Nilan Compact P advice

improv_12

HI,

we are currently building a small house and are researching the heating/hot water options. It is a very well insulated/sealed house and would llike to have a stove and a MVHR.
One option is to instal the Compact P with a back up duct heater and have a dry stove for 'secondary' heating. It would meet the Part L.
I was just wondering if anyone has installed a Nilan Compact P and how they are getting on with it?

Thnaks

Curious Geroge

improv_12 wrote: »

HI,

we are currently building a small house and are researching the heating/hot water options. It is a very well insulated/sealed house and would llike to have a stove and a MVHR.
One option is to instal the Compact P with a back up duct heater and have a dry stove for 'secondary' heating. It would meet the Part L.
I was just wondering if anyone has installed a Nilan Compact P and how they are getting on with it?

Thnaks

Wondered if you got any more feedback on the Nilan compact p ?

improv_12

Hi Curious Geroge,

Sorry about not replying to PM - its all a bit hectic. We have gone with the Compact P but the house is still being built and not ready for the installation. Are you considering the system?

Curious Geroge

improv_12 wrote: »

Hi Curious Geroge,

Sorry about not replying to PM - its all a bit hectic. We have gone with the Compact P but the house is still being built and not ready for the installation. Are you considering the system?

Considering but we're a 3100sq ft house and I'm worried that this would not be ideal (we're insulated and airtight but not passive).

Big Dec

Hi Curious George,

I will be installing a Compact P GEO 6kW unit in the next few months.
The first floor ducting has already been installed.
The downstairs ducting will be installed when the floor insulation is put in.
My house is ~3200 sq ft and has will have a very high level of insulation. Should have a u-value of 0.125 for walls & roof and 0.14 for floor.
I am aiming for an airtightness of less than 2m3/(hr.m2).

Thanks,
Declan.

improv_12

...just to give info on our house:

...only 94 sq metres.


...roof : 0.150 [W/m²K]

...walls: 0.160 [W/m²K]

...floor: 0.130 [W/m²K]

hero25

Big Dec wrote: »

Hi Curious George,

I will be installing a Compact P GEO 6kW unit in the next few months.
The first floor ducting has already been installed.
The downstairs ducting will be installed when the floor insulation is put in.
My house is ~3200 sq ft and has will have a very high level of insulation. Should have a u-value of 0.125 for walls & roof and 0.14 for floor.
I am aiming for an airtightness of less than 2m3/(hr.m2).

Thanks,
Declan.

Hi Big Dec,
how is the Compact GEO performing? is it ok to ask for ballpark cost of installation? tnks

Big Dec

Unfortunately still in progress, but hoping to commission in next few weeks.
Between crazy hours at work & trying to source a new plumber, there have been many delays.
Anyway, I'll post more details once system is up and running.

YoungAndBroke

Hi Big Dec, how are you getting on with the Nilan Compact P? I am seriously considering it for our new build

Big Dec

Hi,

I've very happy with the system so far.
I am still playing around with the settings, but feel I am better prepared for next winter.
Just need to get the summer settings fine tuned now. :-)
I'm an engineer myself, so am trying to get a very goof understanding of all the different settings.

I only moved into the house at the end of October last year, so have 7 months under my belt.
I would have no issues with recommending the system.
What version were you thinking of?

YoungAndBroke

Thanks for the reply. The installer i talked to was recommending to go for the geo as the idea is to be going outside for energy as little as possible. And he reckons when you have to go outside, it is going to be cold and the geo is better than the air when cold. It makes sense to me but i am not qualified in this area. How are you finding the power consumption? Is it economical?

Calahonda52

YoungAndBroke wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. The installer i talked to was recommending to go for the geo as the idea is to be going outside for energy as little as possible. And he reckons when you have to go outside, it is going to be cold and the geo is better than the air when cold. It makes sense to me but i am not qualified in this area. How are you finding the power consumption? Is it economical?

Whats the rest of the spec on the house here?
Whats the energy demand calculation that has pointed you towards this solution?
Whats the capital cost differential between the geo source and air source rigs?

YoungAndBroke

"Whats the rest of the spec on the house here?"

Spec on the house is 3,400 sq foot, aiming to achieve the following u-values

Windows = 0.82
Walls = 0.15
Roof = 0.13
Floor = 0.13

And a target airtightness of <1.0ACH. The house is being constructed as block on the flat, externally insulated with 200mm EPS with quinnlites at junctions with the floor and attic insulation so I would hope to eliminate as many cold bridges as possible. After that, we have lots of solar gain with large windows to the south and west of the house plus we are going with a MHRV unit. We are going to install UFH upstairs and down.

"Whats the energy demand calculation that has pointed you towards this solution?"

My provisional BER has my heat demand coming in at 4192 KWh/y and dhw demand as 4375 KWh/y. We had originally spec'd oil condensor boiler with solar panels as when I looked into heat pumps last year, I would have needed some sort of solar in addition to the heat pump to get me to pass the regulations. Seemingly that has changed in the last couple of months and I can now pass the regulations with a heat pump alone which has forced me to take another look at them. I like the idea of combining a ventilation unit with my heating source and Nilan seem to be the best of these. Nibe have a unit you can install with their heat pumps but it works in a DCV scenario and I think it is a new enough setup. It still looks interesting though. Oschner have their Europa mini EWP Solar Boiler but it only works for hot water and again only works in a DCV scenario. In fact, using a heat pump now gets me an A2 versus an A3 for oil and solar. I could probably get to an A2 if I added more solar but not sure if I would have need for it

"Whats the capital cost differential between the geo source and air source rigs?"

I am awaiting costs but from what I can garner, I don't think there is much difference in the price between the geo and air units. I expect the main cost difference will be the higher installation cost of the collector for geo. I don't expect it to come in much cheaper than two separate units but at least it is only one unit and one installer

Big Dec, did you go with a vertical bore or horizontal collector?

Big Dec

I'll need to do some analysis on my electricity cost.
I was on the standard Electric Ireland plan without any discounts until February of this year so the winter heating was more expensive than it should have been.
If I translate these to the SSE Airtricity rates, then this works out at ~€170 per month over the winter months.
I'm told by supplier that first heating season is always more expensive in a new build.
I turned off the UFH completely about 2 weeks ago, so that will probably show in the May bill also.

As is common for a lot of similar systems, my hall was an open zone (always on) but due to the double height nature of my hallway, there was probably too much heat in this area and heat pump was running more than was required.
After consultation with the supplier, I have since made this into a regulated zone & added an automatic bypass valve on the upstairs manifold so that the circulation pump doesn't dead head.
This should make a difference to my heating costs next winter.
The house was probably a lot hotter than required as I got used to the system.
People who came to visit always comment that the heat hit you soon as you walked in the door.
Your body does get used to the heat over time, so my opinion would be to keep is a little on the cooler side.

My back of a napkin projected numbers are as follows...
I'll allow 6 months @ €170 per month and 6 months at €120 per month (probably less in reality as UFH is off).
This gives an average of €145 per month for all heating, hot water, lighting & cooking.
I am hoping that the final number will come in less than this, but I will have to wait until next winter too see what happens.

I have a 3 x 50m boreholes.
Ground in my area consists of very fragmented rock, so it was not possible to drill 1 x 150m borehole & I didn't have room for horizontal collector..
This adds a bit of expense, but I feel that it will be worth it in the long run over A2W heat pump.

Calahonda52

Thanks for the detailed answer, good spec, see below.

YoungAndBroke wrote: »

"Whats the rest of the spec on the house here?"

Spec on the house is 3,400 sq foot, aiming to achieve the following u-values

Windows = 0.82
Walls = 0.15
Roof = 0.13
Floor = 0.13

And a target airtightness of <1.0ACH. The house is being constructed as block on the flat, externally insulated with 200mm EPS with quinnlites at junctions with the floor and attic insulation so I would hope to eliminate as many cold bridges as possible.

After that, we have lots of solar gain with large windows to the south and west of the house plus we are going with a MHRV unit. We are going to install UFH upstairs and down.

So have you made allowance for solar shading if needed?
Overheating from SG in Airtight houses is an issue.

So you are going with a MHVR unit, so the chat about DCV below is not relevant?

"Whats the energy demand calculation that has pointed you towards this solution?"

My provisional BER has my heat demand coming in at 4192 KWh/y and dhw demand as 4375 KWh/y. We had originally spec'd oil condensor boiler with solar panels as when I looked into heat pumps last year, I would have needed some sort of solar in addition to the heat pump to get me to pass the regulations. Seemingly that has changed in the last couple of months and I can now pass the regulations with a heat pump alone which has forced me to take another look at them. I like the idea of combining a ventilation unit with my heating source and Nilan seem to be the best of these. Nibe have a unit you can install with their heat pumps but it works in a DCV scenario and I think it is a new enough setup. It still looks interesting though. Oschner have their Europa mini EWP Solar Boiler but it only works for hot water and again only works in a DCV scenario. In fact, using a heat pump now gets me an A2 versus an A3 for oil and solar. I could probably get to an A2 if I added more solar but not sure if I would have need for it

Am a bit puzzled by the above

"Whats the capital cost differential between the geo source and air source rigs?"

I am awaiting costs but from what I can garner, I don't think there is much difference in the price between the geo and air units. I expect the main cost difference will be the higher installation cost of the collector for geo. I don't expect it to come in much cheaper than two separate units but at least it is only one unit and one installer

What do you mean by two separate units

The geo bit with add a lot to the cost.

Have you had any testing to see will it work or is it just suck and see?

Big Dec

The Nilan Compact P GEO combines HRV, hot water & space heating in the one unit.
This means that you do not need a separate MHRV system.
The Compact P also uses the heat recovery to heat the hot water.

Calahonda52

Big Dec wrote: »

The Nilan Compact P GEO combines HRV, hot water & space heating in the one unit.
This means that you do not need a separate MHRV system.
The Compact P also uses the heat recovery to heat the hot water.

Much obliged, will read up on them.
In a trad MHRV set up the rig is in say the attic, inside the thermal/A/T envelope, with the ducting most likely in the ceiling space.

I get the impression here that the rig is elsewhere with ground floor ducting buried in the floor?

Also Dec, tell us a bit more about the 3 bore holes:
Lined?
piped or open: e.g. one return, two flow?
If piped, length of pipework.
height of water table?
did u have test bore?
etc
Thanks

Big Dec

I'm not 100% sure of all the terminology related to boreholes, so please excuse me if I don't have all of the details correct.

There is a loop in each borehole, and all three loops are joined with fusion welds and buried.
There is no access, as the fusion welds make an access point redundant.
All three are fully grouted with bentonite grout.
My heating engineer spec'd 120m as the requirement for the heating system, but we went with 150m in the end to be fully sure.
I don't have any details of the height of water table & did not have a test bore drilled.

For the Nilan Compact P unit, this is located in my back hall and the ducting for the ground floor inlets buried in the floor insulation.
This gives easy access for changing filters and accessing heat pump.
The ground floor extract and first floor inlets are located in the suspended ceiling & the fist floor bathroom extracts are located in the attic and covered with Isover Metac insulation.
The rafters are also sprayed with ~250mm open cell foam, so the attic should not be a cold space.

Pairc86

Big Dec wrote: »

Hi,

I've very happy with the system so far.
I am still playing around with the settings, but feel I am better prepared for next winter.
Just need to get the summer settings fine tuned now. :-)
I'm an engineer myself, so am trying to get a very goof understanding of all the different settings.

I only moved into the house at the end of October last year, so have 7 months under my belt.
I would have no issues with recommending the system.
What version were you thinking of?

Hi Big Dec,

How has the Nilan system performed for you in the past number of years? Is it worth it?

Summer Performance?
Cold Weather performance?

Maemul1

Hi, also interested how people rate this system. It has been recommended for our new build. Thanks for sharing

rednoggin

Another person here interested in how the Nilan Compact is working for you. There seems to be little feedback out there about them in Ireland/UK which makes me skeptical.

Biker1

rednoggin wrote: »

Another person here interested in how the Nilan Compact is working for you. There seems to be little feedback out there about them in Ireland/UK which makes me skeptical.

These units are designed for moderately sized Passive Houses and may not be suitable for a house that does not meet this standard.