New stopping points for 2, 3, 4 carriage DARTs, why?

Atlantic Dawn

Can someone explain to me what benefit there is in some shorter 2, 3 and 4 carriage DARTs stopping at earlier points in stations than the normal 8 or 6 carriage DARTs do? I've noticed new signage at the stations and as there is no way of knowing what length the arriving DART will be, I am confused as to what benefit there was in introducing them?

From my point of view I can see no benefit whatsoever in the new system...

• Commuters are not aware or have any way of knowing how long the arriving DART will be so this results in a stampede towards the oncoming DART and will soon result in someone going under the front carriage of the train and it's only a matter of time before someone is killed, particularly at peak times.
• More congestion on the first two carriages as everyone who was waiting at this point plus those who were waiting for the train to arrive at it's normal stopping point are trying to get on these carriages.
• Having the train stop at the same point every day is simple to follow, you get at the top of the platform you get on the first carriage.
• The additional congestion in the first two carriages results in them not being able to accommodate wheelchair or elderly users as they are too congested.
• Cost of the new signage they have fitted at each station would I estimate have costed atleast €5k over the network, so much for penny pinching by running smaller DARTs to save the few bob, flush with cash for foolish ideas that don't benefit their customers.

Perhaps I am missing something?

ixoy

I don't understand why they can't indicate the size of the DART on the display since there's obviously room for a message. That makes little sense. I was in San Francisco recently and they'd make announcements as to the size of the next train so that you'd know where to stand.

The idiocy of running these short DARTs at rush hour is another question...

Captain Chaos

Because some people wait at around the mark where the last or 6th car would stop if heading south bound to Pearse for example as the exit for Pearse is at the end of the south bound platform. If a 2 car DART arrives and stops at the very topof the platform people will have to run about 100-200 metres to get to the train.

Also sometimes drivers don't stop at the signs and will stop a 2 car DART right at the top of a straight platform and you see loads of people running the length of the platform to get their train. It's crazy to watch at times.

Captain Chaos

ixoy wrote: »

I don't understand why they can't indicate the size of the DART on the display since there's obviously room for a message.

I was at Pearse a few weeks ago waiting for a North bound DART. The PA sign said the next DART was 2 cars and to move to the front of the platform. Most people didn't take any notice but I walked up to the top and 2mins later an 8 car DART arrived. Gotta love Irish Rail, they don't even know what train is coming next.:D

Atlantic Dawn

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Because some people wait at around the mark where the last or 6th car would stop if heading south bound to Pearse for example as the exit for Pearse is at the end of the south bound platform. If a 2 car DART arrives and stops at the very topof the platform people will have to run about 100-200 metres to get to the train.

Also sometimes drivers don't stop at the signs and will stop a 2 car DART right at the top of a straight platform and you see loads of people running the length of the platform to get their train. It's crazy to watch at times.

But if everyone just took the default 8 carriage stop as a given there would be no problem, the new sytem is just pure confusing, no benefit.

Captain Chaos

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But if everyone just took the default 8 carriage stop as a given there would be no problem, the new sytem is just pure confusing, no benefit.

There is a problem in assuming an 8 car DART all the time. People wait at certain coach points for exiting the station quicker at the other end being very very common and meeting people on the train. A DART platform is around 280 metres long, people who typically wait for car 8 and a 2 or 4 car DART arrives and goes to the end of the platform have to run half the platform to catch the train. I see this happen every day with loads of people having to make mad dashes along platforms.

The new signs are ment to put most of the coaches of shorts trains at the close exits and entry point to that particuar platform for cut down on people missing trains due to having to run the length of platforms. It's very, very common

ongarboy

Exactly. If I'm getting off at Tara or Pearse southbound, I board at back end in Clonsilla but board at the top end if I'm going to Connolly to save platform walking time on arrival. I think northbound short Connolly trains are the worst offenders for seeing the masses having to run to the north end of the platform. I do feel sorry for elderly or visually or mobility impaired passengers in this scenario especially on a crowded platform where commuters are waiting for other trains. Drivers will not see someone struggling to catch their train in the midst of the stationary crowd.

PS - is this numbering (when they actually work) for DARTs only or also for other commuter trains that fluctuate between 4 and 8 carriages?

bikeman1

Having stopping boards in stations, where needed makes complete sense and is one of the best moves IE have done in recent times, it makes total sense.

In every station there is the main congregation area on a platform, and surprise surprise this is beside the platform entrance/ramp/stairs/lift. It is reasonable for a passenger to expect to be able to board in this area. This area usually has all the station furniture (seats,shelter,vending machine,booking office) there.

Having every train power down to the end of the platform, leaving the vast amount of pax wondering is that train stopping here and then tghe delay of people, often elderly, chase down the platform to board onto the last carriage is just silly and un professional.

8 cars usually operate in the peak, and most people get the same few trains in and out of work over the course of the year, and "know" that their train is booked to be an 8 car and accordingly stand in such a position.

In the UK, you have stop boards for various different train lengths, adopting a similar approach. What I do agree is that the train information board should tell passengers how many carriages are on the next train. However I believe it is quite cumbersome with the old displays that the DART has and doesn't recognise automatically what size a train is.

corktina

is it because the video screen is there fro the driver to see the doors are properly shut and it is safe to proceed?

LXFlyer

ongarboy wrote: »

Exactly. If I'm getting off at Tara or Pearse southbound, I board at back end in Clonsilla but board at the top end if I'm going to Connolly to save platform walking time on arrival. I think northbound short Connolly trains are the worst offenders for seeing the masses having to run to the north end of the platform. I do feel sorry for elderly or visually or mobility impaired passengers in this scenario especially on a crowded platform where commuters are waiting for other trains. Drivers will not see someone struggling to catch their train in the midst of the stationary crowd.

PS - is this numbering (when they actually work) for DARTs only or also for other commuter trains that fluctuate between 4 and 8 carriages?

It should apply to 3 and 4 car ICR/Commuter sets as well.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

is it because the video screen is there fro the driver to see the doors are properly shut and it is safe to proceed?

The video screen is where the 8 car trains stop.

By putting these signs up, people in the off-peak, when short trains operate, will know where the train will stop and can stand at or within a reasonable distance of the sign and not have to run along the platform in either direction to get to it.

As far as I know there is an issue with putting the train lengths onto the existing displays as it was not something it was designed for - but I seem to recall hearing that it was something that IE were trying to address.

keith16

lxflyer wrote: »

As far as I know there is an issue with putting the train lengths onto the existing displays as it was not something it was designed for - but I seem to recall hearing that it was something that IE were trying to address.

Exactly, everyone knows these signs were designed to tell everyone that the lifts are out of order in another station.

LXFlyer

keith16 wrote: »

Exactly, everyone knows these signs were designed to tell everyone that the lifts are out of order in another station.

I meant in the sense that it needs an additional field of information for train lengths to be added for each train that isn't in the system already for that to appear automatically.

The lift info is a manual text entry.

corktina

keith16 wrote: »

Exactly, everyone knows these signs were designed to tell everyone that the lifts are out of order in another station.

is that a problem? It seems vital to me that people with restricted mobility would know that info least they become trapped on a platform with no means of exiting.

As regards train lengths, maybe a repeater video screen at another location on the platform would be possible, but surely regular passengers would know the train runs to the end of the platform and if they don't, a simple sign would enlighten them .

Hilly Bill

Stand in the middle and count the carriages as they come in. Even if its a 2 car and the driver decides to play silly wotists and goes right to the end ,then you only have to start walking when you see that he is going to the top, and you will be at the train by the time he stops even if you have a mobility issue.
If he stops in the middle then you only need to step onto the train. the issue is only when people arrive at the platform as the train is pulling in .

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Stand in the middle and count the carriages as they come in. Even if its a 2 car and the driver decides to play silly wotists and goes right to the end ,then you only have to start walking when you see that he is going to the top, and you will be at the train by the time he stops even if you have a mobility issue.
If he stops in the middle then you only need to step onto the train. the issue is only when people arrive at the platform as the train is pulling in .

It can't be very safe to have people of all ages shapes and sizes and differing mobilities running along a platform right next to a train?

murphaph

Sometimes short trains in Berlin stop at the top, middle or bottom of the given platform but the display always tells you which of the 3 it will be. On the sbahn it's graphically with little pictograms. On the ubahn they state something like "short train, stops at top of platform" in words. The train then stops where expected. On the sbahn there are marker boards too and on the ubahn they mark the third rail cover with hatching and text:"short train stopping area".

loyatemu

IME so far (in Pearse)

• the 2 and 4 car darts generally do stop at the sign
• 3 and 4 car commuter/intercity trains do not, they go to the end of the platform.
• sometimes the display tells you that the next Dart is a 2-car.
• sometimes this is correct.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

It can't be very safe to have people of all ages shapes and sizes and differing mobilities running along a platform right next to a train?

They shouldnt be running in the first place and especially next to a train.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They shouldnt be running in the first place and especially next to a train.

For Gods sake, how hard is it to understand...............They wouldn't have to run along the platform at all if the trains stopped where most intending passengers were waiting.

highdef

Captain Chaos wrote: »

A DART platform is around 280 metres long

I really don't think this is correct.....that would mean that you would be able to fit a 14 carriage DART at an average sized platform......I would be thinking the average is nearer maybe 170/180

GTE

keith16 wrote: »

Exactly, everyone knows these signs were designed to tell everyone that the lifts are out of order in another station.

That is unreasonable to say. As stated, aside from manual entry there could very well be a restriction in place regarding what information can be displayed by the signs operating system. That said, I would be more of the opinion that there is a restriction in getting the information to the screen. In other words, getting some kind of automatic system that currently exists to also register train lengths.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

For Gods sake, how hard is it to understand...............They wouldn't have to run along the platform at all if the trains stopped where most intending passengers were waiting.

People wait on platforms, trains stop at platforms so whats the problem? If you are already on the platform when the train comes in then you wont be running. Like i said, stand in the middle and you will be ok. Stand at the ends of the platform and you may have to move a bit sharpish to catch the train.