi All,

I've just discovered some significant damage to a national monument here in North Tipp (probably due to a combination of cattle using it as a scratching post and marshy ground conditions).

Who do I contact in this regard and realistically is anything likely to be done in the short-term?

Fries-With-That

bawn79 wrote: »

Hi All,

I've just discovered some significant damage to a national monument here in North Tipp (probably due to a combination of cattle using it as a scratching post and marshy ground conditions).

Who do I contact in this regard and realistically is anything likely to be done in the short-term?

01 8882000 is the number of the National Monuments Service, or you can email them at nationalmonuments@ahg.gov.ie

Akhenaten

Hi Bawn79,

You can contact the National Monuments Service: http://archaeology.ie/ContactUs/

They can send out a Monument Protection Officer for your area or County.

Give them as much information about the monument as you can(pictures if possible).

I'm not sure what realistically can be done however.If cattle are damaging it,then maybe they may insist that the landowner fence-off the monument,but I'm not sure?

Hope this helps!

cfuserkildare

Hey folks,

The same issue is happening at the Rathmore Motte in county Kildare.

I reported the opened Grave on my post named Rathmore, and now have a second report in with them regarding the Rathmore Motte which is in a field of sheep and horses which is being damaged by the live-stock.

Still awaiting response for the latter.

Cheers.

bawn79

Akhenaten wrote: »

Hi Bawn79,

You can contact the National Monuments Service: http://archaeology.ie/ContactUs/

They can send out a Monument Protection Officer for your area or County.

Give them as much information about the monument as you can(pictures if possible).

I'm not sure what realistically can be done however.If cattle are damaging it,then maybe they may insist that the landowner fence-off the monument,but I'm not sure?

Hope this helps!

I found an email address on archaeology.ie and I've got a response. As you say in this case hopefully something can be done with a fence. I do wonder whether they will put the stone up again. Would be a crying shame if they didn't. I thought maybe someone might have contact details for the local Monument Protection Officer.

Akhenaten

bawn79 wrote: »

I found an email address on archaeology.ie and I've got a response. As you say in this case hopefully something can be done with a fence. I do wonder whether they will put the stone up again. Would be a crying shame if they didn't. I thought maybe someone might have contact details for the local Monument Protection Officer.

Hi Bawn79,

I'm not sure who the Monuments Protection Officer for your locality is?Are you in the Tipperary area?I know someone in the National Monuments Service and can contact him to find out,if you wish?I know he's up to his eyes at present with inspections,so it may be a day or two before I hear from him!However,whoever you liaised with via email earlier should contact the Monuments Protection Officer on your behalf.

I know some of the inspectors tend to have quite large catchment areas/jurisdictions(for want of better words!),so it may be several weeks before someone can inspect the monument you're concerned about.

All the best.

bawn79

Akhenaten wrote: »

Hi Bawn79,

I'm not sure who the Monuments Protection Officer for your locality is?Are you in the Tipperary area?I know someone in the National Monuments Service and can contact him to find out,if you wish?I know he's up to his eyes at present with inspections,so it may be a day or two before I hear from him!However,whoever you liaised with via email earlier should contact the Monuments Protection Officer on your behalf.

I know some of the inspectors tend to have quite large catchment areas/jurisdictions(for want of better words!),so it may be several weeks before someone can inspect the monument you're concerned about.

All the best.

Akhenaten - I and the monument are in North Tipperary. Its Barbaha / Carrigeen stone row - a lovely 3 stone row near Portroe. Unfortunately one of the stones has fallen / been knocked by cattle.
If you do happen to know someone - it might be a help to move things along. As I was saying above - do these stones actually be re-erected or what happens?

Akhenaten

bawn79 wrote: »

Akhenaten - I and the monument are in North Tipperary. Its Barbaha / Carrigeen stone row - a lovely 3 stone row near Portroe. Unfortunately one of the stones has fallen / been knocked by cattle.
If you do happen to know someone - it might be a help to move things along. As I was saying above - do these stones actually be re-erected or what happens?

Hi Bawn79,

I've just sent an email to my friend in the NMS.If he's in the office this morning,he should get back to me fairly quickly(here's hoping!).I'm not sure who's responsibility it is to ensure the stone is set upright again,but I've asked him as such and we'll find out soon enough.I'll keep you posted.

bawn79

Hi all,

For those maybe interested I got the following response yesterday. I was a bit disappointed by the last line.



"An archaeologist from the National Monuments Service will inspect this site as soon as possible. As the site is privately owned property, the agreement of the landowner will be sought prior to inspecting.



In the meantime, we would like to emphasise that the stone must not be either moved or re-erected other than in compliance with section 12 of the National Monuments (Amendment) Act 1994. Also, as this monument is not one of which the Minister is owner or guardian, the Minister has no function in regard to its maintenance."

cfuserkildare

Surely, Irispective of the land, A national Monument is a National Monument!

If a farmer decides to bull-doze a mound on his own land does that mean the Minister can do nothing?

Seems a bit selective to me!

JimmyOats

The Minister has no function in relation to the maintenance of a monument on private land, unless the monument in question is within guardianship (in which case the OPW is responsible for looking after it).

Don't forget there are well over 100,000 monuments in Ireland, the vast majority of which are on private land. The State cannot maintain them all.

In addition, do not confuse maintenance with protection - all monuments on the Record of Monuments and Place, the Register of Historic Monuments and all those in the ownership or guardianship of the Minister or subject to a Preservation Order or Temporary Preservation Order are fully protected.

bawn79

JimmyOats wrote: »

The Minister has no function in relation to the maintenance of a monument on private land, unless the monument in question is within guardianship (in which case the OPW is responsible for looking after it).

Don't forget there are well over 100,000 monuments in Ireland, the vast majority of which are on private land. The State cannot maintain them all.

In addition, do not confuse maintenance with protection - all monuments on the Record of Monuments and Place, the Register of Historic Monuments and all those in the ownership or guardianship of the Minister or subject to a Preservation Order or Temporary Preservation Order are fully protected.

Does anyone know what happens in cases such as these? Is there any hope on it being put back up?
Is it a case of having to attract someones interest to its plight ie local historical groups or newspapers?
Anyone know of anything similar to this and how it was progressed?

Akhenaten

bawn79 wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens in cases such as these? Is there any hope on it being put back up?
Is it a case of having to attract someones interest to its plight ie local historical groups or newspapers?
Anyone know of anything similar to this and how it was progressed?

I don't mean to sound cynical,but unless someone stumps up the cold,hard cash for the excavation and subsequent remedial works,then it's unlikely anything positive is going to happen in this particular case.I think getting a local historical group on board could be a good move!However,if they can't encourage the powers that be and/or the landowner to part with the 'dosh' then their only option is to fundraise.That in itself would be an interesting exercise - will those in the wider community actually give a damn about a stone that has been knocked over by a cow in a field??

Cfuser's thread 'Rathmore' seems to clearly outline the apathy that now exists in modern Irish society towards cultural heritage issues.

bawn79

Akhenaten wrote: »

I don't mean to sound cynical,but unless someone stumps up the cold,hard cash for the excavation and subsequent remedial works,then it's unlikely anything positive is going to happen in this particular case.I think getting a local historical group on board could be a good move!However,if they can't encourage the powers that be and/or the landowner to part with the 'dosh' then their only option is to fundraise.That in itself would be an interesting exercise - will those in the wider community actually give a damn about a stone that has been knocked over by a cow in a field??

Cfuser's thread 'Rathmore' seems to clearly outline the apathy that now exists in modern Irish society towards cultural heritage issues.

That's what I was kinda afraid might be the result. Hopefully it won't come to that.
In terms of hard cash, it couldn't be that expensive could it? Literally a few guys (without excavation) would put it up in a morning.

Akhenaten

bawn79 wrote: »

That's what I was kinda afraid might be the result. Hopefully it won't come to that.
In terms of hard cash, it couldn't be that expensive could it? Literally a few guys (without excavation) would put it up in a morning.

I'm sure the NMS would insist it be carried out to the letter of the law ie. it would need to be properly excavated before it's set upright again.

An excavation wouldn't take long to be fair,but I'm not sure it would be cheap either!

robp

bawn79 wrote: »

That's what I was kinda afraid might be the result. Hopefully it won't come to that.
In terms of hard cash, it couldn't be that expensive could it? Literally a few guys (without excavation) would put it up in a morning.

Its a long shot but maybe if some archaeology dept or a field school was running a training excavation it could be excavated and restored.