dairy v suckler enterprise.

Thomas corkery

Dairy v suckler farming.
I am currently thinking of entering dairy farming and getting out of suckler farming.
My father retired from milking in 09 and i took over and built up a suckler cow herd.
I currently work shiftwork 4 12hr days 4 off and 4 nights and 4 off in that rotation. 7-7 start/ finish.
I have 6 unit parlour still in place. Would need to purchase bulk tank and cooler and meal Feed bin. 20000e should cover these costs.
Currently have 46 suck cows and calves and farm would take 45 milking cows.
I would have to employ someone to milk cows when i work and some of my days off also. 15000-18000 should cover this as i intend to milk myself also.
They way i look at is when i work day work 7-7 i don't like the prospect of working that night in a dark cold wet night on a regular basis in suckler farming.
If i went dairy farming i would have a man to cover this and then on my days off outside employment i would have extra to do in form of milking
Q1 is this feasible to employ someone to make more than suckler farming?
Suckler cows roughly breaking even or maybe 100 e profit per head at most.
Its said you make 500e per cow. What price are you getting for milk to reach this and does this cover labour costs
Q2 what does input cost on average per litre of milk produced? Include labour, Feed, fert, silage costs, etc.
Q3 must shares be purchased to supply.Dairygold supplier.
Q4 if i started in april 2015 is it at this point i purchase calved cowas/ heifers. I would like to calve early january to march. Its a pity qotta starts in april as opposed to january.
Q5 am i just working for the taxman?

J DEERE

Your farm labour will cost more than you are budgeting for. You will need them for milking, feeding calves, catching cows in heat, feeding in winter and allocating grass. Have you considered how you will manage at the real busy times such as calving, breeding and silage? I think you would need a good farm manager. Milking 45 cows would only just pay for this labour. Hard to keep a good farm manager if they are not being paid enough or challenged. A good lad that only has part time work will always be on the look out for full time work.

If you are only employing a man to milk then you will be a slave on the days you have off to catch up. You won't have much more than you would have with the sucklers and more headaches. If going into dairy I'd say go full time as with 45 cows you would need to be working at maximum efficiency and getting everything right. No room for error as your margins won't be huge to start off with. Have you looked at ways in which you can improve with the sucklers?

delaval

It takes 40 cows to pay one mans salary, so you can work out the rest yourself.

1. How many acres do you have around the yard?

2. Would you consider putting equity into another dairy operation? Thus could be in the form if cash, land or rearing heifers

3. Do you still have the quota?

bbam

I worked that shift pattern for more than 10 years. And just can't see how it will facilitate running a dairy herd. I see lads who work 8 hour cycle shifts struggling to keep it going.

You'll need your hired labour so much you'll essentially be running the whole thing to pay his wages and have little out of yourself. I'd guess that you'll still be lucky to have €100 a cow for yourself.

Read back on the comments by dairy people on here. It seems near impossible to get dairy labour in to do a decent job. And you'll be relying on this person for maybe 8-10 of the 14 weekly milkings.

Then you have to ask why?
You'll be trying to work 15-18 hour days 4 days a week and then probably 12 hour days 3 days a week catching up. When will you have a life?

Mulumpy

Im working same shift pattern and milking 60 cows. I use a neighbour to milk five times a week and have him for calving in spring. A good reliable person is essential. I dont think what im doing is sustainable in long term but one thing I find is you become an expert at planning and being super organised. The biggest negative for me is reduced time spent with family and clock watching all the time.

vanderbadger

not a milking man now so dont know what im on about before anyone takes my head off and im sure the costs must be substantial but would a robot be an option for this man if he had a good land bank around yard and wanted to keep the off farm job?? or would you need greater number of cows to justify

Timmaay

In this case, it would actually be one of the better options if he was definitely going to start milking. However the big drawbacks are the workload is still there with a robot and a grazing system, he will still be out after his shift to moving temporary fencing. Plus the capital cost is very high, if he can only stock 45 cows, they would want to be fairly high yeilding to produce the milk turnover. (and high yeilders brings lots of management issues themselves). Balance all of this, or say the route of hiring a milker against bad years like 2009, and everything could very quickly unravel, with a big cash input required from the off farm job!

I think what del said makes the best sense, look at options to go into some form of partnership.

Mulumpy

Im working same shift pattern and milking 60 cows. I use a neighbour to milk five times a week and have him for calving in spring. A good reliable person is essential. I dont think what im doing is sustainable in long term but one thing I find is you become an expert at planning and being super organised. The biggest negative for me is reduced time spent with family and clock watching all the time.

bogman_bass

Part time dairying doesnt work. There is a reason I'm in suckler now. What you're describing is pure hell in my eyes

Viewtodiefor

Thomas corkery wrote: »

Dairy v suckler farming.
I am currently thinking of entering dairy farming and getting out of suckler farming.
My father retired from milking in 09 and i took over and built up a suckler cow herd.
I currently work shiftwork 4 12hr days 4 off and 4 nights and 4 off in that rotation. 7-7 start/ finish.
I have 6 unit parlour still in place. Would need to purchase bulk tank and cooler and meal Feed bin. 20000e should cover these costs.
Currently have 46 suck cows and calves and farm would take 45 milking cows.
I would have to employ someone to milk cows when i work and some of my days off also. 15000-18000 should cover this as i intend to milk myself also.
They way i look at is when i work day work 7-7 i don't like the prospect of working that night in a dark cold wet night on a regular basis in suckler farming.
If i went dairy farming i would have a man to cover this and then on my days off outside employment i would have extra to do in form of milking
Q1 is this feasible to employ someone to make more than suckler farming?
Suckler cows roughly breaking even or maybe 100 e profit per head at most.
Its said you make 500e per cow. What price are you getting for milk to reach this and does this cover labour costs
Q2 what does input cost on average per litre of milk produced? Include labour, Feed, fert, silage costs, etc.
Q3 must shares be purchased to supply.Dairygold supplier.
Q4 if i started in april 2015 is it at this point i purchase calved cowas/ heifers. I would like to calve early january to march. Its a pity qotta starts in april as opposed to january.
Q5 am i just working for the taxman?

A.1 yes it takes 40 to 50 cows to pay a man.

A.2 input costs range from 20 to 30 cent per litre depending on different factors. Top farmers are at twenty to twenty two.

A.3 not sure on this one!

A.4 depends when you are selling your own stock . And when your supply contract would begin

A.5 you will be working to pay the man you employ and his prsi. In my honest opinion if you find sticklers hard work now, you will find dairying worse, even with a man and getting a good reliable man will be difficult , what happens if he goes off sick for a week? On the beer one night et etc. all these happen. Can u fill in at short notice? Have you a family? What age group are you? Do you socialise regularly or have hobbies? All these will have to take a back seat as you will not have time for them. Simple as that and after the year when you owe nothing except paying a man you could expect the following

45 cows at 5300ltrs @ 32 cent = 76000

Costs @ 24 cent p l. =. 57000

Profit. 19000

Pay a man . Your rate. 18000

U are left with 1000

What do you think of that?


De laval has a good suggestion for u!

Viewtodiefor

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

A.1 yes it takes 40 to 50 cows to pay a man.

A.2 input costs range from 20 to 30 cent per litre depending on different factors. Top farmers are at twenty to twenty two.

A.3 not sure on this one!

A.4 depends when you are selling your own stock . And when your supply contract would begin

A.5 you will be working to pay the man you employ and his prsi. In my honest opinion if you find sticklers hard work now, you will find dairying worse, even with a man and getting a good reliable man will be difficult , what happens if he goes off sick for a week? On the beer one night et etc. all these happen. Can u fill in at short notice? Have you a family? What age group are you? Do you socialise regularly or have hobbies? All these will have to take a back seat as you will not have time for them. Simple as that and after the year when you owe nothing except paying a man you could expect the following

45 cows at 5300ltrs @ 32 cent = 76000

Costs @ 24 cent p l. =. 57000

Profit. 19000

Pay a man . Your rate. 18000

U are left with 1000

What do you think of that?


De laval has a good suggestion for u!

Forgot calf and cull sales so add 6000 to your profit

visatorro

milk 80 cows and work shift work. good points made about the quality of labour. very hard to get a person you can rely on, ie good with stock, sunday morning! im lucky with whom i have helping me. but to be honest the farm is only carrying itself. the only reason im still milking is that my job isnt overly secure.

blue5000

OP you haven't said anything about the farm structure, how big is it, is it fragmented or all in one? Have you scope to carry weanlings to beef?

I was in dairying, suckling now. TBH there isn't a fortune to be made out of suckling, but with a bit of organisation there is more to be made per hour out of a tidy 45 cow suckler operation than milking 45 cows. Live calves and grass management/ weight gain at grass are the areas to focus on.

Thomas corkery

I have land split in 3 areas. 1 is mile back road from yard which is mainly used for silage with some soft ground for grazing. another block 17 miles away mainly rough but with 20 grazing.
Approx 80 acres around yard but 20 of this is rough.
Quota is sold.
My father milked between 40-48 cows while rearing 40 calves to 12 months 1 mile back rd and 5 suckler cows and calves and approx 5 replacements at 17
mileblock
Im not sure on partnership. don't know anyone near me interested on this and how this could work.
going by replys and financial layout in replys it is not feasible to employ a man
thought about robot but thought this brought a lot of issues ie.
Lazy cows not coming to parlour.milking 24hrs
Cost of machine 60k+ 2k pr yr service + other 20k i previously mentioned.
can cows damage machines.
Cow that milk has to be kept out of tank.
Labour still required for busy spring.
Grazing layout is set up reasonably well to suit robot and grass management would not be too difficult to manage while there is light.
Most practical solution for me is to probably stay at sucklers and try and improve.
Saying that i wonder if the better suckler farmers had no sfp/ subsidies how good are they doing.
The workload is ok its the reward for it is where the ? Mark is.
Would love to go dairying but just doesn't seem practical.
Thanks to everyone for their replys.

Thomas corkery

Thanks for very detailed costs input.
Had it in my head cost p litre was around 18-20cent.

blue5000

Thomas corkery wrote: »

I have land split in 3 areas. 1 is mile back road from yard which is mainly used for silage with some soft ground for grazing. another block 17 miles away mainly rough but with 20 grazing.
Approx 80 acres around yard but 20 of this is rough.
Quota is sold.
My father milked between 40-48 cows while rearing 40 calves to 12 months 1 mile back rd and 5 suckler cows and calves and approx 5 replacements at 17
mileblock
Im not sure on partnership. don't know anyone near me interested on this and how this could work.
going by replys and financial layout in replys it is not feasible to employ a man
thought about robot but thought this brought a lot of issues ie.
Lazy cows not coming to parlour.milking 24hrs
Cost of machine 60k+ 2k pr yr service + other 20k i previously mentioned.
can cows damage machines.
Cow that milk has to be kept out of tank.
Labour still required for busy spring.
Grazing layout is set up reasonably well to suit robot and grass management would not be too difficult to manage while there is light.
Most practical solution for me is to probably stay at sucklers and try and improve.
Saying that i wonder if the better suckler farmers had no sfp/ subsidies how good are they doing.
The workload is ok its the reward for it is where the ? Mark is.
Would love to go dairying but just doesn't seem practical.
Thanks to everyone for their replys.

Lely robot is about 120k, nobody mentions the transponders which are another €100 each. One robot will milk about 65 cows. You still need to be there almost all day especially the first year though, training cows, setting up night and day fences, getting text messages from the robot when there is a problem etc.

With a fragmented farm suckling is easier, just lob off a bunch of cows with their calves and a bull to each block of land, bale the surplus if you have one or juggle the numbers if grass is tight in a block. Is your job fairly secure?

bbam

I'd be thinking your best bet would be to look closely at the "better farms" stuff.. They've made great strides towards improving profitability...

I'm not one for following the herd for the sake of it... but they seem to be on the right track..

Sam Kade

Thomas corkery wrote: »

Dairy v suckler farming.
I am currently thinking of entering dairy farming and getting out of suckler farming.
My father retired from milking in 09 and i took over and built up a suckler cow herd.
I currently work shiftwork 4 12hr days 4 off and 4 nights and 4 off in that rotation. 7-7 start/ finish.
I have 6 unit parlour still in place. Would need to purchase bulk tank and cooler and meal Feed bin. 20000e should cover these costs.
Currently have 46 suck cows and calves and farm would take 45 milking cows.
I would have to employ someone to milk cows when i work and some of my days off also. 15000-18000 should cover this as i intend to milk myself also.
They way i look at is when i work day work 7-7 i don't like the prospect of working that night in a dark cold wet night on a regular basis in suckler farming.
If i went dairy farming i would have a man to cover this and then on my days off outside employment i would have extra to do in form of milking
Q1 is this feasible to employ someone to make more than suckler farming?
Suckler cows roughly breaking even or maybe 100 e profit per head at most.
Its said you make 500e per cow. What price are you getting for milk to reach this and does this cover labour costs
Q2 what does input cost on average per litre of milk produced? Include labour, Feed, fert, silage costs, etc.
Q3 must shares be purchased to supply.Dairygold supplier.
Q4 if i started in april 2015 is it at this point i purchase calved cowas/ heifers. I would like to calve early january to march. Its a pity qotta starts in april as opposed to january.
Q5 am i just working for the taxman?

QUOTE]20k for cooler, bulk tank and meal bin, why don't you buy secondhand. Plenty secondhand bulk tanks for 60 cows for around 5k.