Norwegian in DUB

suerte

moving their Ops to DUB

a few new DUB based jobs here:

http://www.norwegian.com/about-norwegian/jobs-in-norwegian/

BonkeyDonker

suerte wrote: »

moving their Ops to DUB

a few new DUB based jobs here:

http://www.norwegian.com/about-norwegian/jobs-in-norwegian/

Only the long-haul stuff I believe. Still jobs are jobs.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/lowcost-norwegian-to-launch-longhaul-flight-service-based-in-ireland-29670162.html

Something about it at the link above.

Locker10a

I cant say im proud of the reasons behind the move to Ireland and their desire to be registered under Irish Law

Tenger

Locker10a wrote: »

I cant say im proud of the reasons behind the move to Ireland and their desire to be registered under Irish Law

Ireland has become the aviation equivalent of Liberia or Panama.

Am surprised the EU is allowing this, as IAA operate under EU-Ops. While Norwegian are doing nothing illegal I would think the EU would not like the possible follow-on from this move.

Tabnabs

Tenger wrote: »

Ireland has become the aviation equivalent of Liberia or Panama.

As someone who has worked in the shipping industry, I find that statement highly insulting to Ireland. I struggle to understand how Ireland's aviation credentials are any different for its FDI approach? Can you back up your statement with any facts outlining how Ireland has a record of consistent poor safety standards, an aged and outdated fleet with substandard working conditions for employees?

Fuseman

Does this mean we may be getting the Dreamliner into Dublin on a regular basis?

bombs away

I'm curious as to how the IAA are getting away with this, surely the norwegian aviation authority are up in arms over it

zone 1

can we go across the pond cheap thats all i care about and safe. who care what reg the plane is...

Locker10a

Tabnabs wrote: »

As someone who has worked in the shipping industry, I find that statement highly insulting to Ireland. I struggle to understand how Ireland's aviation credentials are any different for its FDI approach? Can you back up your statement with any facts outlining how Ireland has a record of consistent poor safety standards, an aged and outdated fleet with substandard working conditions for employees?

He is not referring to sub standard safety standards or Irish airlines having old planes etc. but it is true that the only reason Norwegian want an Irish AOC is because it will allow them to hire pilots and crew from abroad! As in outside the EU and pay them peanuts! Thailand was mentioned

mooseknunkle

Fuseman wrote: »

Does this mean we may be getting the Dreamliner into Dublin on a regular basis?

Etihad will be using a 787 on the DUB-AUH route

Tenger

Tabnabs wrote: »

As someone who has worked in the shipping industry, I find that statement highly insulting to Ireland......

I was referring to Ireland being used as a flag of convenience in order to facilitate Norwegian circumventing the labour laws of its home country. I have no knowledge of Liberia/Panama being known for lax safety records or outdated vessels in the shipping industry.

Ireland has a very good safety record in aviation. But as an example...Ireland does not have its own aviation restrictions on flight hours, they use the EU minimums as their own. Whereas the UK have their own limits which are actually above the EU minimums.

Fuseman wrote: »

Does this mean we may be getting the Dreamliner into Dublin on a regular basis?

No. This is purely an administrative HQ to allow Norwegian AS to claim that their longhaul operation is not a Norwegian company. Flight operations will be Asia-Norway, Norway/UK-USA

zone 1 wrote: »

can we go across the pond cheap thats all i care about and safe. who care what reg the plane is...

And sadly most people will have this attitude until their own employer try to pull a similar stunt on them.

calibratedtool

Another Airline will do this shortly with another in early talks. Both for different reasons to Norwegian though.

Razor44

i take it they will be much like Transareo? EI reg planes but no need to actually Fly to or from here to get what they need? or did i hear it differently that NAX will have to base aircraft in Dublin?

Tenger

Razor44 wrote: »

i take it they will be much like Transareo? EI reg planes but no need to actually Fly to or from here to get what they need? or did i hear it differently that NAX will have to base aircraft in Dublin?

Transaero (and Aeroflot) have EI-xxx registered aircraft as Russian law stipulates that the actual owner of aircraft determines the registration. I thin Italy has a similar rule, as many Alitalia/Air Italy aircraft are EI- reg'ed.

Most leased aircraft operate under the reg of the country/airline that they are operating for. EG. EI lease approx 40% of their fleet (as per EI fleet page) but all are reg'ed in sequence with the EI wholly owned aircraft. (prob not a great example with so many leasing firms located here!!)

bk

Locker10a wrote: »

He is not referring to sub standard safety standards or Irish airlines having old planes etc. but it is true that the only reason Norwegian want an Irish AOC is because it will allow them to hire pilots and crew from abroad! As in outside the EU and pay them peanuts! Thailand was mentioned

I'm of the opinion that people should be paid a fair wage for the location there are based and living in.

For instance it would make no sense for Norwegian to pay the massively inflated wages Norwegians * normally earn to staff that are based in Thailand.

If they did, those staff would live like kings in Thailand.

It would also make it extremely difficult for a Norwegian (or any European) airline to compete with an Asian airline who could pay their staff Asian pay rates rather then European ones.

Of course if the staff are based in Norway or UK, then their should be paid wages based on the norms of those countries.

* This is a country where the average monthly wage (all industries) is €4370!!, and a pint costs €15

While this doesn't mean Norwegian will operate trans-atlantic from Dublin, it might lead to this happening in the future.

Norwegian have massive expansion plans and they have already shown that they are willing to operate outside of Scandanavia with their Gatwick hub. It wouldn't be so wild from them to operate out of Dublin too if it blunts competition from Ryanair doing transatlantic too.

Tenger

bk wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that people should be paid a fair wage for the location there are based and living in.

For instance it would make no sense for Norwegian to pay the massively inflated wages Norwegians * normally earn to staff that are based in Thailand.....

I would agree with the sentiment....but where does it stop. Next will you have all Asian crews operating on Norwegian shorthaul services......"based" in Thailand but operating a 30 day tour of duty in Europe?

Locker10a

bk wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that people should be paid a fair wage for the location there are based and living in.

For instance it would make no sense for Norwegian to pay the massively inflated wages Norwegians * normally earn to staff that are based in Thailand.

If they did, those staff would live like kings in Thailand.

It would also make it extremely difficult for a Norwegian (or any European) airline to compete with an Asian airline who could pay their staff Asian pay rates rather then European ones.

Of course if the staff are based in Norway or UK, then their should be paid wages based on the norms of those countries.

* This is a country where the average monthly wage (all industries) is €4370!!, and a pint costs €15

While this doesn't mean Norwegian will operate trans-atlantic from Dublin, it might lead to this happening in the future.

Norwegian have massive expansion plans and they have already shown that they are willing to operate outside of Scandanavia with their Gatwick hub. It wouldn't be so wild from them to operate out of Dublin too if it blunts competition from Ryanair doing transatlantic too.

Ya i understand that of course ! And its a complex situation but I just cant bring myself to agree with and justify companies who want to hire Asians for half the price of Europeans and use them to operate flights to from europe and the states! I get what you say about competing with Asian airlines but Norwegian also want to use their Asian crews to operate the European- USA Flights which i think shouldn't be allowed! This will only initiate a race to the bottom among international airlines who will all try this stunt of Hiring from poor developing countries all in the name of greed. Its globalization's ugly side! Much like what has happened to call centers and clothes manufacturing they all relocate to countries where they can pay a few cent a day to staff, who are exploited and at the mercy of their employers.
I hate to imagine what will happen if this trend continues. :mad::mad:

bk

Tenger wrote: »

I would agree with the sentiment....but where does it stop. Next will you have all Asian crews operating on Norwegian shorthaul services......"based" in Thailand but operating a 30 day tour of duty in Europe?

Locker10a wrote: »

but Norwegian also want to use their Asian crews to operate the European- USA Flights which i think shouldn't be allowed!

Either of the above I would be totally against and I believe the EU should bring in strict employment laws to cover these scenarios if those laws don't already exist.

Locker10a wrote: »

Much like what has happened to call centers and clothes manufacturing they all relocate to countries where they can pay a few cent a day to staff, who are exploited and at the mercy of their employers.

Well this is where we have to be careful about criticising globalisation. Ireland has done extremely well from the globalisation of call centers. While we might have lost some english speaking call centers to India (actually many of them have returnedto Ireland, e.g. Dell Business customer support), Ireland has become pretty much the silicon valley of European language call centers. Literally thousands of companies, including massive ones like Google, Facebook, Oracle, Microsoft, etc. have brought hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals to our shores to work in their call centers. Which is very good for the Irish economy.

And these aren't always crappy low paid tech support jobs. I've many friends working in pretty high end call centers (sales, marketing, contract support, etc.) and earning VERY good wages.

I believe Ireland has way more benefited from the globalisation of call centers then from what it has lost.

In fact on the whole, for a very small island on the edge of Europe, we have done extremely well from globalisation. Just look at all the massive multinational IT, Pharmaceutical, Financial services, etc companies based here, generating high quality jobs.

Even the Irish airline industry has done extremely well from this. Even if the planes don't fly from Ireland, all these companies operating out of Ireland are employing people here and often in very well paying high quality administrative jobs.

Ireland has done extremely well from globalisation.

Locker10a

bk wrote: »

Either of the above I would be totally against and I believe the EU should bring in strict employment laws to cover these scenarios if those laws don't already exist.



Well this is where we have to be careful about criticising globalisation. Ireland has done extremely well from the globalisation of call centers. While we might have lost some english speaking call centers to India (actually many of them have returnedto Ireland, e.g. Dell Business customer support), Ireland has become pretty much the silicon valley of European language call centers. Literally thousands of companies, including massive ones like Google, Facebook, Oracle, Microsoft, etc. have brought hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals to our shores to work in their call centers. Which is very good for the Irish economy.

And these aren't always crappy low paid tech support jobs. I've many friends working in pretty high end call centers (sales, marketing, contract support, etc.) and earning VERY good wages.

I believe Ireland has way more benefited from the globalisation of call centers then from what it has lost.

In fact on the whole, for a very small island on the edge of Europe, we have done extremely well from globalisation. Just look at all the massive multinational IT, Pharmaceutical, Financial services, etc companies based here, generating high quality jobs.

Even the Irish airline industry has done extremely well from this. Even if the planes don't fly from Ireland, all these companies operating out of Ireland are employing people here and often in very well paying high quality administrative jobs.

Ireland has done extremely well from globalisation.

You're right ! Ireland has benefited greatly from globalisation there are certain positive side there is no doubt about that hence why i said this was the ugly side of globalisation ! There is another side but its a matter of monitoring situations all the time, its just a complex scenario!

basill

its just a complex scenario

Agreed. Its also why I have no confidence that the muppets in power or those that were in power last time and are waiting for another turn can sort it out.

Look at the continual takeover attempts by FR of AL. We are relying on the Brits to sort out our mess because the muppets here don't want to enact any legislation. Their way of dealing with it is refusing to sell the shares and nudge nudge wink winks to the EU. Meanwhile the EU might get around in the next few years to enacting some legislation which prevents minority shareholders acting in this manner but I suspect we will be waiting a long time. In the meantime AL would have poured around 50m down the gurgler in defence fees.

L1011

I'd like to see what the cost advantages of being able to take advantage of Open Skies are vs. the wage savings, its possible that its a major reason also.

Tenger

MYOB wrote: »

I'd like to see what the cost advantages of being able to take advantage of Open Skies are vs. the wage savings, its possible that its a major reason also.

AFAIK the wage saving is the driver of the Irish AOC. As per statements by the NO CEO saying that Norwegian labour laws were hamstringing their ability to compete in longhaul to Asia.

basill

I would say they will try and route profits through Ireland as well to take advantage of the 12% corporate tax rate. Perhaps even some subsidies along the way from the IDA - who knows. From a companies perspective setting up in Ireland must be very attractive. The dark side is when things don't go so well and you close up shop like SRT leaving job losses and pensions deficits. Ireland as a nation is toothless to pursue. This would never happen in Scandanavia or France.

DieselPowered

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/11/28/more-challenges-at-norwegian-air/#.Updevv1kYhE.twitter

28-Nov-13

More challenges at Norwegian Air

The already-troubled long-haul intercontinental flights launched by Norwegian Air earlier this year now face being grounded, unless Norwegian obtains, during the next three weeks, the Irish airline license it needs to operate them. Norwegian’s initial application for the license was returned by Irish authorities, reportedly because of deficiencies in the airline’s paperwork.

Application returned twice
DN reported that the Irish Aviation Authority, however, has returned Norwegian’s application for an Irish AOC twice, on the grounds the airline had supplied insufficient information.

Norwegian aviation authorities at Luftfartstilsynet in Bodø confirmed the initial rejections that now have delayed issuance of the license Norwegian needs.

DN reported that the Irish authorities wouldn’t accept that Norwegian Air planned to use its same Norwegian key personnel with aviation experience for its Irish operations.

The Irish authorities also made new demands for documentation in flight manuals that haven’t been implemented in Norway.