Extreme Criticism

lahalane

The general consensus on the internet seems to be that Nickelback are shit (I think it's a bit harsh, they've some decent songs.) I'm aware it's probably just something that started off small, became a funny/cool thing to say and everybody jumped on the band wagon, meaning that some people saying it probably have no problem with the band and just want to say something safe that people will like...Kind of like the boring catchphrases on here, three fiddy, yore ma, etc.

Anyways, do you think it's ever fair to call any art form rubbish when it has clearly appealed to a large quantity of people?

Nickleback have had #1 hits and some people say they're useless.

Titanic won numerous Oscars and some people say it's a **** film.

Cristiano Ronaldo is regarded as one of the best footballers in the world but some people say he's over rated.

Ricky Gervais has broken world records with his comedy ventures and some people say he's unfunny.

I'm particularly guilty of doing it. I've said Mrs Brownes Boys is **** but it appeals to some people so would I not be better off saying 'That's not to my taste and I hate it' instead of being overly critical about it? I have every right to say I hate something but to render it talentless can be harsh sometimes.

TL/DR - I know that everyone is entitled to their opinion but are people sometimes unnecessarily extreme in their critique of certain things?

*No need to explain why you think any of the above are ****.

Links234

Is saying something is crap really 'extreme' criticism?

I thought this thread was going to be about tumblr and the folks who go all "DIE IN A ****ING FIRE YOU ****LORD!" for not liking their favourite flavour icecream.

So yeah, lots of people like tumblr for some reason. I hate it. People who like tumblr should have their internet priviliges removed and their computer donated to a library. That extreme enough a criticism?

Wacker The Attacker

Ricky Gervais Fack off. I'd rather eat my own bollocks than listen to that fat mess.

Calling Ricky Gervais unfunny isnt "extreme criticism", it's a statement of fact.

lahalane

Links234 wrote: »

Is saying something is crap really 'extreme' criticism?

I thought this thread was going to be about tumblr and the folks who go all "DIE IN A ****ING FIRE YOU ****LORD!" for not liking their favourite flavour icecream.

So yeah, lots of people like tumblr for some reason. I hate it. People who like tumblr should have their internet priviliges removed and their computer donated to a library. That extreme enough a criticism?

I know it's not extreme but I assumed you would know what I meant by extreme criticism...and it seems you did. Stuff like what you mentioned there, yeah.

lahalane

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Ricky Gervais Fack off. I'd rather eat my own bollocks than listen to that fat mess.

Calling Ricky Gervais unfunny isnt "extreme criticism", it's a statement of fact.

No you wouldn't.

No it isn't.

Wacker The Attacker

lahalane wrote: »

No you wouldn't.

No it isn't.

Yes it is. You could pull better comedy out of your bowels.

Links234

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Yes it is.

No it isn't.

humbert

I think people should be at liberty to express their feelings however they like, just as I feel Nickleback should be allowed to produce woeful music as long as there are cretins out there willing to buy it.

Justin Bieber on the other hand should be thrown down a well. I'm inflexible on that one.

o1s1n

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Yes it is. You could pull better comedy out of your bowels.

And it would still look and sound better than Ricky Gervais.

Artful_Badger

People dont really hate these bands or people they just use them as a focus point for all the things the dislike about what they are. People might not like all the pretty boy, cry baby, overpaid football player thing so they see Ronaldo as the epitome of that and claim they hate him. Same goes for Bieber and all the factory made "artists". They are just lightening rods for criticism of the industry or genre so people ascribe the word hate to how they feel about them and dismiss everything good about them.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

James Blunt seems like a decent guy and gets **** load of flak for being a poor enough musician

The Diabolical Monocle

Never underestimate the scale of bandwagonry.


Coldplay have some great songs too. (vida la vida is one of them)

Every classic rock video has a 15 year old revealing the highly relevant info that he likes Queen but dislikes Bieber, probably due to his somewhat unusually mature discernment for good music, unlike most his age you understand....its both a blessing and a curse.

No Pants

I would consider your examples to be opinion, nothing more. For me, criticism must be backed up. Ronaldo/Ricky Gervais/Titanic is **** because of (a), (b) and (c).

porsche959

I agree with the OP about Nickleback, I don't think they are a very good band but I am a loss to see what they have done to justify the hate.

How come boring trendy art-rock poseurs like Arcade Fire never get criticised?

CrazyRabbit

I'm a ever-so-mildly disappointed with this thread.

No offense intended to anyone.

Sorry.

People call Sarah Jessica Parker - an averagely pleasant looking woman, nothing special but nothing horrific - all kinds of names, making her out to be a pox on the eyes. She's no ravishing beauty but there's no need for the hyperbole used to describe her supposedly horrible ugliness.

No need for the vitriol there at all.

theblaqueguy

I'm against gay marriage

And I get extreme criticism for having that opinion but I don't mind at all because if you have an opinion that goes against the majority of everyone else then you have to be able to handle the extreme criticism

As they say "if you can't handle the heat get out of kitchen'

lahalane

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I'm a ever-so-mildly disappointed with this thread.

No offense intended to anyone.

Sorry.

Blame your own expectations I guess

daveyeh

No Pants wrote: »

I would consider your examples to be opinion, nothing more. For me, criticism must be backed up. Ronaldo/Ricky Gervais/Titanic is **** because of (a), (b) and (c).

Ronaldo is a wealthy, tall, handsome, sucessful athelete with beautiful women all over him. Therefore he is a ****.

Ricky Gervais is a wealthy sucessful comedian enjoying life. Therefore he is a ****.

Titanic is just ****ing ****y ****e.

Gbear

Candie wrote: »

People call Sarah Jessica Parker - an averagely pleasant looking woman, nothing special but nothing horrific - all kinds of names, making her out to be a pox on the eyes. She's no ravishing beauty but there's no need for the hyperbole used to describe her supposedly horrible ugliness.

No need for the vitriol there at all.

There's parallels with that daft tart.. Something Brick, who wrote a piece in a newspaper about how stunning she was and how everyone hated her and was jealous of her otherworldly beauty.

If she was just walking down the street nobody would pass any comment. If you attempt to elevate yourself and portray yourself to be better than you are then people work doubly hard to cut you back down to size.

Nickelback and Bieber are **** musicians who act like they're good - the assault on them is redoubled out of sheer spite because of their arrogance and misplaced sense of self-worth.
There's plenty of terrible bands around. People don't really mind about the ones that have fewer obnoxious fans and keep their heads well below the parapet.

The same goes for Sex and the City because it presented itself as the last word in female culture (fashion and shopping and all that stereotypical ****e) and the actresses were pushed to the forefront of that world.
The "Tranvestite Donkey Witch", as she was referred to in an episode of South Park, being the most prominent and least attractive, took the blunt of the backlash.

Irish Guitarist

I hate the how the term 'overrated' often gets used on the internet. People use it to describe things they don't like rather than using it to describe how something is actually rated.

As an example saying "Nirvana are overrated" doesn't make any sense to me as they're not rated at anything that can be easily defined. Most Nirvana fans acknowledge that (with the possible exception of Dave Grohls drumming abilities) that they weren't great musicians. I've never heard anyone saying Kurt Cobain was a virtuoso guitarist. He himself made no claims to be a skilled musician. People might rate him for the energy of his music and the honesty of his lyrics or they might like the way he screams. It's hard to argue with opinions like that. It brings pleasure to some people and others hate it.

Little Acorn

Candie wrote: »

People call Sarah Jessica Parker - an averagely pleasant looking woman, nothing special but nothing horrific - all kinds of names, making her out to be a pox on the eyes. She's no ravishing beauty but there's no need for the hyperbole used to describe her supposedly horrible ugliness.

No need for the vitriol there at all.

I never got this either, don't find her as even approaching anything I would consider "ugly". She looks perfectly nice to me. Not stunning imo but certainly not 'ugly' at all.
(As an aside I only heard recently that she is actually the blonde witch Sarah in the film Hocus Pocus, generally considered the pretty one in the film I think)

The same applies to Wayne Rooney. He gets some amount of stick for being absolutely hideous, - just looks like an average lad you'd see on the street to me.

gramar

I went to a concert years ago with the missus. There was classical music and a few tenors signing. Not my type of thing but she likes it. When I came out I said it was a load of bolix. She was more than a bit annoyed and she was right to be.

On reflection I was annoyed too as it wasn't bollix. What I should have said was that I didn't like it rather than insulting a perfectly valid taste in music just because I like something else.

There is a huge difference between not liking something and it being bollix and I learned the lesson that night.

lahalane

Little Acorn wrote: »

The same applies to Wayne Rooney. He gets some amount of stick for being absolutely hideous, - just looks like an average lad you'd see on the street to me.

Hah, this reminded me of an argument I had with a girl on a night out who said that Rooney is a '1 out of 10'. Seemed like a ridiculous rating for the poor fellow.

Spike Witwicky

There's no accounting for taste

The Diabolical Monocle

Gervais brought us Pilkington an' that.

I mean thats enough...you know before that I were just knockin about an' that, doin owt, then Gervais come along ... knob at night n that.

Look I can't be doing with writing any more - its stressin me out.

endacl

Saying something is crap isn't criticism. It's dismissal. It's giving an value answer to a question of aesthetics.

Saying something is crap is in itself crap. Except in the case of one direction, who are in fact 'crap'.

rubadub

Candie wrote: »

People call Sarah Jessica Parker - an averagely pleasant looking woman, nothing special but nothing horrific - all kinds of names, making her out to be a pox on the eyes.

+1, I remember a girl I know saying how some actor was a totally ugly bastard, and claimed they could not understand how he was regarded as attractive. The question to these people is if that actor/actress did not exist, and if you friend arrived into the pub with them on their arm as their new boy/girlfriend, would you truly be so appalled that you would take them aside and have a word with them -I doubt it, they'd truly be thinking "jaysus he/she's done alright there".

I think it can greatly do with the roles they play, if they are made out to be the attractive one in a program/film and they are just alright looking they can get a big backlash. Like paris hilton was in a film called "the hottie and the nottie" where she was supposed to be the amazing looking girl. And tori spelling in beverly hills 90210.

Same with hatred for boybands etc, I might not like the genre but by christ there are far worse boyband songs out there than take that released.

The other nonsense you will hear is how the beatles were the equivalent of one direction. As though in 50 years time people will be rooting through their grandfathers collection "discovering" one direction and forming a band, listing them as a major influence, and having loads of respected bands doing cover versions of one direction songs etc.

Same goes for polls here for the likes of heinz ketchup vs chef ketchup, this OTT "it tastes the sweat from satans balls", yet if they were at a BBQ and it was the only ketchup they would gladly eat it. Same with hatred of big brand beers, there are often far worse out there.

Feathers

Maybe the Admins can change all of our signatures to "...in my opinion.", to save us putting a disclaimer around everything we say.

The Dom

Yeah, I think people go overboard with the whole Sarah Jessica is ugly stuff and if that really was her, in that picture that went around which was supposedly her in bed with some guy back in her college days, man she sure looked fine to me.

General General

I have only read the thread title... but I would like to say that I strongly approve of extreme criticism.

Karl Stein

Do you think it's time we crack each other's heads open to feast on the goo inside?

A. yes.
B. No.

Wacker The Attacker

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Ricky Gervais Fack off. I'd rather eat my own bollocks than listen to that fat mess.

Calling Ricky Gervais unfunny isnt "extreme criticism", it's a statement of fact.

No, it's a statement of opinion, taste, or preference.

Enough people pay to see him or make the effort to listen to him for us to reasonably assume that not everyone shares your opinion.

The Dom

Candie wrote: »

Enough people pay to see him or make the effort to listen to him for us to reasonably assume that not everyone shares your opinion.

But couldn't people make the same argument about SJP looking like a horse?

In that enough people have now think it (and indeed started websites about it in fact, see: www.sarahjessicaparkerlookslikeahorse.com) and so isn't it also reasonable to assume that not everyone shares your opinion that she doesn't.

lahalane

The Dom wrote: »

But couldn't people make the same argument about SJP looking like a horse?

No.

rubadub

The Dom wrote: »

But couldn't people make the same argument about SJP looking like a horse?

She does have horse like features, still is OK looking though, you could say some model has a swan like neck, its people going OTT about her being utterly hideous -when as I said before -if she was unknown and introduced you would not be baulking at the sight of her.


Its the OTT nonsense, like in this very thread

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Ricky Gervais Fack off. I'd rather eat my own bollocks than listen to that fat mess.

I don't find Lee Evans particularly funny, but if I was forced to watch him I can safely say my balls would be safe & sound.

poundapunnet

I dunno, obviously there is some accounting for taste but some things are better than others. If you got 500 people together who all listened to a lot of music, listened to lots of types of music, and understood things about how music works, I doubt many of them would say they're Beliebers. I get the point about extreme criticism, I don't literally think Justin Bieber should be killed, but his music is bad, and people who think it's good are wrong.

I watch an average of ten films a week, I'm studying for a Masters in Film Theory, I know lots of people watch and enjoy rom-coms, that they make lots and lots of money and are successful and bring entertainment and joy to people's lives. But I get bored and annoyed almost to the point of tears watching them. Vertigo is better than How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days. That's a matter of opinion yes, but if it's my opinion against that of someone who goes to the cinema a few times a year, I'm inclined to be fairly confident that mine is right. (for the record I quite like Titanic if I'm in the right mood) I'm not saying I'm smarter or better than people than people who like rom-coms, but I objectively have better taste in films.

Paramite Pie

I remember when I was a teenager I dismissively labeled everything as crap because I didn't like it. Now that I'm older I have a (begrudging) respect for movies/music/tv I don't personally like.

But I've noticed some people keep that "teenage" mentality and can't fathom how someone could possibly like something they don't. They're often dismissive of people who do like these things. It's childish.

Interestingly, I've noticed this mentality persists more among hardcore gamers, comicbook fans and people who are really into pop-culture and nerdom in general. AKA people who haven't completely grown up yet and invest an unnatural amount of time caring about things which aren't important in the real world.

theblaqueguy wrote: »

And I get extreme criticism for having that opinion but I don't mind at all because if you have an opinion that goes against the majority of everyone else then you have to be able to handle the extreme criticism

In fairness that's not a matter of taste like an opinion on a movie or book which affects no one else, it's a personal opinion on a civil issue which will impact on peoples lives in a tangible way.

While I wont go off topic on the issue I think this thread is more focused people putting an unnatural amount of energy hating unimportant pop-culture things, like Bieber or Twilight.

Little Acorn wrote: »

The same applies to Wayne Rooney. He gets some amount of stick for being absolutely hideous, - just looks like an average lad you'd see on the street to me.

No one likes an unattractive successful person. FACT.

We don't just look up to successful people, on some level we want to be them. We want to be handsome, we want to be rich, talented etc... So when we see someone who doesn't meet our "standards" doing better than us, we may lash out. It's stupid but humans are judgmental by nature.:(

daveyeh

Foot face?

MJ23

Ricky Bigface isnt funny, and Mrs. Browne's Boys is sh!t.

That's not criticism, it's fact.

biko

Some people think the values they hold are universal and shared by everyone.
This is called the false-consensus effect or false-consensus bias in psychology, an interesting phenomenon indeed.

dd972

Aren't Nickelback fans the people that the nonces bully in prison? :pac:

Wattle

Ever since I was a boy I've loved the Beatles. I thought they were one of the greatest bands ever chock full of wonderful songs and wonderful songwriters but recently the good people of the internet have convinced me that they were actually shit all along. Thank you internet.

lahalane

Wattle wrote: »

Ever since I was a boy I've loved the Beatles. I thought they were one of the greatest bands ever chock full of wonderful songs and wonderful songwriters but recently the good people of the internet have convinced me that they were actually shit all along. Thank you internet.

I think the Beatles were underrated. Frankly, if 99% of the world population thinks they're the best then they're still underrated.

Femme_Fatale

Popular doesn't always mean good though.

That said, some hatred is OTT and seems bandwagon-jumping: e.g. SJP as said. And The Big Bang Theory.

Mrs Brown's Boys though - I mean, it's like a children's comedy show.