Empire magazine and their fúcking spoilerific reviews

IvaBigWun

Right. Thats it.

The b@stards have ruined another film for me in their review of Gangs Of New York and this time I wont darken their doors again.

What happened this magazine? It used to be the one to go to for all things film. But now Im not sure whats worse, the fact that 90% of their writers give key plot twists away or the fact that Ian Nathan gives films like Superman Returns 5 stars.

Excuse my venting. I really was looking forward to watching the only major film in Scorsese's canon I havent seen yet. I'll still watch it but I'll unfortunately know whats coming.

What are your thoughts on Empire and what are the online alternatives?

poundapunnet

Aw I like Empire, wouldn't read the reviews til after I've seen the film though coz yeah, they are spoilery. It is annoying me how much of a raving Marvel/JJ Abrams fanboy it looks like at the moment but I guess that's what you have to do to sell copies, still find the reviews good.

Little white Lies is a pretty good online alternative, Total Film isn't even as good as Empire

Mickeroo

Gangs of New York is over a decade old though, if they were reviewing it for some reason lately then it's only natural it would be a spoilery review? Fair enough if it was a review from back in the day though.

poundapunnet

Mickeroo wrote: »

Gangs of New York is over a decade old though, if they were reviewing it for some reason lately then it's only natural it would be a spoilery review? Fair enough if it was a review from back in the day though.

Ah even when they're reviewing things just out on DVD/Bluray they can drop some whoppers though in fairness

IvaBigWun

Mickeroo wrote: »

Gangs of New York is over a decade old though, if they were reviewing it for some reason lately then it's only natural it would be a spoilery review? Fair enough if it was a review from back in the day though.

I was a review of the DVD from back in the day

Sideshow Mark

Gangs of New York? Are you posting from 2002? In other news, it was his sledge from when he was a boy and he was a ghost all along.

Who uses magazines anymore anyway? Used to be a regular reader in the nineties, tried the Empire ipad app when it first came out for old times sake and it was rubbish. The mag was also rubbish, too much rewritten press releases and rewritten DVD commentaries and docs passing for articles rather than any actual film critique.

johnny_ultimate

Gangs of New York is eleven years old. You really shouldn't be reading a piece of writing on it if you still haven't seen it at this point. Spoiler culture is killing film criticism anyway - how can someone possibly say anything interesting about a film without delving into it in depth? If you can't enjoy and appreciate a film without knowing the plot details, it's a fairly ****ty film anyway (and Gangs of New York isn't exactly the pinnacle of Scorcese's filmography)

There's plenty of reasons not to read the rag that is Empire, but I'd put inclination towards spoilers right at the bottom.

mikom

Turns out bill wasn't a butcher............ he ran a small green grocers instead.

poundapunnet

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Gangs of New York is eleven years old. You really shouldn't be reading a piece of writing on it if you still haven't seen it at this point. Spoiler culture is killing film criticism anyway - how can someone possibly say anything interesting about a film without delving into it in depth? If you can't enjoy and appreciate a film without knowing the plot details, it's a fairly ****ty film anyway (and Gangs of New York isn't exactly the pinnacle of Scorcese's filmography)

There's plenty of reasons not to read the rag that is Empire, but I'd put inclination towards spoilers right at the bottom.

OP said he was reading a contemporary review of the film though, from when it initially came out on DVD, and Empire can be very guilty of that. It's perfectly possible to give a stars out of five review of a film without giving away plot points or scenes that have much more impact if you don't know they're coming, sure you can enjoy a good film even if you know what's going to happen, but there's no point pretending that the element of surprise doesn't have the potential to make the whole thing much more enjoyable.

You literally have the rest of your life to write in depth analyses of films, but film reviews in magazines like Empire (which I buy most months, there's a lot of **** in there but I usually get 2 or 3 hours of reading out of it I'd say) aren't presented as in depth analyses, they're guides to let viewers know if they're likely to enjoy a film that's new to cinema or dvd, and most people enjoy films more if they don't know beforehand all the moments which the film maker has specifically designed as "woooah" moments of surprise or awe.

IvaBigWun

Sideshow Mark wrote: »

Who uses magazines anymore anyway?

Not me. It was their website.

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Gangs of New York is eleven years old. You really shouldn't be reading a piece of writing on it if you still haven't seen it at this point.

Why not? Free will is awesome

johnny_ultimate

DVD and BluRay is the perfect, perhaps even the best, time for a more in depth review, though: you can safely assume a lot of people will have seen it, and it's still fresh in their minds. There's no need for separate 'blind' reviews for theatrical and home release.

Empire, newspapers and the like have limited space for retrospective criticism: the reality is they won't revisit most films later along the line, unless the films get a distant rerelease. Their home section is therefore the perfect place to delve into the extra depths, and provide readers with the extra analysis that makes for interesting reading. You can't wait for the whole world to catch up. Nothing wrong with flagging the fact there's more detail, but I don't think it should be a prerequisite either.

But then I only tend to read reviews after the fact anyway: a glance at general consensus is all I really need before watching, as I don't feel I can engage with the writer's response or comments without having seen the film for myself.

poundapunnet

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

DVD and BluRay is the perfect, perhaps even the best, time for a more in depth review, though: you can safely assume a lot of people will have seen it, and it's still fresh in their minds. There's no need for separate 'blind' reviews for theatrical and home release.

Empire, newspapers and the like have limited space for retrospective criticism: the reality is they won't revisit most films later along the line, unless the films get a distant rerelease. Their home section is therefore the perfect place to delve into the extra depths, and provide readers with the extra analysis that makes for interesting reading.

Good point actually, but I just wouldn't see that as their remit though, there's magazines like Sight and Sound which a much less commercial or populist class of reviewing and they do go through the plot in fine detail and give a deeper analyses, Empire and Total Film I'd see as for the more casual reader or viewer.

But then I only tend to read reviews after the fact anyway: a glance at general consensus is all I really need before watching, as I don't feel I can engage with the writer's response or comments without having seen it.

Yeah same as, I've a fair idea of what I'm going to like anyway tbh, love reading reviews afterwards though

Mellor

Out of curiosity, what was the spoiler in question

Sideshow Mark

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Not me. It was their website.

Nice one. The Mayo and Kermode podcast is my main source of reviews now. It takes a couple of listens for the humour/in jokes to click, but it's well worth the effort. News and insight I get from a few different websites, screenrant, slashfilm & talkbacker along with here beat any magazine.

johnny_ultimate

poundapunnet wrote: »

Good point actually, but I just wouldn't see that as their remit though, there's magazines like Sight and Sound which a much less commercial or populist class of reviewing and they do go through the plot in fine detail and give a deeper analyses, Empire and Total Film I'd see as for the more casual reader or viewer.

It's certainly true there are places for the deeper analysis. I still greatly value the monthly Sight & Sound for providing me with a high-quality fix of writing about all types of film, and a few web sites can always be relied on.

But - and I'm fully aware this is the idealist in me talking - I'd love if more mainstream outlets gave a bit of space to something more than the standard review: people aren't getting access to top-tier writing (and not just talking about the more academic stuff here) unless they go looking for it. An idea, for example, would be a page devoted in, say, The Guardian or The Ticket's film section every week to give a more in-depth response to important or interesting films playing at the moment, after people had had a chance to check it out. Have it alongside the normal reviews, flag its purpose clearly and give the writer a chance to riff on stuff that isn't suitable for just bog-standard 'stars' reviews. There's a lot of really great film writers out there who have neither the time, space or channels to get anything other than the weekly reviews out there. It would be fantastic if they had the opportunity to get their deeper thoughts out there to a wider audience. The 'should you watch it?' question is probably ultimately the least interesting part of film criticism, and it's a bit of a shame the vast majority of print space is dedicated to it.

FlashD

IvaBigWun wrote: »

What happened this magazine? It used to be the one to go to for all things film.

I used buy Empire round 95-99.......... then I grew up. :pac:

IvaBigWun wrote: »

What are your thoughts on Empire?

It's aimed at an age 17-25 male demographic with a focus on blockbuster, celebrity, cult and a smiggin' of indie thrown in to stay 'classy'.
Haven't read it in over a decade but i'm guessing these days the main centrefold editorials focus on cult, sci-fi, horror and superheroes..... ???

IvaBigWun wrote: »

What are the online alternatives?

Welcome to the Boards Film Forum

krudler

I used to read Empire, got sick of their fawning reviews over average movies because they get set access. They do good features/interviews and I do listen to the podcast as they get quality guests but I'd take all their reviews with a pinch of salt.

jaykhunter

Although they're a nice read I don't bother with Empire or film magazines anymore. I find it ultimately lessens my enjoyment of the film, shaping what to expect (and usually heightening expectations) which I never find to be a positive. These days I just watch maybe the first minute of trailers or videos reviews (usually IGN or Spill) until I've decided I'll see the film. Unlike games, films rely entirely on story/character and hearing too much about it is a bad thing IMO.

poundapunnet

krudler wrote: »

I used to read Empire, got sick of their fawning reviews over average movies because they get set access. They do good features/interviews and I do listen to the podcast as they get quality guests but I'd take all their reviews with a pinch of salt.

Yeah but you can spot those silly fluff pieces for what they are ages off.


I read a lot of high-falutin' film criticism and analysis and I really enjoy just sitting down to have a gander at Empire, it can be very funny, it does get good interviews regularly and there are like 70 pages of reviews so it's not all just mainstream stuff. Plus there's Kim Newman! It's a nice switch-off read that's still about films so I'm happy out! I'm kind of a hoarder anyway so after 6ish years of buying it in print it's getting hard to stop :pac: And my friend's four year old is mad into the Incredible Hulk, Shrek, the Alien franchise and Predator (strange kid tbh) so he just loses his **** any time I bring him over an old copy to read.

CastorTroy

I used to buy Empire monthly, but then they just started to build up unread as they would be doing features on movies that aren't out for months, so by the time I see the film that issue is forgotten about.

Mizu_Ger

I used to buy either Empire or Total Film each month. I stopped because they just seemed to contain some random top 50 list and reviews, which is not worth €6.50. I subscribe to the digital edition of Total Film now as I can get it for about €1.50 an issue, which is very reasonable.

charlie_says

I can't stand people who get really pissed off if they hear something, anything about a film before they watch it. I don't tell them plot details just whether I liked it or not, they seem to believe that it ruins it for them and they have the right to censor your voice as some sort of inalienable right of the viewer, even though they haven't seen it the sanctity of their opinion, which hasn't even been formed yet is very important. Mad. It's up to them not to talk about it/read/censor on the whatever medium, not everybody else.

I don't have issue with people want to be being kept in the dark about something, it's just their bile towards the people who "spoil" it for them, when actually they are the ones being a prick in my humble opinion.

It's worse with TV shows than films though.

krudler

charlie_says wrote: »

I can't stand people who get really pissed off if they hear something, anything about a film before they watch it. I don't tell them plot details just weather I liked it or not, they seem to believe that it ruins it for them and they have the right to censor your voice as some sort of inalienable right of the viewer, even though they haven't seen it the sanctity of their opinion which hasn't even been formed yet is very important. Mad. It's up to them not to talk about it/read/censor on the whatever medium, not everybody else.

.

I know someone like that, anything beyond the most vague description of a film is "spoiling" it. He was whinging that Gravity was "ruined" because he knew they were stuck in space, ehh, it's the entire premise of the film? If you want to go in that blind to something then don't look up anything about it or engage in conversation with anyone about movies. someone was complaining about the ending of The Sopranos being "spoiled" on an AH thread recently, really? hugely famous ending that aired 7 years ago, it's well out of spoiler territory now.

I've seen or read many a famous plot twist or classic movie moment shown on "best of" lists or top 100's or whatever but rarely has it ever diminished my enjoyment of a film seeing it long after the fact.
Once something becomes ingrained in popular culture it's almost impossible to avoid things from well known movies or scenes that become iconic. Hell at this point you could probably make a full length version of Citizen Kane from the amount of references to it The Simpsons have done over the years.

bellinter

Friend of mine nearly lost the spuds a decade ago when I said something along the lines of "Did ya see Neo fighting a million Smith's in the trailer for the new Matrix?" Apparently that spoiled it! He still gets very cranky when discussing something he hasnt seen. Personally spoilers dont tend to "spoil" it for me but each to their own.

Regarding Empire... Barring a brief spell around 2005-2006 or so, I'm a monthly buyer! So as you can imagine the pile is quite big. I'm generally not a hoarder by any means but something about an old Empire is very appealing. Recently picked one out that was nearly 20 years old, with Tom Cruise from Interview With The Vampire on the front!

Anyway, to be honest, despite all this, I dont pay a great deal of attention to the reviews. They gave Only God Forgives 5 stars this year for Christ sake, surely that should have been enough to make you skip that part of the magazine. I'll look at the star rating and the verdict and maybe have a read after I see the film. However, I like a lot of stuff in it, not least the "Masterpiece" collection which has guided me towards several classics I would never have seen otherwise. They also do a lot of good on set articles and the Video Dungeon is good for a laugh.

I'd say that I buy it more out of habit than desire at this stage but still enjoy it. When they give the cinema release 3 stars and then up it to 5 stars when it comes out on DVD, thats the major issue I have! Yes, its a different reviewer, but a joke that they cant just have a consensus.

expectationlost

im getting sick of tired of simon mayos, terry wogan like read outs which are just endless humblebrags about what hot sunny country they are living in and entertains no-one but themselves

i just fast forward that bit, but then miss bits of film talk, a bit of it is okay but not too much

and simon mayo spoiled the big character twist of iron man 3

expectationlost

empire podcast is good, i got sick of empire when they started spending more and more time telling us how close they are with the stars, there's a lot of matey bollox in the interviews, but still worth a listen for helen o'hara's voice/accent