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Do you have mud on your weesatch?

  • 19-11-2013 2:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    Apologies for the thread-title folks, it's a bit of an in-house joke, but it's also the point of the musing that has lead me to this post.

    Often, people post questions on boards (and elsewhere; as boards is hardly the font of all knowledge - please don't smite me DeV) about how they can get the most out of this piece of kit, or the other piece of kit, or their AEG or whatever. All perfectly reasonable questions of course. Despite the drive, desire, and the incurred costs to get the absolute best performance out of a gun or a radio, or some other piece of kit, there is one observation that puzzles me (having spent much time observing it as a marshal) despite my encouraging players to do it to give themselves an advantage - which most then invariably fail to do.

    What is it Batman? Some sort of tactical stealth-cloak? A ghilli-suit that folds out of your hood? A new AEG that allows you to be Mark Walhberg in Shooter? No, none of the above. Simply go prone.

    Holy weesatch-caked-in-mud Batman!

    Yes Robin, go prone.

    But how do you figure that Batman?

    *ahem* Apologies for that slightly threatrical delivery :D

    Anyway, to what I wanted to say. Whilst this should be prefaced with the caveat that it's more for woodland than urban, and any applicability in CQB is *really* limited, it all comes down to common sense at the end of the day as to whether or not you find yourself in a situation where going prone will give you an edge.

    I shouldn't need to spell out why going prone is an obviously useful, and very under-rated/overlooked thing to do. It makes you a smaller target front-on, it removes the tell-tale signature shape of boots, body, etc. and makes you harder to spot because you tend not to be moving, or moving very low to the ground. It also tends to give you a fairly stable "platform" from which to fire. And yes, you may get dirty. Yes you may get dirt on your lovely, clean, weesatch and pouches. Yes you may even get a little damp. But you gain as much of an edge from it as spending a small fortune on upgrading AEG internals, and all for free.

    Whilst it's obvious that going prone (or for the rest of you; lying down) makes you a smaller target, it does make you start to think about how you organise & carry your kit.

    There are three 'core' types of battle order that you will see at airsoft sites up and down the length of any given country; namely
    • Harness/Belt-order
    • Plate carriers
    • Vests
    Of the three above, plate carriers & vests are the most common, but the manner in which most airsofters consider using them means that such battle-order is also more suited to what is termed "upright" fighting, i.e. you don't spend much - if any time - dropping below your knee.

    Why?

    Such rig setups usually have an impressive array of mag pouches,radio pouches, & even holsters, etc. strapped to the front area meaning that going prone leaves your chest and head sitting wayyyyy, wayyyyy up out there like targets when all you want to do is get low and make out with the dirt to avoid the rather accurate BB hose that's firing in your direction. So what can you do besides dig?

    With vests, it's a bit hit or miss as many vests tend to have fitted/stitched pouches so you're a bit out of luck. That said, I still like vests because they allow for better movement than plate-carriers in my opinion. But for those of you with plate carriers, it comes down to considering how you lay out pouches around your carrier. Do you really need two layers of magazine pouches when one plus better use of semi-auto will do? Do you have space elsewhere on your carrier (e.g. sides & back) for that radio pouch, etc.

    Before I continue, I need to say this, and it should be kind of obvious, but just because you have loads of molle space available doesn't mean you need to cram every available slot with pouches, clips, admin panels, and tactical haribo holders (although haribo is always welcome). So with that in mind, another possible notion for those users of plate carriers is the use of blast belts in addition to your carrier for mounting pouches, which will naturally end up sat around either side of the hips, thus freeing up the front of your carrier to allow you better ability to go prone and not be left with your head held up like a meerkat. Of course, whilst this might seem like a happy mix of harness/belt & carrier, in the real world this practice is being used more frequently because the plate carriers .. .well .. they carry armour plates. Airsofters don't need plates of course, so your plate carrier starts to become a bit of an expensive accessory if you feel that every square inch of the front of your carrier should otherwise be covered in pouches.

    The last option is the harness/yoke + belt combination (or variants there-in). This tends to see most pouches sat around the hips and back allowing the wearer to get very low to the ground. As someone who tends to use support guns a lot, this is very useful, although I know a handful of airsofters who enjoy their sniper-craft and use belts with ghillie-suits to allow for better movement. The only comment I would make about using belts is to bear in mind that if you don't have some sort of harness (there are lightweight, thin ones that can fit under plates/jackets/etc.) and you have that belt absolutely loaded with stuff, you may find yourself getting tripped up by it as it slides down around your ankles ;)

    All said and done, it's all down to personal preference, the environment you find yourself in, and your preference for playing airsoft. But hopefully I've given some food for thought on how you lay-out your webbing and that the ability to go prone is really not used enough by airsofters despite ever constant drive to tinker with guns at great cost to gain an edge.

    Personally speaking, I use a belt & harness most of the time, although if I am playing exclusive CQB I sometimes switch (if I can be arsed) to a vest or use a belt for faster movement.

    Anyway, apologies for the rambling and hopefully it's a starting point for discussion.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭ Southern Dandy


    Personally I use a chest rig for my ammo, radio etc and because quite simply I like the look and a belt/harness for utility pouches and a holster. I have good mobility and range of movement using my set-up so am happy out. It is at the end of the day what works best for you.

    One thing that drives me mad though is people with big eff off carriers or even chest rigs that hang off them, almost down to their knee. Just adjust the bloody thing!!!!!!!!!.


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭✭ FizzyCola


    I use a plate carrier and try to keep ammo pouches up high to make kneeling easier especially on my right knee. I don't seem to have a problem getting low to the ground, getting back up quickly is the hard part.

    On occasion I go crazy and don't bother with any loading bearing equipment except for pants and shirt pockets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,296 ✭✭✭✭ Witcher


    Don't airsoft anymore but when I played regularly I used to use a plate carrier but when I moved to more infrequent skirmishing I used an old tac vest that just holds mags, threw the pistol in one of the pouches and went with that. If I went back to gaming I'd use the same vest. Still have the plate carriera and if i was going to a game where you had to carry all your ammo etc. with you I'd use them.

    Think everyone goes through a period of plate carriers and loading them down with everything you have to simulate troops in Afghanistan etc. then they get a pain in the balls hauling it around and strip it all off.

    As Southern Dandy said..hate seeing people with a Ciras etc. down to their mid chest. The weight just drags on you then instead of being supported by your chest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭ S.E.A.L.s


    Lemming wrote: »
    Do you have mud on your weesatch?

    Yes, yes I do and I'm not called Honey Badger for being hard to kill (used very lightly) or amazing at Airsoft, it's because I spend game time on the ground scanning and searching for my next target

    Also, if I had a pound for every person who gave the all clear or just walked by, while I'm still prone and ready to light up their world, I'd be minted ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    One thing that drives me mad though is people with big eff off carriers or even chest rigs that hang off them, almost down to their knee. Just adjust the bloody thing!!!!!!!!!.
    Blay wrote: »
    As Southern Dandy said..hate seeing people with a Ciras etc. down to their mid chest. The weight just drags on you then instead of being supported by your chest.

    +1 on that. I forgot to add a section on taking time to adjust your kit. The amount of times (and I did it myself the first couple of times) I've seen people fighting with new kit is insane; they spent more time fighting it than the opposition!

    Spending a little time getting your webbing adjusted right so that it doesn't flap around when you move/run/jump/cartwheel head-over-heels through a window goes a very long way.

    And on that note; for those users of belt order out there; if you don't already use it, bungee straps help keep your pouches bunched up and not flapping all over the shop.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 986 se conman


    A TIGHT belt with 3 double mag pouches crving around the left hip, a GOOD fitting drop-leg holster on the outside of the right hip and a dump pouch hanging low at the back (protects me a**e). Enough ammo, clear chest for getting down and dirty and nothing moves and the most important thing, a change of clothes. There is almost nothing better than getting a kill and hearing the talk later "Did ya see yer man on his belly crawling through 6 inches of muck? No, not till he shot me."


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭ thermo


    Lemming wrote: »
    And on that note; for those users of belt order out there; if you don't already use it, bungee straps help keep your pouches bunched up and not flapping all over the shop.

    Yeah a bungee and one of these
    http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=190942193452


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭ Lemming


    thermo wrote: »

    What do you use the strap for? I work the bungjee ends/hooks through the back of my belt & pouches - granted it helps that I'm using a blast belt so have plenty of molle loops available, so perhaps it's something specific to old-school belt/yoke rigs?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭ thermo


    Back in the day....... ( we are issued vests now) when setting up our CEFO we would run the strap through the loops on the pouches nearest your body and run the bungee on the outside of the pouches, the bungee being on the outside stopped the contents of you pouches shifting as well as stopping the pouches bouncing.

    If i can find them it ill post pics of my second set i had bought with the strap and bungee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,378 ✭✭✭✭ Gatling


    Got fed up with vests altogether 9 different vest/plate carrier's in 7 years ,
    From SAAV to MTV USMC set up,
    hate each one equally find them all either uncomfortable and Ill fitting in one way or another ,
    Only find carriers handy for keeping warm in winter oddly enough ,
    Most people don't know how to fit most vests properly they buy load up then squeeze into them,
    Personally I prefer my pouches around my stomach/waist line rather than on my chest ,but if your carrying weight it can look completely wrong with kit on your chest with a gut sticking out,

    Suppose it comes down to preference and comfort ,

    I want to be mobile more than anything ,I want to be able to run ,crawl and shoot without snagging being squeezed or restricted in anyway ,
    Right now I want an a rig that i can fit for pouches Sig/G36 double up's ,
    A decent belt and maybe a leg rig with a single kydex holster,
    All has to be value for money

    Langley , Virginia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 707 Drachnien


    I use a standard FLC vest but as my favorite gear tends to be a 40mm launcher it's pretty much covered in 40mm pouches, about 20 40mm and 4 hand grenades. I've tried several things for them and nothing is as good as the standard grenadier load out for me mostly due to the sheer amount of weight i'm carrying.

    If I'm not using the launcher I normally don't bother with a vest.

    one thing to add to the going prone is learning how to crawl while keeping close to the ground. Takes practice to keep your rear down ;)


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