Small work issue...

ManOfMystery

I usually reply to these threads rather than post new ones, but having a small dilemma at work at the moment and would appreciate some perspectives on it. It's nothing major at all and I'm certainly not losing sleep over it. I'll try and keep it to the point .........

I work in a senior technical role for a large global organisation.

One of our directors (Boss A) has recently taken on extra responsibility for our offices in another country. He wants to spearhead an initiative in that office which would involve a fair amount of input from me, and which would mirror an initiative we carried out very successfully in our own office a number of years ago.

To carry this out, he needs to present some figures to an even more senior figure (Boss for approval. He has asked me to put the figures together, but wants me to omit and change a few to present the whole thing in a more favourable light. Put simply, the costs he wants me to present will only show around 30% of the true cost. To do this will mean removing non-capital costs, and removing intangible costs relating to staff time, etc. It's unlikely these true figures would come to light for some time, and he's of the opinion that the success of the whole initiative at that point would basically erase any problems created by our figures now. It's not likely to be anything that would ever amount to a disciplinary or the like either - we could simply plead ignorance.

My dilemma is this. On the one hand, I have no wish to put my name on a document with 'doctored' figures which will be presented to a very senior figure within our organisation. Asides from any risk to my own position, I don't think it's a very honest or ethical approach, and pleading ignorance down the line would be akin to us admitting incompetence.

On the other hand, I have virtually no interaction with Boss B (and am unlikely to have any in future) whilst I deal with Boss A on a daily basis and have no desire to fall out with him either.

I get on OK with Boss A for the most part - had a few issues years back with him questioning my capabilities, but I had strong backing from other staff and it turned out to be an issue of favouritism with him wanting another member of staff to become a senior. I've proven myself ten times over since. However, Boss A is the kind of guy who's like a dog with a bone when it comes to a new project. He's very, very invested in getting this initiative approved, so if I'm unwilling to co-operate it's going to create tension on an almost daily basis.

For the record, there's no-one else in a senior level who I could really talk to about this. The onus is on me to say yes or no.

Animord

Can you send the spreadsheet (I am guessing) to your boss with a note (on email) saying 'these figures do not include x, y and z'. He can then use what he wants and you are covered as you have told him and can produce the email at a later date?

Neyite

I had something similar on a much smaller scale where my immediate line manager was asking me to transfer figures from an automated report to an excel editable version and instructed me to omit certain figures that would make it look like he was making bigger savings than he actually was. His job was actually to make those savings so it was nothing but a self-serving exercise.

Firstly, try and get as much in writing /email as possible. As in "please find attached figures with X omitted as requested". What he does with that afterwards is his business, but you can demonstrate that you sent what you were asked to send. So put the whole figures together first, send, then when you are told its the "wrong" one you sent him, resend the edited one. Even better if he has replied to the original email. If he instructs you verbally, drop an email with a query, but word in such a way that shows you following up from a verbal instruction "Hi Bob, I've removed X staff costs as you asked, do you need anything done with Y?"

Save all these emails.

That way, when the issues are discovered and if he tries to blame you for shoddy paperwork, you have a proven paper trail of instruction.

Merkin

I guess it depends who the buck stops with ultimately. I've worked in business a long time and I'm as straight up and direct as they come, you sound like you are too which in my own experience is pretty rare tbh - the bullsh1t you're referring to in your post goes on wholesale.

Why do you specifically have to collate the figures? Is this normally something you do? Surely the budgetary stuff should be dealt with by Boss A only? Do you think he is trying to pull a fast one but ultimately have it so that you're name is beside the figures?

Merkin

Neyite wrote: »

I had something similar on a much smaller scale where my immediate line manager was asking me to transfer figures from an automated report to an excel editable version and instructed me to omit certain figures that would make it look like he was making bigger savings than he actually was. His job was actually to make those savings so it was nothing but a self-serving exercise.

Firstly, try and get as much in writing /email as possible. As in "please find attached figures with X omitted as requested". What he does with that afterwards is his business, but you can demonstrate that you sent what you were asked to send. So put the whole figures together first, send, then when you are told its the "wrong" one you sent him, resend the edited one. Even better if he has replied to the original email. If he instructs you verbally, drop an email with a query, but word in such a way that shows you following up from a verbal instruction "Hi Bob, I've removed X staff costs as you asked, do you need anything done with Y?"

Save all these emails.

That way, when the issues are discovered and if he tries to blame you for shoddy paperwork, you have a proven paper trail of instruction.

I was going to say this as well. That if MoM finds himself having to collate these figures, he sends them on with an email saying "please finds figures with requested amendments".....I'd leave a paper trail for everything and implicate Boss A at every opportunity.

wallycharlo

Am also in a relatively senior technical managment position myself for a large org.

OP, I would strongly advise you not publish something which you know yourself is wrong, and if your boss is putting pressure on you to do this then he is frankly a pr!ck. If I am getting you right here, then this boss is asking you to effectively hide 70% of the potential costs? Figues will usually get massaged to some degree etc, but do it to this degree and you are leaving yourself open to accusations of blatent dishonesty, or at best, as you mentioned yourself, gross incompetency.

I would down with him and frankly tell him that you do not feel comfortable doing this.

ManOfMystery

Thanks for the replies.

First off, Boss A is as crafty as they come, so he's done nothing over email. Every conversation has been in phone or in person, so there's no trace of this. Even if I send an email with the spreadsheet saying "Here are the figures with the requested amendments, all Boss B will ever see is the spreadsheet itself.

Merkin wrote: »

I guess it depends who the buck stops with ultimately. I've worked in business a long time and I'm as straight up and direct as they come, you sound like you are too which in my own experience is pretty rare tbh - the bullsh1t you're referring to in your post goes on wholesale.

Why do you specifically have to collate the figures? Is this normally something you do? Surely the budgetary stuff should be dealt with by Boss A only? Do you think he is trying to pull a fast one but ultimately have it so that you're name is beside the figures?

It's a responsibility of my job, I'm the one who has to do it unfortunately.

wallycharlo wrote: »

Am also in a relatively senior technical managment position myself for a large org.

OP, I would strongly advise you not publish something which you know yourself is wrong, and if your boss is putting pressure on you to do this then he is frankly a pr!ck. If I am getting you right here, then this boss is asking you to effectively hide 70% of the potential costs? Figues will usually get massaged to some degree etc, but do it to this degree and you are leaving yourself open to accusations of blatent dishonesty, or at best, as you mentioned yourself, gross incompetency.

I would down with him and frankly tell him that you do not feel comfortable doing this.

Yeah, 70% is a lot to hide. But only 30% of the costs would actually involve any tangible financial input from our company, the rest will be intangible things like time costs and such. He could probably get away with it.


I was erring on the side of simply saying 'no' and telling him I'm really not comfortable with it, so I'm glad that the replies seem to suggest that would be the best approach. It would be pretty easy to just do it and I don't think there would be massive fallout, but if I do it once then who knows what he'll ask for next time.

Czarcasm

OP I've pulled some shady strokes in my time, stepped on toes and bent rules here and there to get things done under pressure with various projects I've been involved in, but your boss is truly taking the piss tbh.

There is no way in this wide earthly world you would be able to hide that sort of productivity off the books. It always shows up somewhere else. In your case as you've acknowledged yourself - it's going to show up mid-way through the project when it's under way, and no stakeholder likes to see that sort of a sudden spike in resource demands no matter what the level of end goal efficiency achieved.

The project just isn't feasible if you need to hide that much in the initial phase in order to justify it's undertaking.

iusedtoknow

I manage a senior technical team (as a solution owner if you will). This is pretty (read very) unethical. I can see it from the other side, but in a different way. I have just finished my budget for next year, and asked for 20% more than I need. I know I won't get what I requested, however by doing this, I'll be able to negotiate down to my true needs and costs.

However, hiding 70% of true cost is unethical and the fact there is no paper trail shows he know's it. Send the email with the body as you said it ("with the requested ammendments") and go from there.

I worked in email admin in my early days. Some tips for you, if you think that boss b will only see the spreadsheet.

Keep the original email with the timestamps
Find a way to keep this original message headers. This will allow your email admins (within reason) to trace it should it ever be needed.

helimachoptor

Just to echo what is said above.
Send the file and quite cleary state in the mail body and on the file that XYZ is not included as per the request.

Again.. having seen similar stuff in the past if it goes pear shaped and soem finance guy figures it out, they will come looking for boss A and he wont skip a beat when he points them your direction as you will have been the expert.

Is there a way to get someone from finance involved in this? Tell the boss you need them to verify your figures?

Ickle Magoo

Hey M of M,

There is a dedicated forum for Work Problems. If you think you might get more/more relevant advice there give me a shout & I'll move this thread over.

ManOfMystery

It's ok, I'm happy with the advice here thanks

I think I'll go with the email suggestion. I'll do the figures he wants, but will make it abundantly clear in my email that they've been 'amended as requested, and do not account for X/Y/Z'. Luckily my technical role also covers a lot of IT Admin so I have no problem keeping copies of original headers or showing the mail history if he decides to delete it down the line.

Sad that it has to come to that level of self-protection when we should be 'working together', but c'est la vie .............

thanks all

Dixie Chick

OP, I don't know. Having been in this position but in a different capacity a few times then I know what you are feeling. The thing is, if the initiative was very successful previously, why such the need to hide 70% of the costs? Is it his own sword he will fall on? Remember, you are senor as well, is your reputation at risk here, whether or not you have a email disclaimer?

GarIT

I'd report boss A to boss B, hopefully boss A would be sacked and you become boss A.

ManOfMystery

Dixie Chick wrote: »

OP, I don't know. Having been in this position but in a different capacity a few times then I know what you are feeling. The thing is, if the initiative was very successful previously, why such the need to hide 70% of the costs? Is it his own sword he will fall on? Remember, you are senor as well, is your reputation at risk here, whether or not you have a email disclaimer?

The initiative was successful in our own office, but the environment in the new office is quite different so there's no guarantee it will succeed there. I know I'm sounding vague but without getting too technical, it's a very big software rollout which depends hugely on staff accepting it and using it 100%.

GarIT wrote: »

I'd report boss A to boss B, hopefully boss A would be sacked and you become boss A.

LOL, a nice thought but it would never happen

GarIT

ManOfMystery wrote: »

LOL, a nice thought but it would never happen

I know

Personally though, I'd put my own integrity and ethics before any boss though. I'd probably let boss B know that boss A want's you to hide costs.