Advice

Jimmymcnulty86

If anybody could help me out or any current assistant pros/pros on boards could give me advice it would very much appreciated and be truthful.
Myself I'm 28 and took up golf just over two years ago and to say I'm obsessed would be an understatement:). I've got my handicap down to 3(3.3) and am seriously considering trying to get into golf as a teaching (pga)pro. I currently work as a bar manager and the thoughts of spending my 30's nd beyond working on a golf course instead of a busy pub appeals much more.
I have no contacts in golf apart from friends who I'm a better player than, the pro in my club wouldn't be the most helpful nd I kinda don't want be laughed at if I ask ny other pros that I don't know.
Am I too old??, is it hard to get a club if accepted onto the training programme??, I don't have the required education is there a mature student route like in college??, how good are the guys on the irish pga circuit(would love to work/ teach golf but keep on playing aswel)??
Thanks in advance nd sorry if this is a knieve post as I said no background or contacts in golf worked in construction/pubs all my life just love the game.

Rodrigo

If you only got your handicap down to 3 in just over two years I wouldn't hold out much hope for you in your golfing dream, your true vocation is probably pulling pints, give up the the ghost and get back to the bar.

Jimmymcnulty86

Thanks for that rodrigo ure an inspiration I'm just gutted that I'll only know u on a chat room nd not in real life. I've a feeling u wouldn't say that if I was stood in front of you though

kyleman

Ignore that Jimmy, Rodrigo might not even be a pro.

Rodrigo

Good man Jimmy, a terrific second post from you on boards. Well done.

Jimmymcnulty86

Well my third and final post will be even better, Rodrigo u are a Wanker.
That was a great boards experience haha thought this was a forum for adults anyway goodnight and godbless il look for advice elsewhere nd keep workin on my game

ShriekingSheet

Hi Jimmy,

Ability as a player has become less of a prerequisite for good coaches over the last decade or two. As a 3 handicap, youre in the ball park of a lot of local assistant pros, and the reality is, of the many pros who are/were far better players than you'll ever be, lots of them are brutal teachers. You could probably learn enough to be a decent coach without much bother.

Where I think you might have a concern is your lack of contacts generally, and of existing pros. To get anywhere in the profession, teaching in Ireland, you firstly need a head pro in a club willing to take you on as an assistant. Then you need some kind of network of people who'd come to you for lessons.

You can start from scratch, but a lot of young pros would have some kind of group built up along the way.

Essentially, the golf bit I wouldn't worry about, it's the business and contacts bit you'd need a clear idea of.

Why not just go to the Irish PGA if you've queries?

ImDave

@Jimmy - Don't mind someone telling you that you can't achieve what you want, in particular when they don't know anything about you or your game.

I don't know anything about your game and ability either, but I know of one guy who became a PGA Teaching Pro at the age of 45. Getting down to 3 having never played two years previously is a fair achievement by the way.

For Paws

@Jimmy. Don't give up on boards just yet.

As said above, getting down to 3 is a fantastic achievement and I reckon that shows you're a very determined & hard working person.

The working life of an assistant pro is not a glamorous one and in an economy where Clubs can't pay any Pro, let alone an assistant, it's going to take a lot of determination to find a spot for yourself.
Remember that teaching is not for everybody, but maybe it might suit you.

Try contacting the Irish PGA by email pgainireland@pga.org.uk
and ask them to send you any information they have on becoming a PGA Pro.

and

Good Luck !

GreeBo

Rodrigo banned for a week.

Dont respond to Trolls, leave it to the mods please.

Jimmymcnulty86

Thank you very much the last two posters. Think my mind has gone into overdrive the past few weeks after some good shooting nd gettin below 4. Although I think my handicap flatters me a bit as I'm very comfortable on my own course nd have a strong short game.
I'm going to e-mail them now see how that goes.
Ye contacts is a problem having never played junior or team events pity I didn't take it up as a kid, but I've read a lot on mechanics of the swing / equipment so if I meet someone I could at least sound like I know a bit:).
Thanks again going to keep working at it nd ny more advice tips would be much appreciated.

m r c

Go for it mate. If I had your ability I'd do it. And I have a wife and two young kids. It might be a challenge to get a club but if golf is your dream go for it to ****. You aren't too old either. If you got down to 3 in two years from a cold start I'd be shocked if you haven't got it in you. Don't listen to knobs laughing when you talk about turning pro.

Afaik there is a competency test over two rounds where in the region of 10-13 over passes you for the pga coaching school.

You prob wouldn't make it on tour but you could have a career in the game if you work your butt off. Dream big mate f the begrudges.

Ronney

Have a look here, alot of the training done over in the belfry for Ireland

http://www.pga.info/pga-professional/how-to-become-a-pga-professional.aspx

Gin77

Did you ever consider the USA?
A lot more opportunities in golf I reckon.

Dr_Colossus

Firstly, serious going to get to 3 handicap in two years, what did you start out at as a matter of interest? Either way well done.

The below thread and blog may be of interest.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87405929
It describes Tin_Cup and his ambition of lowering his handicap to <4 and then trying out for the PGA teaching pro ability course. He's a couple of years older but working in the industry so may be able to offer some advice.

Rikand

If you're into it, go for it!

When I was jobless and career-less and playing off 4 I thought about it for a while but the big thing that turned me off was not being able to play every sunday morning with my friends cause I'd likely be working in some shop somewhere staring out all the lucky feckers going to play. I wouldnt be able to enter the same competitions as them either.

But if you can get over that, then I say go for it

Redzah

Ya, I think go for it as well. Play ability test and a couple of years college (part time i think) while working as an assistant pro is the basic needs. The hardest part will be getting a pro to take you on, have a look at the GUI website to see if they are advertising any vacancies and after that just start contacting people expressing your interest (cold call if you need to).

In relation to the Irish PGA standard, it is mixed. It is quite strong at the top end as there are Irish open invites and other European tour invites for the top 3-5 on their order of merit so there are about 20ish top pro's who have progressed from a strong and representative amateur career. However, after these top 20 it can be mixed. At a 3 handicap and based on your own admittance that 3 may be flattering then you would be there to make up the numbers (without a serious improvement) but it would be an enjoyable experience.

Financially the life of a Golf pro and an assistant pro is tough with minimal wages being paid by clubs so you may find yourself back in the bars to augment your low income as a golf pro, if you are single and it will make you happy bearing this in my then go for it. However, you will have to develop a significant reputation as a teaching pro, be a serious wheeler and dealer if you go a shop route and get into a wealthy and/or reputable golf club if you want to live reasonable comfortably. Probably all 3.

mike12

Say the guys working in Driving ranges rather that at clubs have to making a decent wage. Every time i ring up they are often booked for most evenings of the week. 5/6 lessons a day @€;30 each is ok money and would still leave you with plenty of time to play.
Great shooting to get down to 3 and you will still be improving most pros can't break par to you will be in good company.
Mike

FixdePitchmark

Great going on getting that low so quick.

As people have said there are so many different options - of what to do as a pro - teach , play , work for club company, a shop, lessons.

But so many have got badly stung from the downturn. Even very prestigious golf courses cut the pro first.

I honestly don't think it is as glamours as it looks as an outsider. If you could somehow talk to one of them - you have come to the right place and will get good advice here.

I'm just posting this to show you the standard on Irish PGA.

http://pgaireland.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/pgaireland13/event/pgaireland1374/contest/1/leaderboard.htm

Rippeditup

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Great going on getting that low so quick.

As people have said there are so many different options - of what to do as a pro - teach , play , work for club company, a shop, lessons.

But so many have got badly stung from the downturn. Even very prestigious golf courses cut the pro first.

I honestly don't think it is as glamours as it looks as an outsider. If you could somehow talk to one of them - you have come to the right place and will get good advice here.

I'm just posting this to show you the standard on Irish PGA.

http://pgaireland.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/pgaireland13/event/pgaireland1374/contest/1/leaderboard.htm

Mad to see guys like David Jones @ +11 and missing the cut. When we where juniors he was a +3 handicapper and winning everything...

The life of the normal club pro is something that doesn't interest me at all, unless you make a top tour you are struggling to make ends meat and spending cold evenings trying to teach hopeless souls how to hit a white ball in a straight line over and over.

Go for it if you you have the passion for it but its not a way to play more and make the €€€€€ these days.

PARlance

Rippeditup wrote: »

Mad to see guys like David Jones @ +11 and missing the cut. When we where juniors he was a +3 handicapper and winning everything...

The life of the normal club pro is something that doesn't interest me at all, unless you make a top tour you are struggling to make ends meat and spending cold evenings trying to teach hopeless souls how to hit a white ball in a straight line over and over.

Go for it if you you have the passion for it but its not a way to play more and make the €€€€€ these days.

Mad to see Hazel Kavanagh from Carr/Spawell on +11 with him... she seems to be the only lady pro on there

PARlance

Fair Play so far Jimmy, the one advantage you have, and others seemed to have missed it is that, if you have spent you're life working in bars, that will stand as very good training for giving golf lessons.

People coming to you will be just as depressed, just as delusional, ok maybe not as drunk as the lads at the bar. You still need to be a shoulder to cry on or whip them into shape when it's getting embarrassing
I joke, but being a bar manager should mean you have the people skills and business know how to help you out.

FixdePitchmark

PARlance wrote: »

Fair Play so far Jimmy, the one advantage you have, and others seemed to have missed it is that, if you have spent you're life working in bars, that will stand as very good training for giving golf lessons.

People coming to you will be just as depressed, just as delusional, ok maybe not as drunk as the lads at the bar. You still need to be a shoulder to cry on or whip them into shape when it's getting embarrassing
I joke, but being a bar manager should mean you have the people skills and business know how to help you out.

I think a lad who could give you a pint whilst giving you a lesson would be a new and much needed new angle on golf lessons. I'd be in on it first.

Like pool - it is easier with one or two pints.

Rippeditup

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think a lad who could give you a pint whilst giving you a lesson would be a new and much needed new angle on golf lessons. I'd be in on it first.

Like pool - it is easier with one or two pints.

I would use that pro no problem...

GreeBo

PARlance wrote: »

Mad to see Hazel Kavanagh from Carr/Spawell Grange on +11 with him... she seems to be the only lady pro on there

FYP!

PARlance

GreeBo wrote: »

FYP!

No need to fix it, she may be a member of the Grange(?) but she is playing under:
Hazel Kavanagh Carr Golf Services
Link:
http://pgaireland.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/pgaireland13/event/pgaireland1374/contest/1/leaderboard.htm

;);)

Jimmymcnulty86

For the interested I played a little bit of pitch nd put nd couple GAA club outings over the years but got given a set of clubs nd started playing around casually with friends for about six months. Then officially joined a club start of 2012, got a handicap of 12, down to 6 last year then 3 this year.
Some great info here, thanks a million people. another reason I posted was to see if I'd be mad going all out for new fitted clubs nd lessons with a top pro over the winter, which I'll be doing now with the encouragement here nd il speak with him.
10over to make the cut around Roganstown, I know the course would be set up tough but that's definitely do able, went to a east of Ireland one day this year to watch nd da course looked brutal nd standard was serious top ameteur level in Ireland must be higher than pga region events?, some top players that played euro/challenge tour events on that irish pga leaderboard though

FixdePitchmark

I admire anybody who puts their name up in lights and plays in PGA events . Because they expose themselves to people going - "look at your man" - "he is a bit of a hacker and can't even do it himself." You do hear that a bit.

Which is rubbish - some of the best teachers in the world are not great practitioners. Also, some of the best teachers in the world - teach long into their 50s and 60s.

I have to say , as someone said above - It is amazing how these lads , teach the same couple of things to the same people all the time - then new people with the same problems , again , and again, and again. So many are so positive - I don't know how they do it. I would have great patience for beginners - but the stuff these guys do - at a bloody drab range - for average money. Genuinely deserves a sainthood - knighthood.

Grip
Posture
Weight Transfer
Alignment
Release

Again - and Again and Again. :):D:P:mad::(:eek:

Imagine - having to teach somebody like me golf - God hep them.

Some are a bit into themselves - love to show you how good they are - say the same cliches - have that fake public persona.

But 9 out of 10 are sound.

Ok there are some great jobs in golf - well paid. But - I'd imagine they are few and far between. And far too many people for them.

ssbob

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I admire anybody who puts their name up in lights and plays in PGA events . Because they expose themselves to people going - "look at your man" - "he is a bit of a hacker and can't even do it himself." You do hear that a bit.

Which is rubbish - some of the best teachers in the world are not great practitioners. Also, some of the best teachers in the world - teach long into their 50s and 60s.

I have to say , as someone said above - It is amazing how these lads , teach the same couple of things to the same people all the time - then new people with the same problems , again , and again, and again. So many are so positive - I don't know how they do it. I would have great patience for beginners - but the stuff these guys do - at a bloody drab range - for average money. Genuinely deserves a sainthood - knighthood.

Grip
Posture
Weight Transfer
Alignment
Release

Again - and Again and Again. :):D:P:mad::(:eek:

Imagine - having to teach somebody like me golf - God hep them.

Some are a bit into themselves - love to show you how good they are - say the same cliches - have that fake public persona.

But 9 out of 10 are sound.

Ok there are some great jobs in golf - well paid. But - I'd imagine they are few and far between. And far too many people for them.

Not going to get into it but if your club is paying you €30k a year to be the pro then you are topping that up with lessons (Say average 7 lessons a week @ €30) thats another €11k "Cash Money"( A very conservative estimate for most pro's) and then you are probably getting a small mark-up on the pro shop items so that could be another €5k a year. I know €45-€50k doesn't let you live like royalty but for doing something you love and having a fair chunk of that under the table its a decent living!

mister gullible

ssbob wrote: »

Not going to get into it but if your club is paying you €30k a year to be the pro then you are topping that up with lessons (Say average 7 lessons a week @ €30) thats another €11k "Cash Money"( A very conservative estimate for most pro's) and then you are probably getting a small mark-up on the pro shop items so that could be another €5k a year. I know €45-€50k doesn't let you live like royalty but for doing something you love and having a fair chunk of that under the table its a decent living!

Lots of good pros about and very few clubs paying retainers and providing shop facilities.... It's a tough game at the moment.

mister gullible

Jimmy, getting down to 3 so quickly is very impressive. If your handicap is 4 or lower you can apply to be an assistant pro. You need to get a pro who will take you on (hopefully impressing him with your attire, manner and enthusiasm) and you will have to play a playing test at designated date and venue. I think you would need to go round in something like 5 over or less for each round (with the pressure on - if you don't make the test you retry somewhere else, failing that you wait for another year).
You will spend the next couple of years learning interesting technical, coaching, and shop management (with some trips to the belfry for tuition and tests) plus lots of very boring sitting around minding the shop and answering the phone all for very little money.
To make money playing on the Irish PGA domestic events you would need to be a seriously good player - a good bit better than your current handicap but you could conceivably get there with practice. You still won't make much playing only in Ireland. To succeed on anything above Irish domestic level you would need huge talent and ability (realistically playing to + handicap in your teens). When you are qualified you will probably have the best chance of making money as a teacher. This means finding a venue, club or driving range that will let you teach there (other pros may already have the handy venues tied up). It would then take a lot of time, effort and teaching ability to build up a good reputation and clientele.
Bottom line, you can do it if you really want to but it takes a lot of time and hard work. If you succeed you could have a great occupation, I would have liked to have been a teaching pro myself if I had only thought of it 30 odd years ago!
Go out and ask a few pros, don't worry about being laughed at, (the ones that laugh are the ones to avoid). If you don't ask, you won't get. First step is getting an offer.

Jimmymcnulty86

Just reading about Simon Thornton online. Knew he won on tour this year but didn't realize he only took up the game in his 20's nd was a 7 handicap about 10 years ago. Anybody know much or ever see this guy playing??, some achievement.
Some more motivation for my golf dream:)

Rippeditup

Jimmymcnulty86 wrote: »

Just reading about Simon Thornton online. Knew he won on tour this year but didn't realize he only took up the game in his 20's nd was a 7 handicap about 10 years ago. Anybody know much or ever see this guy playing??, some achievement.
Some more motivation for my golf dream:)

Followed him at the Irish open, he apparently had a weak short game and just concentrated on it and developed it into his biggest asset. Nice player who could move on aftet a strong year

ssbob

Jimmymcnulty86 wrote: »

Just reading about Simon Thornton online. Knew he won on tour this year but didn't realize he only took up the game in his 20's nd was a 7 handicap about 10 years ago. Anybody know much or ever see this guy playing??, some achievement.
Some more motivation for my golf dream:)

Rippeditup wrote: »

Followed him at the Irish open, he apparently had a weak short game and just concentrated on it and developed it into his biggest asset. Nice player who could move on aftet a strong year

Watched him on the range in Killarney 2 years ago, he looked as if he had a massive hangover, was slugging back a coffee and proceeded to shank his first 2/3 shots:P But got it together after that and looked like he had a nice swing!

Think he was born and grew up in England, not sure why he declared for Ireland?