Minimum size farm to be Sustainable!

TITANIUM.

Hower ye Guys.
With all this talk of farm and farmers not making a profit,In your opinion whats the minimum size farm needed to be productive enough to make a profit these days, Assuming the land is at the max stocking rate. With the minimum inputs required to be that productive.
80 Acres? 100? 200? R god forbid more?

bbam

How much profit is the question.
Lots of small farms round us probably making small profits (ours included) but it wouldn't sustain a family.

What size farm to give the average industrial wage as a clear profit might be interesting.

TITANIUM.

bbam wrote: »

What size farm to give the average industrial wage as a clear profit might be interesting.

That would b interesting,
I remember reading somewhere maybe on here that any farm could only expect to make something like 1100 a Hector best case scenario.

farmerjj

that really depends on farmer,some so called smaller farmers make as much or even more than those so called big farmers, all depends on how trifty you are

TITANIUM.

farmerjj wrote: »

that really depends on farmer,some so called smaller farmers make as much or even more than those so called big farmers, all depends on how trifty you are

Ya I agree. I was wondering if theres a min size farm required for a full time farmer assuming he's doing everything spot on?

jersey101

TITANIUM. wrote: »

That would b interesting,
I remember reading somewhere maybe on here that any farm could only expect to make something like 1100 a Hector best case scenario.

average farm in ire is 38ha so thats 41,800, profit...you would only get that dairying

TITANIUM.

jersey101 wrote: »

average farm in ire is 38ha so thats 41,800, profit...you would only get that dairying

Ya twas a best possible case scenario

BalingMad

What type of farming though?

A nice difference between, dairy, suckling, dry, tillage roots etc

TITANIUM.

Jasus lads read the op.
Whatever u think is the most profitable.
Look ill put it this way since im getting more questions and obvious statements then anwsers.
Whats the approx min farm size required to ture a profit while operating the most profitable type r combinations of types of farming. In your opinion?

BalingMad

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Jasus lads read the op.
Whatever u think is the most profitable.
Look ill put it this way since im getting more questions and obvious statements then anwsers.
Whats the approx min farm size required to ture a profit while operating the most profitable type r combinations of types of farming. In your opinion?

sorry my mistake

anyway, if it was that straight forward an answer we'd all be doing it

epfff

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Jasus lads read the op.
Whatever u think is the most profitable.
Look ill put it this way since im getting more questions and obvious statements then anwsers.
Whats the approx min farm size required to ture a profit while operating the most profitable type r combinations of types of farming. In your opinion?

There is more to it than just acres
You also have to take into consideration the set up and access to cash

tommy5678

how much would it cost to build a slatted house for 50 sucker cows. spring calveing

Muckit

tommy5678 wrote: »

how much would it cost to build a slatted house for 50 sucker cows. spring calveing

Well good man Tommy!!!!!

tommy5678

muckit thats a **** answer. go clear off now

epfff

tommy5678 wrote: »

how much would it cost to build a slatted house for 50 sucker cows. spring calveing

4 bay double with lie backs
Ball park70 k all in

loveta

Alot depends on the farm itself am in the north west on heavy ground dairying so it will take more ground than in better parts of the south but around here round the 100-150 acre s depending on the guy running it

3 the square

loveta wrote: »

Alot depends on the farm itself am in the north west on heavy ground dairying so it will take more ground than in better parts of the south but around here round the 100-150 acre s depending on the guy running it

spot on there loveta depends on person running it see lads on 50 ac of bog and knocking out serious milk other lads 150 ac of limestone land and cant seem to get going.

Timmaay

loveta wrote: »

Alot depends on the farm itself am in the north west on heavy ground dairying so it will take more ground than in better parts of the south but around here round the 100-150 acre s depending on the guy running it

If you can contract rear the heifers, and buy in winterfeed (be that silage maize or wholecrop), then likes of 60 good acres would hold up to 75cows, and should make you a tidy living, once you are a decent operator and don't need to borrow too much. About the utter minimum you could go bar you have a feedlot ha, and even that would be more likely to be making a loss than a profit ha.

freedominacup

Acres don't come into it much. Turnover is important. At the moment if your not doing 150K as a minimum you will find it very difficult to make a full-time living from any enterprise sep if you have a long term goal of remaining viable as a full-time farmer. If you are just marking time until retirement a good bit less would do you but you will be living off depreciation. The 150k is a moveable feast depending on efficiency and enterprise. It's almost certainly not enough in a tillage operation on a lot of rented ground with significant machinery repayments in the mix whereas an established dairy farm with low borrowings on owned land would probably be throwing off enough cash to make this time of the year a headache with tax bills.

Two things are true about turnover though they are contradictory in a lot of ways,

"Turnover is vanity and profit is sanity" is one and the other is that

"Quantity has a quality all of it's own".

jfh

freedominacup wrote: »

Acres don't come into it much. Turnover is important. At the moment if your not doing 150K as a minimum you will find it very difficult to make a full-time living from any enterprise sep if you have a long term goal of remaining viable as a full-time farmer. If you are just marking time until retirement a good bit less would do you but you will be living off depreciation. The 150k is a moveable feast depending on efficiency and enterprise. It's almost certainly not enough in a tillage operation on a lot of rented ground with significant machinery repayments in the mix whereas an established dairy farm with low borrowings on owned land would probably be throwing off enough cash to make this time of the year a headache with tax bills.

Two things are true about turnover though they are contradictory in a lot of ways,

"Turnover is vanity and profit is sanity" is one and the other is that

"Quantity has a quality all of it's own".

Some answer for that hour of the morning. ;-) The farming forum is probably the one that's active at that hour.

Mulumpy

You'll make lots of money out of farming if ya have a laying hen to keep the house going.

20silkcut

There are vegetable and horticultural farmers who are making comfortable livelihoods off 10 acres and less.

Really this question is in the "how long is a piece of string" category.

It is without doubt that the opportunity to make a living on smaller pieces of land has been squeezed over the last 40 years though.

There were a lot more farmers around 40 years ago working dairy farms etc under 50 acres.
Their children got educated and deserted those size farms as any job with a wage gave a better lifestyle than their fathers had.
But still you could rear large families comfortably on such farms back in the day.
Where I am living(north Tipp area) I do not know of any farmer currently milking less than 40 cows.
I have a sister married up the country and she has a neighbour milking 20 cows and seems to be the finest.

bbam

Second page of replies and no mention of having a good SFP.
The thing that keeps 90% of beef farms going.

onyerbikepat

bbam wrote: »

Second page of replies and no mention of having a good SFP.
The thing that keeps 90% of beef farms going.

Because most of the posters are in milking. Wait till 2015 comes and it might be a different story.

F.D

So should the question be
With no SFP
What acerage is required for each farming type to make a decent living
EG dairy farming 100 acres
Tillage 250 acres
Beef 200 Acres ?

simx

epfff wrote: »

There is more to it than just acres
You also have to take into consideration the set up and access to cash

I agree there is more to it than acres, land quality would be a big factor no point conparing 100acres of marshy bog to 100 limestone

JohnBoy

too many variables.

lets say 60 inherited acres with a good setup on the best of land and an efficient dairy farmer could probably turn a happy living with a few pound available to reinvest, but if the money had to be borrowed to buy, develop and stock it, lord knows how much land would the same efficient dairy farmer need to be able to pay off the bank never mind have a living for themselves afterwards.

JessePinkman

Well how many animals would you need to make a living instead? Beef farming?

Timmaay

JessePinkman wrote: »

Well how many animals would you need to make a living instead? Beef farming?

Too hard a question to answer either ha! If you get lucky one year, buy aload of cheap weanlings, have good weather, and then sell them off when the market happens to be much better the next year, you might make a nice few quid, other years you could end up selling them less than what you paid!!

JessePinkman

Timmaay wrote: »

Too hard a question to answer either ha! If you get lucky one year, buy aload of cheap weanlings, have good weather, and then sell them off when the market happens to be much better the next year, you might make a nice few quid, other years you could end up selling them less than what you paid!!

yes i understand the variables but say with SFP and all in would a man have 20k at the end,Full time farming of course,on say about 80 acres

rancher

JessePinkman wrote: »

yes i understand the variables but say with SFP and all in would a man have 20k at the end,Full time farming of course,on say about 80 acres

According to teagasc, a drystock farmers SFP is reported to be 100% of his income,
So in answer to your question, your SFP would have to be near enough to 20k

RobertKK

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Because most of the posters are in milking. Wait till 2015 comes and it might be a different story.

I think the people who have been in dairying for a lot of years now, know you get years like 2007 and 2013, then others like 2009.

It can be a feast or a famine.